Book Titles from Songs

Shady Lane · Dec 20, 2007

So I have a title in mind for one of my mss that comes from a line in a not-very-well-known song. The band is still active, the song was written in the past few years, and the lyrics are definitely not public domain.

So I'm assuming I'm not allowed to use the line (4 words long, if it matters) as a title? But if that's not the case, I'd certainly like to know...

and please don't give me the story about how agents/editors will probably change my title anyway. I know.

Thanks!

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 20, 2007

I'd be curious what the 4 words are. They might be so common as to make the point moot.

Shady Lane · Dec 20, 2007

they're in the avatar

Devil Ledbetter · Dec 20, 2007

She's Come Undone

I Know This Much is True

Blackbird

Yeah, I don't see any problem with this, Shady.

Shady Lane · Dec 20, 2007

really?

sweet.

cletus · Dec 20, 2007

I know of one UK writer that does it all the time. Her titles include:
Every Breath You Take
Bad Moon Rising
Living on a Prayer

Devil Ledbetter · Dec 20, 2007

On second thought, though, those are song titles as well as lyrics. Titles alone aren't copyright protected.

HeronW · Dec 20, 2007

Could you write the songwriter and ask for permission? Or give them credit inside the acknowledgements?

Shady Lane · Dec 20, 2007

Hmm....yeah, it is a lyric, not a title.

HeronW said:
Could you write the songwriter and ask for permission? Or give them credit inside the acknowledgements?

I totally would do that...but this is a step that would be taken at the editorial process, right, if the title even goes through? Would it be OK to query this title without doing any of this?

amber_grosjean · Dec 20, 2007

Yeah, before you send out queries to publishers, I would get the ok from the artist first. And then include that once the publisher accepts it showing you covered all your bases legally. It tells the publisher you were serious, and the title might stick. Always better to do it now rather than later, to be on the safe side. And keep at least 2 copies, one for your records and one for the publisher for their records.

Amber

HopelessDreamer · Dec 20, 2007

This isn't a song, but Hemingway took the title For Whom the Bell Tolls from John Donne's Meditation 17. Huxley's title Brave New World is a line from Shakespeare's The Tempest. Whether they had as strict copyright laws when those were written I don't know, but it seems like writers borrow from each other all the time.

geardrops · Dec 20, 2007

HopelessDreamer said:
This isn't a song, but Hemingway took the title For Whom the Bell Tolls from John Donne's Meditation 17. Huxley's title Brave New World is a line from Shakespeare's The Tempest. Whether they had as strict copyright laws when those were written I don't know, but it seems like writers borrow from each other all the time.

I was totally going to say both those examples.

Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!

willietheshakes · Dec 20, 2007

HopelessDreamer said:
This isn't a song, but Hemingway took the title For Whom the Bell Tolls from John Donne's Meditation 17. Huxley's title Brave New World is a line from Shakespeare's The Tempest. Whether they had as strict copyright laws when those were written I don't know, but it seems like writers borrow from each other all the time.

Those would have both been in the public domain, and therefore fair game.

Devil Ledbetter · Dec 20, 2007

Shady Lane said:
Hmm....yeah, it is a lyric, not a title.

I totally would do that...but this is a step that would be taken at the editorial process, right, if the title even goes through? Would it be OK to query this title without doing any of this?

If it's really only four words though, is that even really copyrightable? I'm looking at the four-word groupings in your sig and not seeing anything with the uniquity to be copyright protected.

I still don't know
Exactly who I am
I never will. Amen.

I'd still ask permission though, because you'll feel better about it.

benbradley · Dec 20, 2007

Shady Lane said:
So I have a title in mind for one of my mss that comes from a line in a not-very-well-known song. The band is still active, the song was written in the past few years, and the lyrics are definitely not public domain.

So I'm assuming I'm not allowed to use the line (4 words long, if it matters) as a title? But if that's not the case, I'd certainly like to know...

Four words seems very unlikely to be long enough to be "copyrightable" or to be infringing. Put the four words in quotes and put that into Google. Are there links on the first page of results that are NOT the song lyrics, nor derived from the song lyrics? I bet there are, and if so, that would be enough evidence for me that it's okay to use.

Can anyone thing of ANY four consecutive words from a song that "clearly and obviously" when you see them in isolation you think "those words are from that song?" No doubt there are such phrases that don't include the title, but I just tried a bunch in Google and couldn't find any offhand.

maestrowork · Dec 20, 2007

Not sure about four words, especially that's a rather common phrase. Technically speaking you're lifting off copyrighted material as they are part of the lyrics, but at the same time, it's not like you're using "You Give Love a Bad Name."

I'd say, use it, and if your publisher has issues with it, deal at that time.

chartreuse · Dec 20, 2007

Douglas Coupland used Girlfriend in a Coma, which is both the title of and lyrics in a song by The Smiths.

Shady Lane · Dec 20, 2007

Ok, since the overwhelming opinion seems to be that I shouldn't worry about it, I won't worry about it. Thanks, guys!

alainn_chaser · Dec 30, 2007

Hey. I was wondering if slight variations are okay? I was thinking of a slightly changed line from Stairway To Heaven as a possible but was worried about not getting permission.

David I · Jan 1, 2008

alainn_chaser said:
Hey. I was wondering if slight variations are okay? I was thinking of a slightly changed line from Stairway To Heaven as a possible but was worried about not getting permission.

This sort of thing is done all the time. cf Raymond Obstfeld's YA novel The Joker and the Thief, which is a slight variation on "said the Joker to the Thief" from Dylan's All Along the Watchtower. Of course, the variation makes a better title anyway.

You'll have much more trouble quoting lyrics in epigraphs than in titles. Titles have great latitude. But cross that bridge when and if you come to it. Right now, use whatever you like.

AllieB · Jan 1, 2008

I agree. 4 words grouped together, unless they are somehow brilliantly original or instantly recognizable, are probably not going to violate a copyright. And yes, after all this worrying, your publisher may very well make you change it anyway.

Book Titles from Songs

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

cletus

I'm a king bee

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

HeronW

Down Under Fan

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

amber_grosjean

AW Addict

HopelessDreamer

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job

willietheshakes

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

chartreuse

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

alainn_chaser

Kweh?

David I

AllieB