Agents and Editors are People, Too

Andrew Zack

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I think, perhaps, that authors forget that agents and editors are people, too. In the last two years, for example, I have gotten engaged, planned a wedding in CA from NYC, moved from NYC to CA to a rented house, gotten married, sold my apartment in NYC, found out the rental was infested with mold, trained for and completed a century bike ride for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, bought a new house in CA, gotten into a dispute with a contractor and spent 8 months arguing with him and eventually going to arbitration (I won), decorated said new house, which we bought from the builder and needed so much work I will never buy a new house from a builder again, and we are trying to start a family. And you want to know why I haven't read your manuscript yet?

In all seriousness, I see two things on this board over and over that make my head spin.

1. The attitude that agents and editors are these incredibly corporate types running their businesses like finely crafted watches and they should have the ability to read and respond to material lickety-split;

2. The attitude that agents are these unapproachable, cold judges of your work upon whose decision your ability to be published will live or die;

Neither of these things are true. I have worked in publishing houses and I have worked at another agency and for other agents, and I have had my own agency for more than a decade. Editors and agents are people too, with all of the stress and anxiety anyone in business must deal with. They go home and have to deal with their spouses' bad days or their children's colds and tummy aches. Not to mention contractors who screw up the job and have to be forced to pay back what they owe you!

Moreover, publishing is perhaps the most subjective business in the world. Anyone who has ever attended an editorial meeting can tell you that. Give a manuscript out to three editors and the chances that all three will love it are close to nil. And if they do, it will be for different reasons. And if they don't, you'll never know if they really don't, or if you managed to tick one of them off in last week's meeting when you didn't like what he brought in, so he's just torpedoing your potential acquisition today.

Yes, if you get twenty rejections, it's the book, not the agents or editors. If you get ten that say the same thing, it's the book, not the agents or editors. But if you get nothing consistent, it may not be the book. It might be that you don't know your market and are pitching the wrong people. Or that you were wrong to write that nonfiction book on that subject because there are too many out there already.

I agree to rep books as an agent that I would never have acquired as an editor. Why? Because every house has its own personality and I was restricted by that when I worked at Warner or Berkley. But as an agent I have every publisher in the English-speaking world to try, if I want. And sometimes it's all just a numbers game.

So, please, fear not the agent or editor. But also don't have unreasonable expectations. That editor who just got back from maternity leave isn't getting any more sleep than she was while on maternity leave. She just had to come back to work. And that agent that you want to read your manuscript might just have a new wife who wants to sit and have dinner and discuss their days, and not have her husband slouched over a manuscript while he eats supper. The publishing world spins with no author or agent or editor at its center. Think of all that has gone wrong in your life or family today. Somewhere an editor or agent can relate. So be professional, have patience, and remember, if they aren't on your payroll, you really can't expect them to work any faster for you than anyone else.

Z
 

Provrb1810meggy

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You mean, people run the publishing industry? Not gazelles, hungry lions, and cockatoos? :tongue

And yes, what you said is true, but I think it's easy for us authors to get nervous about how we approach agents, since it seems like they hold our dreams in their hands. I'll admit to second-guessing a lot of the emails I've sent to agents, and sometimes I even wonder if I'm making an idiot of myself in front of my own agent!
 

jchines

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My agent took months to get to my ms, simply because she was backed up and also on maternity leave at the time. How dare she?

John,

Clearly you need to get yourself a new agent. Mine was still calling DAW about my manuscript when he was in the hospital with gout. Want me to refer you? ;)


Mr. Zack,

I'm curious -- how does an author draw the line between understanding and accepting that agents/editors are human and stuff happens, and deciding that a delay has become unacceptable? My wife has had five surgeries over the past two years, so I definitely understand the need to put life on hold sometimes. But when would you advise an author to say that enough is enough, if that makes sense?

ETA: This is a hypothetical question. I've been quite happy with both my agent and my editor.
 

