dumb questions (an ongoing thread)....

I'm also just a beginner but this should help.

3) I have always heard to try to limit the amount of camera shots and things a director would want to do him or herself. It's considered amatuer and most of the time rubs the director the wrong way. Unless it's vital, let the director worry about it.

This also applies for telling actors exactly how to say a line. The scene and conversations should give that away.

4) For the most part one minute equals one page. Most scrips are between 90-120 pages.

6) Celtx http://www.celtx.com/

It's free and pretty easy to use. I've been using it on my current script and really like it.

Oh yea, this should help a lot too.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24087

Just a humble aspring writing who could be totally wrong...

Don't think prose. Think shots. Short, concise lines. Fragments. Get the point?

As dogmatic as this may sound, if you want to give yourself the most visibility I'd say 110-115 pages Courier New 12 pt Font.

Some scripts number scenes, but generally this should not be done.

It varies greatly if you're unknown or established. Apparently unknowns have to follow formats to a tee to even get a glimpse. Or not (see title).

A spec script is what I would write if I was trying to sell it to someone. A shooting script is what I would write if I was directing the thing myself. Length-wise, there is negligible difference, IMHO.

I'm currently Capitalizing the first time a character appears and that's it. However, I've also done (and seen) people capitalize as a way of directing the camera, if you will, such as.

Darren's EYES narrow. (Implying a CU on the eyes).

And sometimes, people capitalize whatever the hell they feel like capitalizing.

My script program experience was bad - no recommendations here.

Act 1 - Beginning
Act 2 - Middle
Act 3 - End

LOL (I crack myself up... sorry, I couldn't help that last jab)

preyer said:

1) what is a spec script? as i understand it, you've got your spec script that's got a kind of prose involved to interest producers and actors, then you've got your shooting script. am i right on this? is the screenwriter responsible for providing a shooting script at some point?

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A spec script is a script written on speculation, not commisioned by a producer. It is written because the writer wants to, because they think they will be able to sell it at some point in the future or, more often than not, as a sample of their writing. You only need to worry about shooting scripts once your work has been bought and greenlit for production.

2) looking at a few scripts online, i've noticed some of them have numbers. are these scene numbers? are these shooting scripts?

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Don't worry about numbers, you don't need them. If you put scene numbers in now and the script is bought, those numbers are only going to change anyway so there's really no point.

3) i've noticed that some scripts detailing camera shots. are these just for shooting scripts? can you or should you not add this kind of thing for a spec script or should i just try to allude to the vision i have in my head without trying to inform the director how to do his job?

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Avoid any technical description. It's fine to bring attention to something important but don't mention zoom, pan, dolly, rack focus or anything else that will ultimately be somebody else's decision.

4) my memory is rather fuzzy on this, though i know i've heard something like it before, but does one page equate roughly to one minute of screen time? with all the added prose of a spec script (i'm still assuming i've derived this meaning from context clues), does this work out?

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It's a useful guide but not necessarily set in stone. A wordier script will race along faster than one page a minute while a description-heavy script will take longer.

5) are specs and shooting scripts very different in size? that is, is there an 'average' page count i should roughly shoot for for a spec? or should i sit there with a stop watch and imagine each scene in my head, add it all up and go for an hour and a half worth of material, and the spec script size be damned?

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Between 90-120 pages is considered acceptable though I try not to go over 105 and refuse to go over 110 these days. As long as you're within that range, you'll be fine. A producer wants to know you can write to accepted page counts.

6) can anyone recommend a good free download script programme? preferable one you've used.

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I use Final Draft which I believe you can download a demo version of. Others may know of full programmes you can get for free.

7) i've seen a lot of recommended books on screenwriting, but what one do you suggest?

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Save The Cat! by Blake Snyder is the one I learned the most from.

8) i'm a little vague on capitalizing certain things. names i understand, but the other things i've noticed seem a bit on the random side to me. what's the idea behind it, or if there's not rock solid 'rules' involved, how do you do it?

