How close are you to your target word count?

[Coco82]

How close are you to finishing your manuscript, your target word count? I'm aiming for 60,000 words and have just about 30,000. Good luck to all.

[black winged fighter]

Having a set word count doesn't seem to work for me. I usually just let the story dictate the length/count, and then do editing at the end.

[Mistook]

As of yet, I've not counted the words. I work with each chapter as a separate Word document, all thrown together in a folder. I've never bothered to count the words in a single chapter - being that they are constantly under construction - and as for the WIP as a whole, I have absolutely no idea how many thousands of words I'm up to right now.

[Galoot]

24,671...No, wait...24,690...Hold up a minute...24,712...

I could drive myself crazy this way. I only pay attention to number of pages, and even then the goal is only to put out several a day. And no targets for me. If I go into it thinking "I need to stretch this to X pages" then I'll ramble. I don't want to ramble for money. I want to do that for free. Right here.

Lucky you.

[azbikergirl]

I didn't have a target when I started, aside from "somewhere between 80,000 and 120,000." Imagine my surprise when I counted > 180,000 words! :scared:

I'm in reduction mode now, and hope to reach 115,000 words when it's all said and done.

[katdad]

My first two novels came out at about 68,000 words each, and I expect my 3rd to be about the same, between 65k and 70k. So far I'm at about 20k but I'm not really counting.

The similar length is because I'm writing a series of private detective novels. They tend to be among the shortest of most genre novels. That's probably because the writer is telling one story about one "case" the PI is hired to work on.

However I have no specific target for length.

[zornhau]

My first draft vame to 80K. I need about 100K, which I expect to reach by fleshing out subplots and beefing up some of the description.

[maestrowork]

I targeted my first novel at 100K because I thought that's a good length for a novel (about 300 pages?) I finished the first draft at 95K. Very close. But after a few drafts, it went down to 75K because that happened to be the right length of the story. I cut out all the fat.

[Sassenach]

I hope you're not using MSWord word count...it's not the same as word count for a manuscript.

[MarkEsq]

The first draft of my novel brought me to 55,000 which I understood, on good water cooler authority, to be a little short. After editing and in the second draft the number went UP and on draft 3 I am at 64k. I see from previous replies that this is unusual but I think I know why it happened. I am a former journalist, now a lawyer, so everything I have written for the past fifteen years has been bare bones ("just the facts, ma'am"). Now I have a little license to describe people and places, develop characters more and on reading through my work I see how necessary that is.
By the way, how does MSWord count differ? Up or down?? How else do I count words?

[dblteam]

Well, I was at 75K or so (on the second draft of a novel) when I realized I'd made some fundamental flaws in the characters and world-building. So I'm restructuring and starting over.

It's painful, but had to be done, I believe.

So now I'm at 2K. (Where's a sighing smiley when you need one?)

On the bright side, I'm actually looking forward to what writing time I can scrounge around my job, hubby and four kids. (It had gotten almost impossible to write--I knew something was wrong with the ms but hadn't figured out what it was or what to do about it.)

Valerie

[edfrzr]

Hey guys, on this subject "word count". If I am using MS Word, times new roman, 12pt font, what is a good count for a novel? The first one has 117,000, and the second has 106,000 (per the tool bar). Are these counts good, bad or indifferent?

If anyone wants a sample, you can go to the "Share your work" thread and check one out. I would be grateful for the input.

thanks

[katiemac]

For the posters interested in counting words, this topic has come up many a time. There's threads all over the place, and can be found with a little digging.

Here is a link (http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=434.topic) for just one of these threads, but it's going to open a new window and take you to the old board. I don't know the address of this place. It should be able to tell you anything you need to know.

[zornhau]

Here's good and authoritative as well

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/wordcount.htm

[Coco82]

Yeah, this has already been talked about, the whole word count problem. I believe katdad figured it out.