Giant Baby

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Not so different from anywhere else, Mr. Zack! This is "the Water Cooler." The same sort of analyzing, discussing, complaining goes on in any workplace. The difference here is that writing is an emotional profession for many which requires an unholy amount of rejection for most, and while I can appreciate what you've written about agents being approachable, the simple truth is that usually isn't the case, so kudos to you for being one of the few! No blame here- how can agents be approachable when they're fielding quereys from hundreds of hopefuls per week? We simply have to figure it out ourselves, generally, and this board is the best place to do that.

Just think of yourself as a boss who walked into the bathroom during the coffee break. Agents are the gatekeepers to publication in the vast majority of cases, if the writer wants his or her book to be read. Ya'all are going to cause us a lot of angst.
Yes, if you get twenty rejections, it's the book, not the agents or editors. If you get ten that say the same thing, it's the book, not the agents or editors.
No! Please don't tell writers that! Twenty is nothing! Twenty agents all saying "you have no command of the English language" okay. Twenty agents saying "your plot has holes and redundencies" okay. Twenty rejections in general? Scratching the barrel!
I agree to rep books as an agent that I would never have acquired as an editor. Why? Because every house has its own personality and I was restricted by that when I worked at Warner or Berkley. But as an agent I have every publisher in the English-speaking world to try, if I want. And sometimes it's all just a numbers game.
That is very cool information!
 

Dustry Joe

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I would have to add:

Writers are people, too. Without getting a long list of how to be aware of that, let's start with this one: is it really that hard to just hit the reply button to let us know you got our email (or set up an autoreply)?
 

ORION

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This needed saying. This is why I read agent blogs even though I have an agent. It keeps everything in perspective!
 

Maryn

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Dear Mr. Zack,

Kindly stop by Ray's House of Love Party (on the Office Party board), where you (and your bride) are both welcome to a soothing soak in the hot tub any time you need it. The pool boys and girls are adorable, bar and snack service first-rate, and the towels arrive warm from the dryer.

Seriously, come on by and just chill once in a while. Life keeps us all busy-to-frantic with its ups and downs, and we make a fine Margarita and equally superior coffee, either of which places you back in the center posthaste.

Maryn, who'll explain about the clothing-optional part later
 

Andrew Zack

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Ah, where to start????

If your agent was waiting for an answer from DAW, I hope he was on life support, because he might die of old age before they get back! DAW and Baen undoubtedly hold the world records in my experience for taking too long to get back. Though there is an editor at Berkley quickly catching up. And we're talking years here, folks, not months. And, yes, they have confirmed they have it and have promised to read it, etc. Over and over and over again. In the case of DAW or Baen, it's not like there's a boss to complain to. I'm dealing with the bosses. In the case of Berkley, well, I could drop a dime on the guy, but what would that actually get me? Think he's going to buy the books after I complain to his boss that he's had them since the editor to whom I originally submitted died? I think not.

When is enough enough? For me or for the author? Well, for me it's nearly never. I generally crack once in a while and rant at the editor about how long they are taking. Not surprising, it's not like they call me back and say, "Thank G-d you screamed at me. I read it last night and love it!" Chances are, if they've had it for two years and I'm still calling, they figure there's a reason it hasn't sold yet and they aren't missing out. Then again, I once did a two-book deal for an author whose first book had been rejected by Ace. Two years later, there was a new editor there. I sent her the book, having told her I thought her boss had rejected it two years prior, and she read it and offered on two books. Sometimes timing is everything!

As for you, ignore the guy not responding and keep looking elsewhere. You want a date with the girl or guy who takes six months to call you back? You want to marry that person? Of course not. If the agent is taking longer than you can accept, then he is the wrong agent for you. Let it go.

Agents are not the gate-keepers to publication, especially in this day and age. Authors have made thousands and maybe millions self-publishing. Publishers buy books direct from authors all the time. Will the deal suck? Probably. But you can go find an experienced publishing lawyer--Lance Koonce at DWT; Frank Curtis at Rembar & Curtis; Ken Norwick at Norwick & Schad--to review your contract. Or join the Authors Guild and let them review it (though they won't negotiate it).

But this idea that your life is over because you can't find an agent is no more valid than that your life is over because you haven't won the lottery.

