Feedback from publishers when they reject you [Archive]

Lauri B

03-04-2005, 06:48 PM

arainsb123

03-05-2005, 12:51 AM

I would love it if publishers would tell me why they rejected my manuscript.

Chacounne

03-05-2005, 01:47 AM

Hi Lauri,

I would much, much rather receive an honest critique from a publisher than a straight no. A critique I can use to make the piece, and my writing in general, better; a straight no I can only put in the file and wonder what went wrong.
For me, it would be the wondering that would be so frustrating.

Thanks for asking,
Chacounne

Galoot

03-05-2005, 03:36 AM

The more feedback the better. A straight "no" doesn't give me anything to go on. Is that "No, you should stick to serving burgers, not writing," or "No, but if you tweak this and that, we'd like a second look?" I can work with both of those. A straight "no" doesn't give me anything to go on.

That said, I sure as heck understand that only manuscripts which actually have some redeeming quality will warrant that amount of personal effort by an editor.

I wonder if I should slip a postage paid card in with each submission:

Do you want this? Please check one
< > Rewrite it and send it back!
< > Not this one, but send us your next
< > No, but someone else might
< > No
< > From now on we will return your mail unread

Medievalist

03-06-2005, 09:59 AM

Oy!

Remember, it's not you the writer that's been rejected, it's just that piece of writing.

Even though it may feel personal, don't think of it that way.

maestrowork

03-06-2005, 10:09 AM

Right. Still it's good to know why the ms. is rejected -- a brief but not generic (not for us) explanation would be good: the pace is too slow, the beginning too violent, the subject matter doesn't fit our current line, etc. But, yeah, don't take it personally. It's hard to do, since we do take our work personally, but it's really about the work -- and a lot of times it's about finding the best match. The same project could be accepted by another publisher -- there might not be anything wrong with it.

JennaGlatzer

03-07-2005, 05:09 AM

Lauri, it would be so brave of you to give feedback on rejections. I think most writers would love it. I used to offer reasons on most rejections for publications I edited, but stopped when I got too many arguments back-- like, I'd write, "This article is inaccurate in places X, Y, and Z and could use some fact-checking," and the writer would write back, "That's a stupid reason to reject my work! Everything has some errors!" or the like. You do open yourself up to some weenies, but for the most part, I think writers will appreciate the heck out of you.

I know that I wound up writing for several mags just because the editor took the time to tell me where I went wrong and what I could do to improve my chances of working with them. Bill Bush at Physical magazine was the best that way... sadly, he's no longer there, but I'll never forget him! Elaine Greene at House Beautiful is another one who goes above and beyond in giving helpful feedback.

NotTooLate

03-07-2005, 04:49 PM

See, you prove that editors do care. Rejection is such an ugly word. I didn't work for a big house, but a small press and our editor just agonized over rejection letters. She wanted to find perfect way to convey, without evoking false hope or crushing the writer, exactly why it wasn't right for us and why it could be right for another publisher. Or, what needs to be fixed before submitting elsewhere. She even went as far as finding, then listing, other houses that might be interested! But you know, some people were still angry. I guess that's just the way they'll always be.

Senta

03-07-2005, 10:00 PM

don't want to duplicate anything above so would just like to add that it would be extremely helpful to get a feedback on the 'market' situation - was my book aimed at the right kind of market, is there such a market etc. I feel that would help me most.

it would also confirm that I, the writer, am a partner in this business of writing and publishing. after all, without me, there would be no books!

Daughter of Faulkner

03-09-2005, 03:49 PM

therefore when I began another novel I was able to use my talents as a writer and lean towards various markets, etc., and not just be stuck in a Mississippi fish bowl. And I love my Mississippi and fish very much!

I believe a good writer is a good writer no matter what he writes. When I was given feedback it made me "think" and I did not "think" when I wrote my first novel rather I let the creative juices flow. Four of the chapters have been published as short stories from that novel, which by the way, is still not finished yet. When editors wrote or called me and said this piece sounds like a novel (short story) have you thought of developing it? That is how I began to compose a novel.

THEN the second novel came before the first was completed. How THAT happened I have no idea but it did. Both are very different from the other, though.
I have always had agents, editors, etc., interested in me and "my voices" but only recently have I found someone who just might be a perfect fit for me.
So, I wrote all this to say that when I was given feedback I grew and became a better writer because of it.
Like "The New Yorker," has always written me either on paper or electronically nowadays good things about my short stories I submitted and in my mind I used TNY as a gage of if the work was publishable. Then the next place I submitted the story to took it.
Does that mean anything?
I don't know but it works for me!

I had to get to the place in my writing life that I was willing to listen to what agents and editors said to me as well. And now I am happy and a better writer because I listen with every fiber in my being.