[Maryn]

I'm hovering just past 35,000 words, but I'm allowing myself to write 'fat' on my first draft. (With these thighs, it's not like I had a choice!) I'm looking at a guesstimate of 110,000 on completion, which I will trim to maybe 85,000 words in the next pass.

These are Word words, not 250-per-page words, BTW.

Maryn

[Velleity]

When all I'm doing is tracking progress, of course I use Word's word count. For me it gives similar results to other word count methods, anyway. When it comes time to submit I'll refine the formatting and use... well, probably whichever method gives me the lowest count.

(139,513 words, down from a high point of about 155k. Goal: 120k, or as long as it needs to be. My instinct is that anything much over 120k is too long for this novel anyway.)

[three seven]

I honestly find all this very confusing. For my WIP I've written 2596 actual words, but it seems that my official word count is either 2400 or 3000, depending on who's counting. Sod it, I think I'll just get on with writing the words and worry about counting them later...

[Maryn]

Exactly, three seven! Just write the words...

Maryn, counting silently so as not to interrupt your train of thought

[karenranney]

Word counts for novels are getting shorter, not longer. Publishers are asking their contracted authors to stay on the lean side. That's LESS than 100,000.

[alaskamatt17]

I'm new here, so I guess I should introduce myself first. My name's Matt, and I've been writing my current novel for just over a year now. I've done a little bit of fiction writing before -- never for publication -- and I've just completed the fifth revision of my sci-fi novel, Orion's Key.

I started my sci-fi project with an estimated final word count of 120,000 words, came out at 114,000 in the end, and have since revised the manuscript down to 105,000 words.

[Maryn]

Excellent, Matt. Lean writing in any genre is a major plus, and the ever-lowering word count shows your rewriting is doing just that.

Nice to meet you!

Maryn

[Nateskate]

Excellent, Matt. Lean writing in any genre is a major plus, and the ever-lowering word count shows your rewriting is doing just that.

Nice to meet you!

Maryn

I accidently wrote nearly half a million words (Somewhere between four-five hundred thousand words). And realized that my trilogy would most likely have to be a series instead. But seeing that it is strongly recommended that first time authors stay under 100,000 words, I restructured the whole mess, and book one should be hopefully ready to shop around by the end of the month, in the 70,000 range.

I'll wait till I have more clout before I start trying the 120,000-150,000 follow-ups. Then again, if the market wants 70,000 word stories, I'll just (lord willing) publish alot more books than I initially planned. Oh what a wicked mess we weave, when we try to write an Epic Fantasy.

[pepperlandgirl]

The first draft of my current manuscript ended up being about 100,000 words. I imagine that it will be up to 115,000 before the revising process is done, if not 125,000. But I'm not worried, because in the following draft, I will trim it back down to about 90,000.

[JohnGalt]

My manuscript is 115,000 words. I think this will make it tougher to sell, but I can't make it any shorter.

- JG

[oswann]

[QUOTE=Nateskate]I accidently wrote nearly half a million words

Was it like - oops I'll just check the word count. Damn, half a million. :Wha:

Os.

[Nateskate]

[QUOTE=Nateskate]I accidently wrote nearly half a million words

Was it like - oops I'll just check the word count. Damn, half a million. :Wha:

Os.

If you really want the actual story. Here goes another ten thousand (Kidding) And you'll have to excuse the cryptic nature of this answer, because I don't want to discuss my full life's history.

I've written many stories (Fiction), but never thought to publish them. It's not that I didn't think they were good. But to explain why would be too complex for this. One was a YA story adventure. That was primarily for myself/friends and our children. I incorporated the children's names into the story. But I've also done serious writing. Without going into detail, for years I had an audience. (Written/spoken) One day I decided to tackle a serious issue in the form of a story, bridging my serious writing with my penchant for making up stories. It had a dramatic impact. So, I decided to do another story in 1995.

However, after writing it, I realized it was way too deep, and that unless I made major changes, people in my target audience probably would never get it. So, I left it go.