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I don't think anyone fully understands when and what to capitalise. Character names (when they appear for the first time) are always capitalised but beyond that it's down to personal taste. Some people cap all their sound effects, some cap important props or actions. Too many can be a distraction though so if you use them, use them sparingly.

oh, and this is about the dumbest thing ever: i have never known exactly what's supposed to happen in act 1, II, and III. anyone care to shed some light on this for me? i've tried to find this stuff out on the internet, but came up failing.

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Think of acts like boxes in a comic strip. In the first, you introduce a character and a setting. In the second, you complicate what you've set up in the first box, and in the third, you pay it all off with an ending.

One of the best analogies I heard was, in the first act you put a guy up a tree. In the second act you throw rocks at him. And in the third, the guy figures out a way to get down.

Of course, there are ebbs and flows to those individual acts but a good three act structure is essential.

Surprised you try not to go over 105. I've heard of people tossing scripts automatically at that length. But, my target range of 110-115 is ridiculously narrow.

Most if not all of these have already been answered, but here goes anyway:

1) what is a spec script? as i understand it, you've got your spec script that's got a kind of prose involved to interest producers and actors, then you've got your shooting script. am i right on this? is the screenwriter responsible for providing a shooting script at some point?

Click to expand...

A spec script hasn't been commissioned or assigned, no one is paying you to write it. You're writing it on spec with the hope of submitting it to a prodco or contest. If and when a script sells, it'll get rewritten into a shooting script, quite possibly by the director.

2) looking at a few scripts online, i've noticed some of them have numbers. are these scene numbers? are these shooting scripts?

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Yes, shooting scripts. Spec writers don't include scene numbers.

3) i've noticed that some scripts detailing camera shots. are these just for shooting scripts? can you or should you not add this kind of thing for a spec script or should i just try to allude to the vision i have in my head without trying to inform the director how to do his job?

Click to expand...

The story I read is that some years ago, when everybody and their dog realized that screenwriting was the path to fame and riches, a tidal wave of scripts hit Hollywood, mostly of dire quality, heavy on camera directions and light on story. Thus camera directions became seen as the mark of the amateur. Also, directors regard this as their province. Spec writers are therefore advised to avoid camera directions completely and tell the story visually instead.

4) my memory is rather fuzzy on this, though i know i've heard something like it before, but does one page equate roughly to one minute of screen time? with all the added prose of a spec script (i'm still assuming i've derived this meaning from context clues), does this work out?

Click to expand...

You're right, in theory 120 pages = 2 hours of film.

5) are specs and shooting scripts very different in size? that is, is there an 'average' page count i should roughly shoot for for a spec? or should i sit there with a stop watch and imagine each scene in my head, add it all up and go for an hour and a half worth of material, and the spec script size be damned?

Click to expand...

I aim for an average 100 pages. Others aim for 110. Anywhere between 90 and 120 pages is acceptable. Lower than 90, and you don't have enough story. Higher, you either have too much going on or you haven't shrunk enough.

6) can anyone recommend a good free download script programme? preferable one you've used.

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Celtx will do the biz for you. I wrote my last script using Notepad2, in plain text, and when I had the first draft completed I imported it into a screenwriting program. Some people swear by MS Word. Free Word templates are available, see the tips thread.

7) i've seen a lot of recommended books on screenwriting, but what one do you suggest?

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Tough one. Everyone has their own preferences. I'd suggest reading 100 screenplays instead.

8) i'm a little vague on capitalizing certain things. names i understand, but the other things i've noticed seem a bit on the random side to me. what's the idea behind it, or if there's not rock solid 'rules' involved, how do you do it?

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I only capitalize characters when we first meet them, e.g. MIKEY, a nervous sweat stain in a crumpled suit. And sound effects, The door SLAMS shut. Note that physical character descriptions like hair color are irrelevant, especially when Rosie O'Donnell is cast as your slim, elegant, blonde-haired femme fatale.

This might be useful -- it's in the screenwriting tips sticky thread, unfortunately so is an overwhelming amount of other info:

SCREENPLAY STRUCTURE
The Five Key Turning Points of All Successful Scripts
http://www.screenplaymastery.com/structure.htm

The 3-act thing is from Greek times as you know. The most basic rendering is along the lines of:

Act I - put your character up a tree
Act II - have people throw stones at him
Act III - have him overcome all odds to climb back down

You'll maybe find screenwriters talking about splitting Act II -- the longest act -- into two halves, IIa and IIb.