SeanDSchaffer

03-10-2005, 12:18 PM

Hi all,
So here's a question from someone who is usually doing the rejecting (although believe me, I have a shelf full of rejections, many of them crookedly xeroxed and looking like a monkey might have sent them to me):
what is the best kind of rejection? Would you rather have feedback or just a "no" so you can move on to the next submission? Would you rather have an honest critique of your work(diplomatically phrased) and why it isn't working, or would you rather not get the "rework this, rework that" so you can keep submitting elsewhere quickly?

I get manuscripts in every day that are well written but really not going to be marketable for most publishers--the niche they are writing for is too small, or the market they are trying to reach is too broad for the subject, or the subject itself is just too obscure for a traditional publisher to want to try to market, etc. etc. So give me some feedback on this. I think it would be useful to hear what people have to say on this.

Nomad,

If it was me, I'd ask the publisher to tell me why the manuscript was rejected (In a diplomatic way, of course, like you mentioned) so that I would know exactly what is wrong with my work, and what is good. I want my work as close to perfect as possible, and I can only find out whether it is or not through the honest critiquing of the people who read it.

There was a time I would have shunned this kind of critquing, and that was a dark time in my writing aspirations.

Nateskate

03-10-2005, 04:03 PM

There's an upside and a downside to having the editor "coach" you. For the most part, the assumption is this:

1) The editor\agent is always right.
2) The editor\agent always knows the best direction to take your story to publish it.
3) All editors have the same taste, so if editor 1-10 can't see your vision, editors 11-20 won't. So you might as well take editor one's advice.

This may be the rule, but there are exceptions. Lots of published books were rejected by "Many" editors who couldn't see the writer's vision. But sometimes, your book just hasn't found the right person yet.

Perhaps in most cases, works submitted need an overhaul, or in fact will never be bought. But when you are talking about an artistic venture, sometimes your work is actually on the right track, and you might actually diminish something that would not only eventually get published, but which might also benefit from simple polishing instead of a wholesale change.

I've seen this happen in music, which I am more familiar with. There's a great band, which should be nationally prominent. If you saw them live, you'd think they were one of the greats. Yet, you get producers who monkey with what "They" like, and think you should sound like. The end product was that they invested all of this time talent and money into a record that didn't sound like them. In fact, it stunk. They ended up missing their big chance, because like publishing, its better to have never published, than to have published and failed, because the next record company isn't going to take a chance on you.

However, I do realize that in general, most authors need major edits, and that editors mostly do know what's best. But what I think will happen if you get comments on your work by a pro, you would automatically assume their formulae is the one that will lead to success, and most new writers would be willing to do major surgery, and my caution is that sometimes, no answer might be a better answer.

mdin

03-11-2005, 08:23 AM

I always like it when I get rejection letters that go into detail, but I don't think it's all that realistic to expect them. What irritates me is when they don't even have form rejection letters. They just write 'No' or 'No thanks' on the first page of my submission and stuff it into my SASE.

I'm not a big fan of form rejections that use my SASE as a direct mail advertising opportunity either. It's true I usually only submit to markets I regularly read, but it's fairly insulting to get a letter that basically says "We're rejecting your work, but please buy a copy of the anthology filled with stories that are better than yours." I'd probably be interested in purchasing it if they accepted me or not, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

triceretops

03-11-2005, 02:01 PM

Hi Nomad--very good question.

Any editor that takes the time out to write personal comments, offer encouragement, or point you to another market has found something in your work that shows promise. Sometimes the longer the letter, the "nearer the miss."
I'll take 10-12 (written) rejections, read them over carefully and look for a trend. If I see that 7 out of 10 are telling me the same thing, it's time for me to fix or overhaul that problem. They're professionals--I trust (implicitly) what they are telling me--they do this for a living and I respect their position, no question about it. After accumulating 350 rejection slips and letters (years ago) I have a good sense of who might have passed on my manuscript without taking the time to read, and they are very few. I actually honed my skills to write publishable short stories because editors actually tutored me, and some editor/publishers felt sorry for me (no kidding) after I'd try to beat their doors down with 20 or 30 submissions.
I've never had to shelve a project, book or story because it was ultimately hopeless. I just didn't have time to spend on the 12 novels I wrote, which I have considered practice, and never sent them in anyway. (Most of them written in long-hand).
I've been lucky, until recently. I'm half way through a non-fiction book that describes a facinating discovery. It's catching four and five stars from agents and publishers alike, but I'm discovering a disconcerting trend--no platform.
The only degree in paleontology I have is 98.6, the facination and desire. If just one of them would tell me that I need a scientist/paleontologist as an edtior, co-author, or forward contributor I could understand it. I'm just about ready to shelve this or dump it altogether. And you know what? The science is right, just missing the credentials to back it up.
The point is, good editors and agents can flag this type of problem, and If I'd have known, or opened my eyes, this would have never happened. So editors and agents can be time-savers aswell as helpful. They don't mean to be cruel, better to nip it in the bud and be honest, cause' this folks, is a business.