And, while I'm on this subject, getting published is not winning the lottery. Most authors get about a $5,000 advance and never earn out. Yes, writing is an emotional process and frankly I think most authors would benefit by putting some distance between those emotions and their writing. Publishing is a business and the decisions that are made may have nothing to do with your writing. I have rejected books I loved because I saw no market for them. I have represented or published (when I was an editor) books I thought were crap but knew there was a market for them. Want to publish poetry? Great. Good luck with that. But be sure to get a really good job with health insurance because the chances of making a living as a poet are about 300 million to one, I'd say.

And, yes, it really is that hard to just hit reply and let you know I got your email. If we didn't, you should get a bounce notice, right? An autoresponder makes sense and I think an agent who accepts email queries but doesn't have an autoresponder is nuts. But the amount of time it would take to confirm, every email query personally, never mind respond is astronomical.

I am the customer from hell. I freely admit that. When a company pisses me off, I'm happy to write a ranting letter and demand satisfaction. But I know not one literary agency the size of US Airways, or Amazon, or Symantec, or UPS. Literary agents and publishers don't have dedicated "customer service" departments and they never will, at least not for authors, because authors are not customers. Customers are those who pay for something. In the real world, agents should be more concerned with publishers and having good relationships with them, because authors come and go, but publishers tend to stick around. Make an enemy of a publisher and you’ll feel that pinch a lot sooner than you will the pinch of an angry author.

Authors hate reading fees. The AAR doesn't allow its members to charge them. They are too vulnerable to abuse, the AAR says. Authors believe that agents should be "prospecting" for new clients and treat those clients as though they hold gold in their pockets, ready to give to them. But agents know all too well that this is not the case. Every agent I know rejects the vast majority of material that comes their way. So odds are that if I don't get back to someone, I am likely not missing out. And this is a truth every agent knows, even if she doesn’t mention it at writers’ conferences or on her blog.

I piss writers off at writer’s conferences because I talk about these things. I don’t encourage and nurture writers, any more than any boss I ever had encouraged or nurtured me to become an editor. They made me crawl through shit and broken glass to work my way up to a living wage. Should you have to do the same to get published? Maybe. There is something to be said for being tempered by critical fire. An author open to criticism and willing to work on their book is going to succeed. An author who believes the world is just not recognizing her talent may also succeed, but I think is less likely to do so. And an author who expects an agent or editor to read her material because--dammit!--isn't that his job is wrong.

My job is to represent the authors I have already agreed to represent. An editor’s job is to edit the books the publisher chooses to publish and, yes, to look for more. But that looking isn’t the priority when there’s a schedule to keep. And few editors get fired for not reading submissions fast enough. They do get fired for not getting their books to production on time.

That doesn't mean authors shouldn't be treated professionally or within "industry standards," but years and years of publishing have created this notion that agents are all powerful and that publishers are even more so and that you must bow down and do it their way or your life as a writer will end. And as many agents and editors believe that as writers do, unfortunately. And the “standards” resulting are not very author-friendly. But it isn't true. You can succeed without an agent or even a publishing house. It won’t be easy, but it will be a heck of a lot easier than it was last year, never mind ten years ago.

Z
 

HeronW

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I have no doubt that agents/editors/publishers are human, have dreck hitting the fan, etc, but I don't like to be put off and lied to. Had my book, 1st of a series accepted--the publisher gave me a contract. They had 1st dibs for 18 months--in which I wrote 6x about should I start editing since it's over the word count they want, should I look for an artist for the cover, how's it coming, are you still interested?

Replies were all 'yes we're interested' and nothing more, quoth the raven. After 18 months of nothing I took my rights back to the novel with a certified letter.

I never even got a 'sorry you feel this way' reply.

If you aren't interested, don't have time, tell me, don't BS me. I don't need to waste my time and yours.

I understand an agent/editor/publisher may get 200 ms a month. They don't have time to say, 'I'm not interested.' and stuff it in an SASE, or even email back, 'No thanks' to every query.

Fine, but don't expect me to coddle to the 'tell us if you sumitting to others' line either. or 'No multiple submissions'. Really? Chances are slim that 10 out of 100 submissions will even get back to me as a reply from someone, let along a notice that they want to see the first 5 chapters.