You could do worse than to spend a day or two browsing the many script tips on Bill Martell's site.

As always I'm just offering my opinion, I'm not claiming I'm right.

-Derek

LIVIN said:

Surprised you try not to go over 105. I've heard of people tossing scripts automatically at that length. But, my target range of 110-115 is ridiculously narrow.

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It's based on my (UK) experience of talking to producers who seem to be getting a bit tired of reading two hour ghost stories when a one hour forty or even a ninety minute script would be preferable. Tossing a script because it's 105 pages seems a bit savage to me but fortunately I've worked myself into a position where my work tends to go straight to producers rather than through some Draconian reader (though I really, really don't think 105 would be a problem.)

Each to their own, of course.

Read lots of scripts, software programs help to get the formatting without too much sweat. Chances are you're going to need to write several scripts to get the hang of it, so don't worry so much.

Dialog, characters, all of these are much harder than the formatting.

Study movies, study scripts, switch back and forth. The more you work with them the better the feel you'll get for them.

You'll probably think your first work is fantastic. It's not as great as you think it is. It never is for anyone.

It takes a lot of work to learn, but it can also be a lot of fun.

Good luck and take care.

Remember, there's always more to learn.

preyer said:

based on john austin's advice, the guy linked to in the stickies, i described my characters the way he suggested. like you said, d, try to offer a visual. can i assume that this is even more important in a spec script? or am i wanting to rely too much on being prosey, which i'd imagine is one of the major hurdles for a novelist-oriented dipping his dork in the screenwriting well?

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I wish I knew 1/10th of the stuff John August knows! All I can do is make some erratic guesses based on stuff I've picked up over the years. Methinks if a physical description reveals something about the character then by all means include it, but don't go overboard.

Here be a few quickie examples from the most recent scripts I've been writing and reworking, feel free to agree or disagree with my word choices and reasoning:

INT. BATHROOM, GEORGE'S FLAT - DAY

GEORGE brushes his teeth. Early 20s, yuppie office type.
He dribbles toothpaste onto his tie, and groans.

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...The protag here is intentionally painted as just an ordinary guy, because a violent situation soon arises which a clumsy office drone just isn't equipped to handle. Kind of a "counterpoint with genre" description.

EXT. STREET OUTSIDE NEWSPAPER SHOP - DAY

A clapped-out hatchback pulls up, out climbs DEL GALWAY, age
somewhere in the region of 30, physique somewhere in the
region of fat bastard. Del wears an anorac over a grubby
pair of white trousers.

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...In this case the physical description is related to the story, our slob hero attends a karate class and is the worst student ever, which works against him when he gets into serious trouble with members from a rival club.

EXT. PENTHOUSE - NIGHT

Hanging from wires underneath the balcony like a black spider,
with a sheer drop beneath him, ADAM GREFF enjoys the view.
He seems entirely comfortable with his situation. You or I
would be screaming in terror.

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...Action hero, revealed in unusual situation. No physical description at all, could be played by Steven Seagal or Shia LaBeouf.

INT. JOHNNY'S CAR - NIGHT

JOHNNY KRUGER sits in the dark, smoking. He's around 30s,
handsome in a beat-up kind of way, trench coat, slouch hat.
His eyes are fixed on a particular motel room. The light's on
inside, curtains are shut.

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...A Noir private dick at work, so his appearance is important.

INT./EXT. ROSETTA'S CAR - DAY

At the wheel, ROSETTA SOLAZZI, 20s, an Italian-American beauty
who could cause a major traffic accident just by smiling.
She wears black dress, hat, sunglasses.

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...Mafia boss's daughter returns home for her father's funeral.

Maybe not, each to their own.

Consider listing your 20 favorite films... find the scripts... and see how the pros introduced the protag and other characters.

-Derek

icerose said:

You'll probably think your first work is fantastic. It's not as great as you think it is. It never is for anyone.

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There's nothing like a bit of optimism...