Tri

Lauri B

03-11-2005, 04:59 PM

Hi Tri,
I obviously haven't read your proposal and I'm not sure what a "platform" is, but if the problem seems to be not having an expert write the book, I think it would be a great idea to find a co-author who has the appropriate experience to either insert "expert" commentary or even just review what you've written and give it the official paleontologist seal of approval (or whatever they give). The downside is that you've done (or will have done) the vast majority of the work on the book and you have to share the credit, but the upside is that the book immediately will have credibility, and it sounds like it might be more likely to be picked up if it has a co-author (or consulting editor, or however you want to work it) with the right letters after his or her name. This is exactly how we started our Go Parents! guide series of parenting books--I wrote the first book based on my experience as a parent, and found a terrific child psychologist to make sure I wasn't offering emotionally scarring information and that it followed the protocol for developmental theory. He also provided some terrific insights and added information that we included in the book, and we gave him co-author credit. After that, we worked together on all but one of the other books I wrote for the series, and the results have been really great.

triceretops

03-11-2005, 06:49 PM

Thanks for the logic in your reply. You did exactly the right thing in soliciting an expert for that parenting book, and it is because you care about your reading public, and with a large national market, your attention to the welfare of your readership brings great responsibility. I also have experts waiting in the wings in case I need them and have so stated in my proposal. I'm not afraid to share credit if that's what it takes. A worst case scenario would be that I take secondary credit as the "ghost" and settle for that. After that publication hump, I might then have at least credit as a "science writer" and there is such a thing. Next books on the subject would be much easier to place, for sure.
I'm in the infant stages of submitting this project--I need to let it runs it course a bit more. Our resident agent here, Andy Zack, was actually the first one to say, "Wow, great story and subject, but oops--got just a little prob with the credentials, here."

Tri

jdkiggins

03-13-2005, 01:16 AM

Hi all,
So here's a question from someone who is usually doing the rejecting (although believe me, I have a shelf full of rejections, many of them crookedly xeroxed and looking like a monkey might have sent them to me):
what is the best kind of rejection? Would you rather have feedback or just a "no" so you can move on to the next submission? Would you rather have an honest critique of your work(diplomatically phrased) and why it isn't working, or would you rather not get the "rework this, rework that" so you can keep submitting elsewhere quickly?

I get manuscripts in every day that are well written but really not going to be marketable for most publishers--the niche they are writing for is too small, or the market they are trying to reach is too broad for the subject, or the subject itself is just too obscure for a traditional publisher to want to try to market, etc. etc. So give me some feedback on this. I think it would be useful to hear what people have to say on this.

Nomad,
I think it's wonderful that you want feedback. I know editors are very busy, but rather than a resounding "no" I would love to receive input from editors. A few sentences of honest critique and why the piece didn't fit the editor's needs would be a plus when deciding whether to rewrite or trash an article.

:Clap: to you for taking time to ask.

Joanne

mistri

03-17-2005, 03:58 AM

I've been in the position of rejecting manuscripts myself, and always liked to give criticism when possible, though a lot of my colleagues would have been happy to send everything back with a form rejection (I agree there's no point wasting time on terrible writers, but it's nice to give the ones with promise something). I suppose because I wanted to write myself I empathised more with the people submitting their work.

The problem with personal replies, of course, is that it takes up a lot of time. However, many reasons for rejection do crop up again and again (work competent but no spark, too many coincidences, cliched writing, what I call 'misunderstanding/have a good conversation' plots, needs to learn how to write, etc). I used to have several form-ish letters, that would cover why that specific thing didn't work/meant their manuscript wasn't saleable, and there was a space for me to add more personal/specific comments if I wanted to.

Lauri B

03-17-2005, 04:50 AM

Yeah, the level of personalization from us varies greatly, depending on who gets the manuscript, reads it, and then sends out the rejection.

JoeEkaitis

03-19-2005, 06:48 AM

If an editor feels like commenting on a specific deficiency, she should be willing to read the submission again if the author makes the changes.

An editor at one of Scholastic's imprints pointed out what turned them off in the first three chapters of a middle reader novel, so I made the change and asked if she'd take another look.

She said, no, they weren't interested then, and they're not interested now.

dragonjax

03-21-2005, 10:43 PM

Hi, Lauri:

Give me a detailed, honest rejection any day over a vaguely worded form letter. It's impossible for me to improve the salability of my manuscript if I don't know why it's being rejected. If I want meaningless, encouraging words, I can turn to my family. ((grin)) Getting true feedback from an editor, even if it's vastly negative, is incredibly helpful. First, it helps me take a cold, hard look at my story. Second, it thickens my skin. ;-)

Jackie

Julie Worth

03-21-2005, 11:16 PM

I had an agent pass on a novel, saying that major publishers wouldn’t be interested in the subject matter. Maybe one of those places that sell books by mail, she suggested. After a couple of emails back and forth, she got mad and said of course publishers would be interested in the subject, the real reason was that my submission didn’t work as fiction. Well, I said, thanks! And really, I could work on the language, the characterization and so forth, but I couldn’t do much about the subject.