Also, when an agent does accept a ms, that person does not send it to Pub house A, wait 5-12 months then send it to Pub house B. They send a mass marketing because that saves time, and they play the Pubs for the best deal they can get for the author. But the author can't do it for himself against these same agants/editors/publishers?

Gotta love the hypocrisy.
 

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I've learned a few things in life, especially when dealing with the self-proclaimed 'customer from hell':

They'll ask for a pint of your blood, and return you a quart of piss...
 

Will Lavender

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So odds are that if I don't get back to someone, I am likely not missing out. And this is a truth every agent knows, even if she doesn’t mention it at writers’ conferences or on her blog.

Nice rant, but I would put in here that there are some hellaciously talented writers who many (most? all?) agents would kill to sign. Authors whose works either sell a crapload and make many other people besides them rich; authors who are so gifted that they really reach the level of high art when they put words on a page.

I agree with some of what you say, but let's not treat authors as if they're expendable automatons who roll through an assembly line, where agents and publishers either pluck them or leave them to trundle on into the vast and vacuous Soup o' Writers. In an attempt to humanize the work of agents, which is a worthy cause (I love my agent, BTW, and have never ever been displeased with her), you sort of dehumanize the writers you work for.
 

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Nice rant, but I would put in here that there are some hellaciously talented writers who many (most? all?) agents would kill to sign. Authors whose works either sell a crapload and make many other people besides them rich; authors who are so gifted that they really reach the level of high art when they put words on a page.

I agree with some of what you say, but let's not treat authors as if they're expendable automatons who roll through an assembly line, where agents and publishers either pluck them or leave them to trundle on into the vast and vacuous Soup o' Writers. In an attempt to humanize the work of agents, which is a worthy cause (I love my agent, BTW, and have never ever been displeased with her), you sort of dehumanize the writers you work for.

I don't think that most agents treat authors as automatons; but I think the simple fact of the matter is that we fiction writers exist in a kind of purgatory that people in few other professions have to endure, and we have to get used to the idea. Many aspiring writers never do.

If you're a competent accountant or salesperson, even if not a great one, you'll find a reasonably lucrative position sooner or later. In the case of unpublished fiction writers, you generally have to be far, far more than competent. My agent told me that there are maybe three hundred top agents out there who have a consistent track record of success moving fiction. Most of them only take on two or three new, unpublished fiction writers a year (my own for example). It means the available "slots" for new fiction writers to get quality agent representation in the USA number maybe a thousand or so. This is against the far larger pool of writers looking for it. My agent gets about fifty or sixty fiction queries per day from unpublished writers.

I've done enough critiques to know that there are hordes of fiction writers out there who are certainly competent, but nothing more. And I'm afraid that to me, there is in fact a vast and vacuous Soup o' Writers out there that publishers and agents have to contend with. Many of them can write fairly well, but don't come close to putting out something that should be published. Obviously things also get published that I would never have expected to see in print, but it's more the exception than the rule.

The painful truth is that the great majority of writers sending off fiction queries are part of that vast and vacuous soup. All too few of them have a realistic view of their chances.
 

DeleyanLee

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Nice rant, but I would put in here that there are some hellaciously talented writers who many (most? all?) agents would kill to sign. Authors whose works either sell a crapload and make many other people besides them rich; authors who are so gifted that they really reach the level of high art when they put words on a page.

I agree with some of what you say, but let's not treat authors as if they're expendable automatons who roll through an assembly line, where agents and publishers either pluck them or leave them to trundle on into the vast and vacuous Soup o' Writers. In an attempt to humanize the work of agents, which is a worthy cause (I love my agent, BTW, and have never ever been displeased with her), you sort of dehumanize the writers you work for.

I honestly didn't take his statement that way at all. I took it as an illustration of Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap which my experience--including books (unpublished and published)--is pretty much on target, if not generous. Odds are in his favor that something he didn't get back to is crap and he's not really missing out on a gem. Sure, odds won't be in his favor every time, but if something's really good then it'll get picked up before he gets to it and he can kick himself later. But, that's how things go.
 

Donna Pudick

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Zack

Loved your comments.