-Derek

dpaterso said:

There's nothing like a bit of optimism...

-Derek

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Anytime Derek . Whenever I think I'm pretty hot stuff, all I need to do is go back and read over my first couple pieces and wow, instant humility!

Preyer, basically you have to find your groove and run with it.

I recently got a review back from a universal studios reader on one of my pieces.

She said I had the structure, formatting and all the hard stuff down, but my prose wasn't exciting enough, they actually wanted it a bit more like a novel. Have a life of it's own. She said I was down to the fun parts of script writing where the prose and dialog just needed some more jazz. (paraphrasing of course)

They want pictures painted in their heads with your words. You don't want to go overboard, but you don't want it dull like a technical report either. Paint pictures.

preyer said:

i notice in your descriptions, d, that some of them are fairly prosey, i thought. of course, each description should be applied for their own reason. so, is it acceptable to use the vague description of 'handsome' or 'pretty'? or should you lean more towards your more descriptive mafia daughter example?

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Another tough one to answer, since I try to vary each protag description in each script, sometimes referring back to what I've written before so it's not too samey-samey.

i've looked up my favourite movies. but they're like indiana jones and star wars... stuff that the writer also directed, so i have to wonder if those are perhaps the best examples.

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True, George Lucas does tend to be a prosy devil:

EXT. TATOOINE - DESERT WASTELAND - DAY

A death-white wasteland stretches from horizon to horizon.
The tremendous heat of two huge twin suns settle on a lone
figure, Luke Skywalker, a farm boy with heroic aspirations
who looks much younger than his eighteen years. His shaggy
hair and baggy tunic give him the air of a simple but lovable
lad with a prize-winning smile.

-and-

INT. REBEL BLOCKADE RUNNER - MAIN HALLWAY

The awesome, seven-foot-tall Dark Lord of the Sith makes his
way into the blinding light of the main passageway. This is
Darth Vader, right hand of the Emperor. His face is obscured
by his flowing black robes and grotesque breath mask, which
stands out next to the fascist white armored suits of the
Imperial stormtroopers. Everyone instinctively backs away
from the imposing warrior and a deathly quiet sweeps through
the Rebel troops. Several of the Rebel troops break and run
in a frenzied panic.

STAR WARS - Episode IV - A NEW HOPE by George Lucas

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...but even so, these are two distinctively different intros with good reason for being so.

James Cameron goes for a less prosy more visual intro:

His gloved hand wipes at on opaque layer of dust on the
canopy.

ANGLE INSIDE CAPSULE as light stabs in where the dust is
wiped away, illuminating a WOMAN, her face in peaceful
repose.

WARRANT OFFICER RIPLEY, sole survivor of the Nostromo.
Nestled next to her is JONES, the ship's wayward cat.

ALIENS by James Cameron

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Kind of a dull intro for this guy:

INT. 747 - PASSENGERS - SAME

The usual moment just after landing when you let out that sigh
of relief that you've made it in one piece. As the plane TAXIS
to its gate, they stir, gather personal belongings.

ON JOHN MCCLANE

mid-thirties, good-looking, athletic and tired from his trip.
He sits by the window. His relief on landing is subtle, but
we NOTICE. Suddenly, he hears --

SALESMAN'S VOICE
You don't like flying, do you?

McClane turns, looks at the Babbit clone next to him. Caught,
he tenses, holds his armrests in exaggerated fear.

MCCLANE
No, no, where'd you get that idea?

DIE HARD Screenplay by Jeb Stuart, Revisions by Steven E. DeSouza

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...yet it's full of character, you can feel McClane, step into his shoes. DIE HARD is often cited as one of of the best action scripts ever written, for good reasons. Contrast with the cool, in control manly hero intro:

A YOUNG SOLDIER

His face covered with the remains of the motorman. Starts
to lose it. Begins to shudder and weep. His name is
DeLancey.

THE BOYS AROUND HIM

Do their best to stare straight ahead. But the fear infects
them. It starts to spread.

A FIGURE

Pushes through the men. Puts himself in front of DeLancey.