When an agent or editor says anything about my submission—anything definite and fixable—it’s like getting glittering diamonds and rubies in the mail.

Torgo

04-22-2005, 05:26 AM

I reject a lot of manuscripts. The problem for me is this: 99% of the things I read just aren't ever going to work, at all. A lot of them are really, really terrible. Because I work for a children's book publisher, the number of really terrible manuscripts is dramatically inflated; you could write a lot of bestselling picture books on the back of a cigarette packet, and it seems like everybody in the world has had a go. There's really nothing to say about these besides 'no thanks'. If you were honest about what you think, you could really offend people.

The rare ones that aren't terrible, I tend to write a letter to or at the least a paragraph or so on the reject slip. But writing letters can take a long time, so I don't want to be getting into reasons why the book wouldn't ever work, or try to fob people off with fakey reasons; nobody gets anything out of those correspondences (if the other posts are anything to go by, fobbing people off just leads to more work for the editor.)

I agree entirely that if you get feedback from an editor, you are entitled to have your work considered again, either a revision or a new submission. It's not their job to increase the quality or saleability of your work - unless they're hoping that they might want to buy it eventually. So, if you hear back, it's usually a 'near miss' as suggested above, and an encouraging sign.

Joni Holderman

04-25-2005, 05:58 AM

When an agent or editor says anything about my submission—anything definite and fixable—it’s like getting glittering diamonds and rubies in the mail.

Send me comments, please, I beg of you!!!

I'd just like to reiterate that ANYTHING specific you can say is greatly appreciated.

I think many of us appreciate comments on what constitutes marketable fiction, i.e.: I enjoyed your novel, but feel its targeted market of psychotic midget nudists in Antartica is too small. . . please consider targeting P.M.N.'s in Oklahoma next time.

Seriously, many writers are more flexible than editors suspect.

And, no, I don't think you "owe" us another reading after the changes are made. I think we should accept your comments for the free advice it truly is. If I were you, I would discard any arguments or rebuttals to your critique sent by writers. We can be a testy lot who tend to (try to) solve problems in print.

arkady

04-26-2005, 09:07 PM

There seems to be a diverse group addressing this topic -- short-story writers, nonfiction writers, novelists, editors (although perhaps no agents?), so I might as well add my own perspective.

I have so far submitted the query for my fantasy novel to 53 separate agencies. The result has been 53 separate form rejection letters and one (1) request for partial.

"You must have a lousy query letter!" is the obvious knee-jerk response. Well, maybe. But my query has been given a seal of approval by a published writer, and other test readers have found no obvious flaws with it. Grammar and spelling are all correct, formatting is correct. I've been streadily refining and improving the query letter over time. I don't know if it's relevant, but I'll add that these are snail-mail queries, not email. I follow all agency guidelines to the letter. I don't submit to agencies that have no interest in my genre. I always include a SSAE (which, except for the five agencies that haven't replied at all, I always get back).

And still, after 53 tries, nothing but form rejection slips that tell me nothing more useful than "dear author." Note again that I'm simply talking about the query letter here, not the manuscript itself, which hasn't even been read yet.

I haven't the faintest idea why I'm getting rejections. It can't be the writing, since only one of the agencies has even read a partial of the manuscript. Is the query letter still lacking in some way? Do agents believe that there's no market for the book? Do they think this book won't sell coming from a new author? Do they not like the concept of the book itself?

I don't know. I have no idea. Not one of the 53 agencies has scrawled "lousy query letter" or "I don't like the premise" or anything at all on any of the 53 form rejections. I'm boxing in the dark. I don't know what to improve because I don't know what's wrong. And it's driving me crazy.

Yes, I'm sure that editors and agents get nasty mail from crackpots who burst into flame at the slightest whiff of criticism. I'm not one of them. Yes, I know there are writers who unreasonably expect a detailed critique with each rejection. I'm not one of them. Yes, I know that some writers think that a rejection is a personal slur, rather than a business decision. I'm not one of them.

What I am is a conscientious, hard-working, careful, so-far-unpublished new writer who does his damndest to do things in the industry-standard professional manner. I put the maximum effort into complying with everyone's guidelines. And all I get is form rejections from my queries, and I don't know why.

I don't know how many others out there are in my shoes. Maybe I'm a lone canary in an empty field of squawking crows, and therefore statistically insignificant to the agenting/publishing industry. But I can tell you this: If I don't know what's wrong, I can't fix it.

I know well that there are plenty of unstable prima donnas out there who make you agents and editors think that it's not worth your while to scribble "no market for this" or "this query letter will never get you anywhere" at the bottom of a form rejection. Believe it or not, I understand how they make you feel, and how they'd make you want to wash your hands of any kind of specific feedback with a rejection. But please bear in mind -- as, I'm encouraged to see, a few of you actually do -- that expecting us legitimate, thoughtful adults to work completely in the dark, without the faintest idea of what's going wrong, brings just as much aggravation to us. Perhaps more, since being faced with a blank and silent wall makes it impossible to make any professional progress at all.