Fastforward. I had a serious audience, for serious writing, and a number of non-serious venues, akin to Tolkien's Inklings. It was a bunch of friends having fun. Well, I ended up doing a story for an audience of about sixty friends. And one day, I decided to entertain, so I began a story, because they were all fantasy fans, LOTR fans in particular. So, instead of starting from scratch, I took my YA story, and my serious allegory, and decided to use those as the building blocks. They were on M-Word. This gave me the core of this fantasy. Then, I incorporated fictitious names of about nine or more of this non-serious audience into the story. (With no intentions of ever publishing this) Well, adding new people complicated the storyline, but not in a bad way. In a sense, it was much like LOTR, in that you are following Aragorn,Legolas and Gimli one way, and Frodo and Sam another, and Pippen and Merry still another.

I kept getting feedback from these people, "This is a great story, you should publish this."

After some thought, I figured I was halfway there (my mistake), I said, "Why not!" Some thought I should submit it as is, and I knew it needed major fixing and that if I was serious, I had to actually flesh out the story: Give people hair color, and a bit more detail to the scenery.

What I didn't imagine was how much bigger the story would get when fleshed out. It more than doubled in size. But I was compelled to finish it, and was shocked when book one came in at 170,000+. Book two was about 120,000+ and book three was around 150,000+

It was a monumental task, but it left me with an Epic Fantasy. I'm still doing re-writes, and added so much to the "backstory", that I decided in the end that it was its own book, and will be the first book I attempt to publish. So add roughly 65,000 words to the whole. It wasn't an accident, except that in the beginning I had no intention of writing an epic fantasy. It was an accident in that this was not something I ever intended to be anything more than give as a gift of prolonged entertainment amongst friends. But that appreciative audience is what made me write when I felt like giving up.

So, now, I understand Tolkien's frustrations, in that when you have a work of this magnitude, the trick is keeping it flowing and consistent. I'm still doing re-writes, to make it as professional as possible. And it is absolutley a great story, with great subplots. I presume an editor will find flaws and things to change, but deep down, I think it will be worth it. Gotta hope!

[SRHowen]

The first novel I finished was 350,000 words--I just wrote it, on a manual type- writer. Didn't know a thing about first novel word counts and what they should be, or much about publishing at that time. So, I just wrote.

Now, I end up around 90,000 words which come in at about 120K when I am done editing.

Shawn

[Torin]

My goal is to write 2000 words a day until the story is done. My current is a YA novel, so about 50K is enough, which means I should be done by the end of the month. Right now I have about 11,500--very little accomplished yesterday. Better get my fingers in gear today. :)

[oswann]

[QUOTE=oswann]

If you really want the actual story. Here goes another ten thousand (Kidding) And you'll have to excuse the cryptic nature of this answer, because I don't want to discuss my full life's history.

I've written many stories (Fiction), but never thought to publish them. It's not that I didn't think they were good. But to explain why would be too complex for this. One was a YA story adventure. That was primarily for myself/friends and our children. I incorporated the children's names into the story. But I've also done serious writing. Without going into detail, for years I had an audience. (Written/spoken) One day I decided to tackle a serious issue in the form of a story, bridging my serious writing with my penchant for making up stories. It had a dramatic impact. So, I decided to do another story in 1995.

However, after writing it, I realized it was way too deep, and that unless I made major changes, people in my target audience probably would never get it. So, I left it go.

Fastforward. I had a serious audience, for serious writing, and a number of non-serious venues, akin to Tolkien's Inklings. It was a bunch of friends having fun. Well, I ended up doing a story for an audience of about sixty friends. And one day, I decided to entertain, so I began a story, because they were all fantasy fans, LOTR fans in particular. So, instead of starting from scratch, I took my YA story, and my serious allegory, and decided to use those as the building blocks. They were on M-Word. This gave me the core of this fantasy. Then, I incorporated fictitious names of about nine or more of this non-serious audience into the story. (With no intentions of ever publishing this) Well, adding new people complicated the storyline, but not in a bad way. In a sense, it was much like LOTR, in that you are following Aragorn,Legolas and Gimli one way, and Frodo and Sam another, and Pippen and Merry still another.