I was surprised at how many nasty comments I received from prospective clients when we shut down for several months, because my partner's husband was being treated for cancer. We did send out a mass letter to current clients, who never complained, offering to let them go, if they couldn't wait for her husband to either recover or die. Needless to say, no one dropped out.

As for the publishing houses, few authors realize what editors go through at those editorial meetings. I spent a more than a few hours crying in my beer over books I pushed to no avail. Editors also go through a personal review (at least at my company they did), as to the calls they made in the year past. It was done with everyone watching and listening. The production chief and the head of advertising held court. If your books made money, you were a hero. If not, you were a pariah. The only editor who didn't get critiqued was the romance editor. Her books always did well.

DP
 

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I think, perhaps, that authors forget that agents and editors are people, too. In the last two years, for example, I have gotten engaged, planned a wedding in CA from NYC, moved from NYC to CA to a rented house, gotten married, sold my apartment in NYC, found out the rental was infested with mold, trained for and completed a century bike ride for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, bought a new house in CA, gotten into a dispute with a contractor and spent 8 months arguing with him and eventually going to arbitration (I won), decorated said new house, which we bought from the builder and needed so much work I will never buy a new house from a builder again, and we are trying to start a family. And you want to know why I haven't read your manuscript yet?

Please don't take this the wrong way - I fully understand how 'real' life can take unexpected turns. (Truly I do.)

But there's one big difference - manuscripts are requested. An agent can control how many manuscripts he or she has waiting to be read. If you have a three months supply waiting for you, stop requesting more until you clear up the backlog.

If queries are taking too much time, stop accepting them for awhile.

Agents can control how long it takes them to respond because they can control how much they put on their plate.

But agents are nothing (in terms of taking time) compared to publishers. (Note that I don't speak from my own experience since I am not yet published. <grin>) I have been told that it generally takes about a year from a book being accepted by a publisher to actually showing up in a store. I find this incredible!

There is no reason it should take this long other than tradition and inefficiency.
 
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BarbaraKE

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Zack

Loved your comments.

I was surprised at how many nasty comments I received from prospective clients when we shut down for several months, because my partner's husband was being treated for cancer. We did send out a mass letter to current clients, who never complained, offering to let them go, if they couldn't wait for her husband to either recover or die. Needless to say, no one dropped out.

I'm sorry to hear that your partner's husband was ill. I hope he recovered and everything is now back to normal.

And I'm sorry you received 'nasty comments'. That's hard to take, even at the best of times. But I suspect that many of them weren't personal but fueled by jealousy.

Most people can't afford to stop working for 'several months'. I used to work as a systems analyst in a large (Fortune 500) company. The stories I could tell you are really sad. I know one man whose 12-year-old son was dying (and eventually died) of leukemia. He used up all his banked vacation time. Other people in the company got together and approached management offering to contribute their vacation time. Nope, company wouldn't let them. He was fired a month after his son died because of 'poor work performance' (i.e. he missed too much work). Same thing happened to another man whose college-age son was involved in a bad automobile accident. Things like this happen all the time.

As for the publishing houses, few authors realize what editors go through at those editorial meetings. I spent a more than a few hours crying in my beer over books I pushed to no avail. Editors also go through a personal review (at least at my company they did), as to the calls they made in the year past. It was done with everyone watching and listening. The production chief and the head of advertising held court. If your books made money, you were a hero. If not, you were a pariah.

DP[/quote]

As I said, I worked as a systems analyst. We got formal performance reviews every three months. We had to keep a log of what we were working on in 15-minute increments.

The only editor who didn't get critiqued was the romance editor. Her books always did well.

Agghhh!! (Banging forehead against table...bang, bang, bang)
 

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Reducing the size of the slush-pile was the single most difficult thing I did when I was an editor. No matter what I did, it grew and grew and grew.

Andrew is right: editors and agents are approachable, enthusiastic people.

My first novel got as far as the editorial board meeting with a few publishers, but was rejected each time by the sales people. One of the editors who wanted it has kept in contact with me while I wrote the second, and has been very supportive. Guess what? She's got an exclusive on the second one, and tells me she's "reading and enjoying" it.