And again, for those skimmers who haven't read carefully through this impassioned rant, I'm talking about query letters here, not manuscripts.

Is this a whine? Maybe. Dancing in an empty room for 53 cycles of xeroxed form rejections is enough to drive anyone to whine -- or something even stronger. Thanks for sticking with me this long.

KTC

04-26-2005, 09:18 PM

I posted a rejection here yesterday. It left me feeling cold. It said "Thank you for your query, but we're not interested."

I was shocked. We are supposed to spend time researching markets, writing and rewriting synopsis and cover letters. I went for perfection at every turn with this submission. I also edited my manuscript repeatedly, wanting there to be no room for error. I was depressed to get such a glib reply.

A rejection is fine. I don't think I even need comments, though I always appreciate them. I just think that common decency would be nice. A form letter with a simple rejection would have appealed more to me than this.

Thanks for asking.

maestrowork

04-26-2005, 09:28 PM

Thank you for your query, but we're not interested

What's wrong with that? It sounds cordial. At least it didn't say "I got your query, but your story sucks, so we pass."

;)

maestrowork

04-26-2005, 09:33 PM

"You must have a lousy query letter!" is the obvious knee-jerk response. Well, maybe. But my query has been given a seal of approval by a published writer, and other test readers have found no obvious flaws with it.

Have you posted it on Share Your Work or something? Maybe some of us can take a look at it and see if there's anything wrong or if it needs improvement. Do you have a unique, great pitch?

Also, are you targeting the right market?

You do have to tough it out and keep sending it out, if you truly believe in your work. 53 rejections is still a small number, considering there are over 300 agents out there. But still, 1 request is low. I have gotten over 60 rejections but also, I believe, over 20 requests, and I don't necessarily write blockbuster thrillers.

KTC

04-26-2005, 09:33 PM

Do not interrupt my whine with your cheese!

maestrowork

04-26-2005, 09:34 PM

Do not interrupt my whine with your cheese!

Do you want some nuts to go with that?

LOL

brinkett

04-26-2005, 09:40 PM

considering there are over 300 agents out there.

Not so for many genres. Remember, you have to target agents that represent the stuff you're writing. If you're writing SF&F, for example, there are definitely less than 100 that accept unsolicitied queries, probably closer to 50. I researched agents for months and put together a list of reputable agents that accept unsolicited queries and represent SF&F. I've sent out to 30+ at this point and I'm down to perhaps 20 more and that's it. The list is empty, and it'll be on to publishers.

If I were to include agents that don't specifically exclude SF&F but don't list it either, I might be able to query 10 or 20 more, but they'd be longshots.

KTC

04-26-2005, 09:41 PM

Thank you, no. Momma says I'm already nuts enough!

maestrowork

04-26-2005, 09:47 PM

there are definitely less than 100 that accept unsolicitied queries

All queries are unsolicited. That's why they're called "queries."

But yes, you must target your market and that may mean only 100 agents would possibly be interested in your genre. Still, after agents, you may want to try small publishers who WILL accept queries or unsolicited mss. They are out there, especially for specific genres such as horror, sci-fi...

brinkett

04-26-2005, 10:04 PM

All queries are unsolicited. That's why they're called "queries."

There are agents who don't accept queries unless you've been referred to them or they've said you can query them after meeting you at a conference. They don't accept queries from Joe and Jane Blow. So there is such a thing as solicited vs. unsolicited queries. That's why AgentQuery.com oftens says about an agent, "does not accept unsolicited queries".

But yes, you must target your market and that may mean only 100 agents would possibly be interested in your genre. Still, after agents, you may want to try small publishers who WILL accept queries or unsolicited mss. They are out there, especially for specific genres such as horror, sci-fi...

The list is empty, and it'll be on to publishers.

DeadlyAccurate

04-27-2005, 08:39 PM

Arkady, I'm in the same boat as you. In my entire life of submitting novel queries, I've only ever gotten two requests for partials, out of over 64 queries. And those two were for my last book. The first two had a 100% form rejection rate. I'm hoping the help people here gave me will increase my rate of requests, but if someone, anyone, had just said, "This is a poorly written query," I would've known the problem before I reached 64 rejections.

P.S. Is it poorly-written, or poorly written?

maestrowork

04-27-2005, 10:18 PM

It's poorly written. It's a poorly-written book.

brinkett

04-27-2005, 11:41 PM

I'm hoping the help people here gave me will increase my rate of requests, but if someone, anyone, had just said, "This is a poorly written query," I would've known the problem before I reached 64 rejections.

Unless it has obvious spelling/grammar errors, I don't think they can. Much of their evaluation is subjective. Also, if you take a look at agent sites, writing sites, etc., you'll find contradictory advice on what should and shouldn't go into a query letter. So what doesn't work for one agent may work for another.