I kept getting feedback from these people, "This is a great story, you should publish this."

After some thought, I figured I was halfway there (my mistake), I said, "Why not!" Some thought I should submit it as is, and I knew it needed major fixing and that if I was serious, I had to actually flesh out the story: Give people hair color, and a bit more detail to the scenery.

What I didn't imagine was how much bigger the story would get when fleshed out. It more than doubled in size. But I was compelled to finish it, and was shocked when book one came in at 170,000+. Book two was about 120,000+ and book three was around 150,000+

It was a monumental task, but it left me with an Epic Fantasy. I'm still doing re-writes, and added so much to the "backstory", that I decided in the end that it was its own book, and will be the first book I attempt to publish. So add roughly 65,000 words to the whole. It wasn't an accident, except that in the beginning I had no intention of writing an epic fantasy. It was an accident in that this was not something I ever intended to be anything more than give as a gift of prolonged entertainment amongst friends. But that appreciative audience is what made me write when I felt like giving up.

So, now, I understand Tolkien's frustrations, in that when you have a work of this magnitude, the trick is keeping it flowing and consistent. I'm still doing re-writes, to make it as professional as possible. And it is absolutley a great story, with great subplots. I presume an editor will find flaws and things to change, but deep down, I think it will be worth it. Gotta hope!



Good luck and Godspeed to you. I'm sure you'll get there. ;)

Os.

[Nateskate]

[QUOTE=Nateskate]



Good luck and Godspeed to you. I'm sure you'll get there. ;)

Os.

You don't know how meaningful these little pats on the back are. Thanks.

This process seems like giving birth. After this much pain, that kid better not give me any trouble!

[Mike Martyn]

I'm at 52,000 and shooting for 100,000. Mind you, my characters keep doing the darnest things and throwing me curves. I check the word count since I try for 1000 words a day which inclides little rewrites so that the most recent curves are reflected in the proceeding pages.

[Sassenach]

My manuscript is 115,000 words. I think this will make it tougher to sell, but I can't make it any shorter.

- JG

Anything can be edited. Perhaps you're too close to the work to do it, but a skilled editor could.

[Julie Worth]

I shoot for 2000 words a day and it usually takes me four to five weeks to finish a first draft. I write in the morning, and when I hit the wall sometime in the early afternoon, I begin editing what I’ve done that day, so the first draft is half-polished by the time I finish. For discipline I use a spreadsheet, updating it several times a day. When the chart shows a nice straight line going upwards, then I’m happy. I tend to underwrite, so I set minimum word and page counts for the book. Sometimes I have to squeeze out words to fatten up the chapters. I hate that. Those writers here that “accidentally” write half a million words—God I envy them!

[Nateskate]

I shoot for 2000 words a day and it usually takes me four to five weeks to finish a first draft. I write in the morning, and when I hit the wall sometime in the early afternoon, I begin editing what I’ve done that day, so the first draft is half-polished by the time I finish. For discipline I use a spreadsheet, updating it several times a day. When the chart shows a nice straight line going upwards, then I’m happy. I tend to underwrite, so I set minimum word and page counts for the book. Sometimes I have to squeeze out words to fatten up the chapters. I hate that. Those writers here that “accidentally” write half a million words—God I envy them!

Don't envy me. Pity me. Although I'm chalk full of ideas, my grammar skills lack terribly. So, now that I have this monster, I've had to methodically transform it bit by bit. I'm tempted to envy those whose prose and grammar are right on target from the beginning.

Now, if I could blend their gifts and my gifts, I'd be this big-headed novelist with more novels than a library. It's what we can't do that humbles us. It's what we can do that seems to impress everyone else, but us.

[alaskamatt17]

I used to underwrite, and I'd do set words counts for my chapters and my book as well. But now that I've actually finished two books, I've learned that I can overwrite just as easily. Some of the chapters I targeted for about 1,500 words have come out closer to 2,500, and I'm not afraid to keep following a tangent plot that comes as I write.