The figure is CAPTAIN JOHN MILLER. Early thirties. By far
the oldest man on the craft. Relaxed, battle-hardened,
powerful, ignoring the hell around them. He smiles, puts a
cigar in his mouth, strikes a match on the front of DeLancey's
helmet and lights the cigar.

DeLancey tries to look away but Miller grips him by the jaw
and forces him to lock eyes. Miller smiles. DeLancey is
terrified.

DELANCEY
Captain, are we all gonna die?

MILLER
Hell no, two-thirds, tops.

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN by Robert Roday

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...which sets us up to discover and appreciate the truth about Captain Miller, which is all the more satisfying.

To be honest, some of these snippets make me feel downright inadequate. I guess all I'm saying is, it's worth looking outside your preferred genre, maybe even at scripts for films you'd never watch, just to see how they're written.

-Derek

Act 1 sets up the charactes and begins the conflict
Act 2 gets everyone's dander up
Act 3 is the resolution and picking up the pieces

LIVIN said:

Surprised you try not to go over 105. I've heard of people tossing scripts automatically at that length. But, my target range of 110-115 is ridiculously narrow.

Click to expand...

I've never heard of anyone tossing a script because it was 105 pages. I think under a hundred pages might make people look twice but anything between 100 and 115 is definitely in the ballpark and these days, I'd think that 105-110 would be the bulls-eye to aim at.

The fact is, I wouldn't think twice about submitting a script that was under 105 pages. On the other hand, I would never submit a script today that was 120. Today, it's just too long.

NMS

preyer said:

great samples, d. and, ice, all my stories should come with special headgear to help prevent your face from being rocked off. my humble opinion, of course.

i notice in your descriptions, d, that some of them are fairly prosey, i thought. of course, each description should be applied for their own reason. so, is it acceptable to use the vague description of 'handsome' or 'pretty'? or should you lean more towards your more descriptive mafia daughter example?

i've looked up my favourite movies. but they're like indiana jones and star wars... stuff that the writer also directed, so i have to wonder if those are perhaps the best examples.

Click to expand...

No matter what you may hear or read about keeping your description sparse, the worst sin you'll ever commit in writing a script of any kind is to make it a bore to read.

Think of it this way. If it's the hero or the heroine -- it's a movie. They're not going to cast somebody ugly unless you specify that they're ugly. So saying "pretty" or "handsome" isn't really saying very much.

If you're going to bother with any kind of character description, it has to really be that -- the description has to really apply to the "character" -- not simply to their physical appearance. It has to help the reader not simply to see what that person looks like but to help them understand, in very few words, what kind of person we're dealing with.

I'll give you an example:

These two character descriptions are from a script I wrote called "Deader" which was my first big sale to Dimension:

AMY KLEIN, a woman in her mid-twenties. She's all in black, from her black sneakers and black stockings up to her rimless black sun glasses and jet
black hair. The only thing about her that isn't black is a complexion so translucently pale that it bespeaks only the most rare and grudging familiarity with daylight.

BUD FIRENZI, the Editor-in-Chief, is a man in his early forties, sporting a pony tail which, like a moustache on a sixteen-year-old, only serves to emphasize his true age.

Obviously, the above descriptions take time -- they use up lines, but you have to make a decision how to use the limited lines you have available -- and you want the first introductions of significant characters to *register* in the minds of your readers, so that they have a vivid sense of who these individuals are.

"AMY KLEIN (mid-twenties, pretty)" doesn't tell anyone anything. If I'd substituted this for the former, what would I have accomplished, other than saving some lines? And what would I do with those lines that are going to have a comparable impact to the first *visual* impact that that character will have when she first appears on screen -- all in black, skin pale as ivory -- an appearance that tells us something about who and what she is.

I'm a writer now, but I spent years working in development and those stripped-down "non"-prosey scripts were always agony to get through. It's as if a story that's meant to move you or scare you or excite you has been reduced down to something like a technical manual.

Don't believe that stuff about a screenplay being a blueprint. It isn't really. It's like those beautiful art drawings of the proposed building. It's a "selling" document, designed to make the guys with money see the finished film and want to pay you and others tons of money to turn what you have visualized into an actual feature.

NMS