A query letter is working if you're getting nibbles. If you're not, then you have to consider that something is wrong with the query--don't wait for an agent to tell you. If you've received nothing but form rejections after sending out 10-20, then the query should be revised, or at least re-examined, before it's sent out again. That's why queries should never be shot-gunned. Send them out in batches. After each batch, the query may have to be revised, depending on the results.

Having said that, yes, it would be nice if there was a "why" included in the rejection, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon, which is why the only thing you have to go on is how many nibbles you are (or are not) getting.

azbikergirl

04-28-2005, 06:51 AM

A query letter is working if you're getting nibbles. If you're not, then you have to consider that something is wrong with the query--don't wait for an agent to tell you. If you've received nothing but form rejections after sending out 10-20, then the query should be revised, or at least re-examined, before it's sent out again.
Yes! But by then, I've 'burned the bridge' with that agent/publisher by sending a crappy query letter that didn't interest them when the manuscript itself might be just the thing they're looking for. Ugh!

I consider no reply to be an invitation to requery when the letter is rewritten. ;)

brinkett

04-28-2005, 04:16 PM

Yes! But by then, I've 'burned the bridge' with that agent/publisher by sending a crappy query letter that didn't interest them when the manuscript itself might be just the thing they're looking for. Ugh!

I know, and I feel your pain. But that's life. Some people requery with a revised letter after a healthy time period has passed. I'm not sure I would, but some people do.

I consider no reply to be an invitation to requery when the letter is rewritten. ;)
Me too. As far as I'm concerned, if I didn't get a reply, my query was lost in cyberspace or the mail. :cool:

IWrite

04-29-2005, 12:19 AM

When I first got into development, I would send out pretty comprehensive rejection letters - I would point out both the strengths and weaknesses and make suggestions of how to make the scripts better. As a writer myself, I thought that was the most helpful thing to do. Hell, I'd even give advice on the queries I was rejecting.

But the sheer volume of scripts I was reading - made it very difficult to continue to do it. Then on top of that so many of the scripts are so bad - it's almost impossible to give feedback that would make any real difference to the overall quality.

It's really difficult to know what to say when a submission is truly awful. Being honest doesn't seem like an option, but lying isn't an option either. So thanks but no thanks is the best way to go.

Now the only time I give specific reasons for the rejection and hopefully helpful feedback - is when I come across a script that is almost there, but isn't quite right for our company.

I do feel bad about the "thanks but no thanks" thing - but as I said it's such a high volume of rejections and reading and responding submissions is such a small part of my job.

eldragon

05-06-2005, 05:01 AM

I'm hoping I don't get rejected by a publisher.

Last week, I decided to send out two queries and whatever else a publisher accepted with it...first chapter, synopsis, etc.

One out of the first two sent last week - called me on the phone yesterday. An actual person, an actual name and an actual phone number. Of course, I was out buying printer ink and by the time I got home, it was too late to call.

So, I called this morning and she said "I was just about to call you!" She is intrigued by my first chapter, synopsis, outline, query.......and wants to read the whole manuscript.

Even better ......she told me "it sounds like you have a large book there, you can email it if you want." Believe me, I want.

So, I emailed her the book - she emailed me back with information about the place she works - Adams Media Corp - said she looked forward to reading my work and would be in touch soon.

She also said
"In the mean time, if you’d like to know more about our publishing house: we are a mid-size and growing independent publisher located just outside of Boston. We publish general non-fiction books in a wide variety of categories. We have a website, www.adamsmedia.com, which can give you an idea of our other titles, but keep in mind as you look it over that the site is currently under construction (hence the somewhat dated appearance).

Sounds good to me! She also wanted to know if I was working on anything else.

Wish me luck!

azbikergirl

05-06-2005, 06:55 AM

Wow! That's awesome! Keep us posted. :)

triceretops

05-06-2005, 09:19 AM

Well, my ice age discovery book has been put on hold for about 1 1/2 months, because I'm nearing the home stretch on a novel.

But I just heard from the editorial director from Indiana University Press that he was very surprised that I hadn't contacted him or sent in my hardcopy proposal. My computer crashed twice in the last two months, so I suspect I never got his email.

Just wondering, is it very common for an editor to follow up like this concearning a query? Heck, I thought it was the other way around! Though it's certainly, no sale, it has proven to me that many editors keep track of queries, and if you fail to deliver, they put a torch under you. I guess he was really looking forward to the submission--kinda' bowled me over!

I sent it today with appologies, and hope that if he finds promise in it, he'll suggest some re-writing. This time, I was very honest about the trouble I've been having with it, aside from most of the glowing enthusiasm.

Tri

Hi, Nomad! Good to see your words.:Sun:

Lauri B

05-06-2005, 07:18 PM

Adams Media is a very well-respected publisher. Good luck!

Lauri B

05-06-2005, 07:19 PM

eldragon

05-06-2005, 11:27 PM

Thanks Nomad, for telling me something good! I got a letter rejection from another publisher today (Academy Chicago Publishers), with a handwritten message on it "this is interesting buts I'm afraid not quite what we are looking for."