[Ella]

[QUOTE=oswann]

This process seems like giving birth. After this much pain, that kid better not give me any trouble!

Dude. Have you HAD kids? Do you realize that once they're squeezed out, and the major shocking pain has subsided, and there's a sigh of relief that its finally no longer sitting in your gut as an unidentifiable being, that is when the REAL WORK starts? From editing and reworking to flogging and marketing, there's trouble. I won't even start in on kids.

Ella

[Richard]

Last full length thing I wrote was 105,000 - a fairly whimsical vampire comedy/drama (basically, taking all the traditional rules, but throwing out the horror, monsters, gothic angst and all the other standard trappings of the genre, in favour of a world where vampirism is an accepted lifestyle choice, supermarkets casually stock blood on the milk counter. In a nutshell, it's a completely English take on it all - more Bridget Jones rather than Bram Stoker, and thus with next to zero chance of making a sale. But hey, it amused me, and that was the basic point.)

Current WIP is aiming at around 100,000 - a piece about two mentally unbalanced con-artist sisters fighting to stay together as their heritage catches up with them. Currently about 20,000 in, although that's during the opening stages of 'Jeez, 100,000 is a very, very big number', so most of them will get reworked or deleted at some point as I get a better handle on the characters.

[Richard]

I won't even start in on kids.

They're about the same, only the flogging is much more satisfying, and the marketing has to be done without drawing the police's att....oh, sorry.

[Nateskate]

[QUOTE=Nateskate]

Dude. Have you HAD kids? Do you realize that once they're squeezed out, and the major shocking pain has subsided, and there's a sigh of relief that its finally no longer sitting in your gut as an unidentifiable being, that is when the REAL WORK starts? From editing and reworking to flogging and marketing, there's trouble. I won't even start in on kids.

Ella

I'm not comparing the pain. But in general, I know a hard labor. We lost our first. We almost lost our second. My wife was in and out of labor for six months with our third. And since our first was hyperactive, having a wife on bedrest for six months wasn't any picnic. Or having my wife perpetually waking me out of sleep to run her to the hospital, and my oldest having chronic ear infections where I had to bath him in cold water at 3 am to knock down fevers that spiked at 104 so he wouldn't have seizures. Which happened sometimes 3 times a week to the point he became resistant to most types of antibiotics. I may not have pushed anything out my canal, but I knew pain. I was getting 2-4 hours sleep and having to go to an extremely demanding job and come right home after work to my second and third job.

If you've ever seen my ADHD threads about my hyperactive kids painting the hardwood floors, poisoning each other, fifty something ER visits in one year, 7 broken windows in two weeks, four broken dressers....beginning to sound like the twelve days of Christmas. How many times did your kids put rocks in your gas tank? How many times did they put fertilizer in your neighbor's? I knew hard labor before and after birth. And I survived.

[Jamesaritchie]

My manuscript is 115,000 words. I think this will make it tougher to sell, but I can't make it any shorter.

- JG

Well, 115,000 isn't really all that long. It's unlikely most lines would reject if for length. But trust me on this, it can be made shorter, and if you can't do it then just wait until an editor looks at it. If an editor likes it enough to buy it, and she wants it at 90,000 words, she will make it shorter very quickly indeed.

Anything can be made shorter, and editors can cut a novel faster than most of us can read one.

[jdkiggins]

How close are you to finishing your manuscript, your target word count? I'm aiming for 60,000 words and have just about 30,000. Good luck to all.

Hmm. I'm twenty-six pages into an edit of 480 pages (95,000 words) on a novel I'm getting ready to send out.

My new WIP target is 100,000 words. Just finished plotting it and wrote the first 3,800 words last night. This one is a suspense/thriller.

My other WIP has no target word count. I'm flying by the seat of my pants like I used to do years ago. I'm testing myself here; trying to determine if plotting slows me down or picks up my pace. Before plotting, I used a very short outline with a list of ideas.

Joanne