Italics?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gardenia31

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
1
When one writes a thought of any character, is it okay to write that thought in italics, does it matter either way?

Ex:

I want to play, now, thought Monica. Right now.

I want to play, now- in italics,

Right now- in italics
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
FennelGiraffe, what about thoughts in 1st person POV? My novel is in 1st person past, and I italicize the thoughts that are in 1st person present. One of my betas told me this was jarring. What do you think?
 

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
445
Location
San Antonio
FennelGiraffe, what about thoughts in 1st person POV? My novel is in 1st person past, and I italicize the thoughts that are in 1st person present. One of my betas told me this was jarring. What do you think?
In 1st, all the narrative is the POV char's thoughts, so the standard answer is that you shouldn't have specific thoughts to italicize.

However, I suppose it's possible to have a character who sometimes consciously thinks to himself in words, as distinct from the normal run of stuff that he is experiencing but not thinking about thinking about (if you know what I mean). Then it would make sense to use italics for those kinds of thoughts. But it would be an unusual character who has strange things going on inside of his head.

Of course, anything can work--when it's done well. Part of the answer may depend on what genre you write in. Some are more tolerant of unusual literary technique than others.

ETA: Another option would be to punctuate it like normal dialog, but tag it as "I said to myself," and leave it ambiguous whether he actually spoke it out loud or just thought it.
 
Last edited:

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
One of my betas told me this was jarring. What do you think?


I think I'd have to read it and watch my reaction.

Fennel Giraffe said:
In 1st, all the narrative is the POV char's thoughts, so the standard answer is that you shouldn't have specific thoughts to italicize.

Sloppy thinking born of the three-type PoV-model.

In first-person you have the distinction between the narrating I and the experiencing I. Loosely speaking, the narrating I largely relates to the narrating I in the way an omniscient narrator relates to his/her point-of-view character. Normally, in first person, there is a distance between the narrator telling the story, and the narrator experiencing the story (the equivalent to third limited is rare in first person), but sometimes you might get an equivalent situation. In these cases having italicised thoughts for the first-person-character is pretty much comparable to italicised thoughts of the third-person-character in a third-limited point of view.

That's simplifying a lot, but I hope you get the general drift.
 

Maryn

I Tried
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
64,164
Reaction score
43,193
Location
Behind you!
It's hardly respecting your fellow writer to label her input "sloppy thinking." Care to reword that using some tact?

Maryn, insisting on civility
 

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
It's hardly respecting your fellow writer to label her input "sloppy thinking." Care to reword that using some tact?

Maryn, insisting on civility

I recognised a type of argument, and went off on my own personal rant. I didn't really mean to accuse anyone of thinking sloppily.

Sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

Eddie, who gets cranky around Christmas
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
OK, perhaps an example from the middle of the good old WIP. Does this sound unnatural?

He took his hand out. I crushed some bones and cut up the flesh, but he still had all his digits. Pity. Bloody fingers clutched the piece of glass he found in my mouth. He dropped it. Looked at me. Sweetie, you’ll look even more impressed with your innards on the floor.

“This is getting tiresome.” He mended his hand, and I could see no purple glare this time. Then he hit me hard across the face. Smiled. “I must apologize. I did not inquire after the purpose of your visitation.”

His power shifted, but I did not speak. Just looked at him. He must have a weak point. Or three. Everybody does.
 

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
445
Location
San Antonio
OK, perhaps an example from the middle of the good old WIP. Does this sound unnatural?
It's always hard to judge a brief excerpt out of context. I think you're making the same distinction I mentioned about experiencing events vs. consciously thinking in words. It's an unusual style, but I wouldn't say it was unnatural. In a sense I can't quite pin down, those thoughts feel a little like breaking the fourth wall (addressing the reader directly). As written, they do need to be italicized. I have some concern, though, that they might get annoying at length.

PS. A couple of unrelated comments. (I can't help it; it's a disease :Shrug: )
He took his hand out. I crushed some bones and cut up the flesh...
That would read better to me as "I had crushed." I assume the crushing and cutting happened before he took his hand out, and the MC is seeing the results afterward. As written, though, it seems to be "First he took his hand out, then I crushed some bones."

Actually, my second comment does relate to one of the thoughts:
He dropped it. Looked at me. Sweetie, you’ll look even more impressed with your innards on the floor.
At first glance, that seemed to be "his" thought instead of the MC's. (I know--in 1st it must be the MC's, but it felt like the other guy's until I thought about it.) Perhaps in context, with a reader accustomed to the MC's voice, it wouldn't be a problem.
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
Thanks a lot, FennelGiraffe. There aren't a lot of those, so I hope my readers will not get too annoyed. I also planned to use internal dialogue to differentiate between my various 1st person protagonists; some were supposed to have more and some less. It is not working very well.

PS. A couple of unrelated comments. (I can't help it; it's a disease :Shrug: )
That would read better to me as "I had crushed." I assume the crushing and cutting happened before he took his hand out, and the MC is seeing the results afterward. As written, though, it seems to be "First he took his hand out, then I crushed some bones."
oh yes, the past perfect. My eternal problem. You see, I am not a native speaker and the narrative tenses are my weak point. Thank you so much for pointing that out.

Actually, my second comment does relate to one of the thoughts:
At first glance, that seemed to be "his" thought instead of the MC's. (I know--in 1st it must be the MC's, but it felt like the other guy's until I thought about it.) Perhaps in context, with a reader accustomed to the MC's voice, it wouldn't be a problem.

This is something to think about - thanks!
 

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
It's always hard to judge a brief excerpt out of context. I think you're making the same distinction I mentioned about experiencing events vs. consciously thinking in words. It's an unusual style, but I wouldn't say it was unnatural.

Agree, so far.

In a sense I can't quite pin down, those thoughts feel a little like breaking the fourth wall (addressing the reader directly). As written, they do need to be italicized. I have some concern, though, that they might get annoying at length.

Interesting. To me these italics have the effect of re-inforcing the wall; to make sure that the reader is not addressed (giving that addressing the reader directly is the default mode for my readings in first person).

For example, I think it wouldn't occur to me that the narrator is referring to me (or the addressee of the text), with "Sweetie". It's clear that the addressee of "Sweetie" is in the text.

Why do I say "I think"?

Because I had a similar initial experience:

Actually, my second comment does relate to one of the thoughts:
At first glance, that seemed to be "his" thought instead of the MC's. (I know--in 1st it must be the MC's, but it felt like the other guy's until I thought about it.) Perhaps in context, with a reader accustomed to the MC's voice, it wouldn't be a problem.

I have no correct innocent reaction to this line.
 

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
3,459
Reaction score
653
Website
www.joannabourne.com
Leesee ..

in Third Person.

"Get out of my way!" Marilee was vast annoyed. How dare the purple-haird punk cut his shopping cart in front of her. Die, eggplant scumbag. I hate you.

Dialog -- "Get out of my way!"
Narrative -- Marilee was vast annoyed.
An 'internal' or character thought -- How dare the purple-haird punk cut his shopping cart in front of her.
Internal monolgue, (direct character self address) --Die, eggplant scumbag. I hate you.


First Person

"Get out of my way!" I was vast annoyed. How dare the purple-haird punk cut his shopping cart in front of me. Die, eggplant scumbag. I hate you.

Dialog -- "Get out of my way!"
Character thoughts -- I was vast annoyed. How dare the purple-haird punk cut his shopping cart in front of me.
Internal monolgue, (direct character self address) --Die, eggplant scumbag. I hate you.


Jo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.