I had sent them 3 chapters.

Anyway .......I'll just keep sending out two per week until I hear something. Waiting is so stressful .......I'm so full of doubt sometimes.

triceretops

05-06-2005, 11:44 PM

Eldragon, that's a perfectly natural reaction--waiting on responses, figuring we'll be found out for the fakes that we are! Classic. Not to worry. Get rapped up in another project, fall deeply in love with it and the frets will go away.

Triceratops

MacAllister

05-06-2005, 11:51 PM

Lauri, thanks for even considering sending detailed reponses. You're braver than I would be, in your shoes.

I love the more detailed rejections--and I gotta admit, I've been pretty lucky so far: the rejections I get are mostly along the lines of, "this started a bit slow for our target audience, but it's bound to sell to someone else..." or "this made it through all the various levels of reading, but after we'd passed it around a few times, it just didn't have quite enough votes from the editorial staff for us to buy it..."

Inevitably, those poor souls move up the list of places I sub to, first. :)

err--and just in case anyone still hasn't read it, here's a link to Slushkiller (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html). Both the essay and the comments that follow are well worth the time spent. I reread it all, periodically. It's actually weirdly encouraging.

eldragon

05-12-2005, 12:18 AM

After receiving a form rejection from the Andrew Zack Co., I got up the nerve to call Adams Media (I do have the editor's number after all).

She said no decision has been made, and that they decide in a group meeting. She also said that "she's not sure it will be right for them." So, I went out on a limb and said "So, it doesn't sound like it will work, then?" And she said "No, I like what I've read so far, but its not my decision."

As far as I'm concerned, it sure feels like a rejection.

I'm so tired of getting my hopes up. I really don't know what else to do.

Lauri B

05-12-2005, 05:05 PM

I don't think she's telling you no--she's telling you that it's not her decision. Don't read so much into it. We also decide by committee what we'll publish here at Nomad, and we don't meet every week about manuscripts, so it sounds like they have a similar procedure. Try to be patient. She sounds like she's in your corner, so you have at least one champion.

I know this isn't going to make you feel better if you do get rejected, but you obviously have enough talent and your manuscript is obviously good enough to be considered by a legitimate, successful publishing company--you are so much farther along than many, many aspiring writers. And per your comments on another thread--you're absolutely right--some really crappy writers get great books deals and it just doesn't seem fair. But don't give up, and don't get down on yourself. At this point for this publisher you have done everything right and everything you can do. So to be pro-active about your writing career, get going on other projects. Forget about this one until you get an acceptance or a rejection. Always think about your next manuscript or article or interview--it's the only way to make it work.

Good luck--I'm rooting for you!
Lauri

eldragon

05-12-2005, 05:29 PM

Thanks Laurie.

I have alot at stake, I guess.

I am so desperate for positive reinforcement.

I've suffered nothing but personal defeat for the past 6 years. I was stabbed in the back by a long term employer, who moved me across country then fired me.
I lost everything I had, and filed a lawsuit against them for breach of contract. Their corporate lawyers have blocked everything my lawyer has tried to do. I was blacklisted for filing a lawsuit, making it impossible to get another job of any kind. I went from darned near having it all to having nothing.

I felt better writing, but didn't know that getting a book published is so hard. I was naive enough to think that writing the book would be the hard part.

So basically, getting published is something I need for my own self preservation. I'm not asking to be rich or famous, or to write a bestseller, but just to see what I wrote in print would be nice.

I'm not looking for a handout or sympathy, just hoping something positive can come out of this mess.

Thanks again.

triceretops

05-12-2005, 06:25 PM

Hang in there, eldragon. We're rootin' for you. Laurie is quite right--blast the market with submissions and get right to work on something else. I had to that, after suffering though a very academic non-fic book that I slaved over. I had to press on with another and now I'm 70,000 words into it, after 40 days. Just get obstinent--don't let it defeat you.

Tri

aruna

05-15-2005, 11:51 PM

Hello, Nomad! How wonderful that you even ask, and then take the time to respond to us, and so kindly. Thank you! I too have some questions...

Somebody wrote earlier:

" like publishing, its better to have never published, than to have published and failed, because the next record company isn't going to take a chance on you."

How do you feel about this? I have three novels published with a major UK publisher, but they were not the success the publisher hoped for; mainly because, I believe, that I was wrongly marketed - and I left them before writing my fourth book. Now it is up for sale.

Will I be seen as a failure, or do I get credit for my publishing history? I have sent out a few query letters to publishers and agents with a 100% success rate, in that all those who responded at all requested a partial or, in the case of the one publisher, a full ms. (one rejection from an agent who said he would have been interested but he was not taking on any clients now).

The publisher who asked for the full is a top notch one, and my very first choice, so I don't want to screw up. How much do I tell them about why I was dissatisfied with my last publisher and agent? Anything at all? Should I emphasize my publishing history giving details of sales etc, or do iI gloss over it? In some foreign translations, my books did rather well - should I mention this?

I know that in the end it comes dowm to whether the commissioning editor loves my novel or not, but I am aware that in the aquisitions meeting my publishing history WILL be considered, and I'm just not sure how to present this.

Lauri B

05-16-2005, 04:52 PM

I have three novels published with a major UK publisher, but they were not the success the publisher hoped for; mainly because, I believe, that I was wrongly marketed - and I left them before writing my fourth book. Now it is up for sale.

Will I be seen as a failure, or do I get credit for my publishing history? .

Hi Aruna!
If your books were published by a traditional, royalty-based publisher (not a vanity press), then by all means, include them. The publisher interested in your work can check out past sales of your book, and the fact that you think it had disappointing sales isn't necessarily a reflection on you or your skills as a novelist. Some books are just selling duds--it's as simple as that--and the fact that other respectable publishers have taken you on is a definite point in your favor.

I would simply list the books and the publisher and if you had any great reviews from quality trade publications or major media (newspapers, mags., etc.). You can say something like, "Title of novel received glowing reviews in The Guardian, the Times and Hello! magazine" and leave it at that.
Good luck!

aruna

05-16-2005, 09:40 PM

Thanks, Nomad!
Yes, they were by a traditional publisher, HarperCollins to be precise. I will do as you say and keep my fingers crossed!

Liam Jackson

05-17-2005, 11:58 PM

Eld, I can empathize with you and your situation. Write, polish, and sumbit until Hell can't hold another ms.

All the best to you.

SGMwriter

05-20-2005, 05:43 AM

I had Harbor House Publishers--a small Georgia publisher hold my ms for 8 months only to reject it. They said they thought it was too risky for them. I could understand that, since it's a Vietnam War novel and some folks are touchy about that. However, in the same letter, they offered to publish it if I paid for it. I had to buy 1,000 copies of my own book at discount, and then they'd sell the rest of the press run by conventional means to distributors, etc. It would cost me $19,000 for hardcover or $14,000 for paperback. I could keep all the money I made selling my thousand copies, and get 30% royalty on what they sold. How lame is that??

Maldon

05-27-2005, 05:11 AM

That's pretty lame SMG.

This whole thread has been fun to read, because I've been banging my head into a wall on this issue of feedback from editors. Of the seven editors I have heard from who have requested and read my book, every one of them has been very praiseworthy in their response. It's been strangely gratifying - I mean when one of the publishers I most respect says my book is chilling and macabre, well, that made my day. Except of course they all still rejected it. I've been scratching my head and eating Andes Candies over it for like a week now. I'm being very earnest - only one of the seven had any suggestion for an improvement. The rest all sent letters specific to the book that were praiseworthy. And none of them wanted it. Which kind of only makes it worse in the end. So if there are any editors listening while praise is WONDERFUL vould you also make sure you explain WHY your passing on the book, if onyl for my sanity and waistline?

popmuze

07-14-2005, 01:13 AM

I have had a similar experience recently with a book that was read by two editors at two different major publishing houses. Their rejection letters (emails actually) contained some of the best adjectives I've gotten in my career (which covers a dozen published books, but no published adult novels) but ended with the dreaded "not for us."

What I'm wondering is, given such a response, would they be alarmed at a follow up phone call from me, trying to find out even more specifics about how close the book actually came? Can you ever turn such a rejection around? If an editor liked so much about the book, why wouldn't they be willing to work with you on it?

Are they actually rejecting the book for some reason other than the writing?

triceretops

07-14-2005, 04:05 AM

Popmuse: I wouldn't do a follow-up call on a near miss, no matter how praise-worthy. Editors are human and, believe me, they understand how much work goes into a manuscript--at the very least months, and sometimes years. Their comments are a way of positive reinforcement, telling you that you show promice, and to forge on. They're in the business of rejecting 99% of the day, and some of them have told me it really bites to have to turn away obvious talent. But they are under voluminous retraints in every area of publishing you can imagine--style, over-stocked inventory, slush glut, marketing considerations, and many, many others. If I were you, I would seek out new and exciting markets. Above all, don't take all of these near-misses to heart. If you send any follow-up, you might ask if they were hep to seeing any other work you might have.

Triceratops

Andrew Zack

07-14-2005, 05:58 PM

I routinely write detailed rejection letters saying exactly why I've passed on something if I'm either interested in seeing more from the author or I see something that can be fixed. If I simply don't think I can sell it or that there's no hope for it, I use a form note on a card. Additionally, I use readers on a fair amount of material and I usually have them write a detailed rejection letter incorporating their comments from their reader's reports. They sign those letters themselves, so there's no confusion about who read the material or is responding.

The form note card is used on 99% of the rejected queries and a good portion of the sample chapters. I know authors would like detailed feedback, but that's not the business agents are in. That's what editorial consultants and book doctors are for, I feel.

Best,
Andy