virginia henley-- you're busted!

preyer · Mar 4, 2005

my wife loves this author, virginia henley. i picked up a couple of her books out of curiosity, and while i don't see anything there other than contrived dialogue and smut, smut, smut (not always a bad thing, but not always good, either (basically it's what i call wal*mart porn)), i could really care less what she reads for the most part.

but the other day i was sitting upon my throne, kinda sick of the hand-held 'battleship' game, and there was 'dream lover,' a bright yellow, 420 page sex-fest just laying around. i got to page two before getting bored, but one thing kinda gnawed at me. i'll copy the paragraph:

'sean's dark eyes lifted to gaze upward, spellbound by the beauty he had stumbled upon. the high-vaulted cave glittered with iridescence, scattering myriads of rainbows across the surface of the water, turning it into a magic pool. then his innate intelligence overruled his imagination as he realized he was on the island of angelsey, wales. this mineral must therefore be anglesite, sulphate of lead in white prismatic crystals that were semitransparent, giving off an adamantine luster that resembled the sparkle of diamonds.'

okay, whatever. then i wondered what time era this whole romp was supposed to take place in, it being a historical 'romance,' given ol' sean's self-assurance of the mineral he was looking at (not to mention the nearly naked girl riding a dolphin in the cave-- okay, whatever, again). scanning through the book, i didn't find any real evidence when the story took place, no solid dates, no historical detail (none that i found, anyway, though certainly she would have clued the reader in at some point, just i hadn't stumbled upon it). however... in the author's notes she writes: 'however, the sailing time between these two places would have been longer in the eighteenth century than i have suggested. i took such license for the benefit of telling a love story.'

license, indeed. the 18th century, you say? so, you mean the 1700's? of course that's what she means, that's what she said. only problem is, anglesite wasn't discovered until-- 1832!

busted, baby!

ah, i love it when i catch 'em red-handed, don't you?

the sad thing is my wife thinks her books are so well-written, yet i'd not have questioned it were the whole crystal idea not so poorly introduced in an out-of-kilter way. apparently, 'innate intelligence' is synonomous with seeing into the future, too.

i know i shouldn't expect much from a book that's indulging in oral sex by page 8 (no joke), but still, good research and a *modicum* of restraint *should* separate us from flat-out porn peddlers, shouldn't it? lol.

i should probably have a talk with my wife while i'm at it.

Fresie · Mar 4, 2005

Preyer,

Thanks for the laugh!

Things people read... and write!

Sassenach · Mar 4, 2005

preyer said:
my wife loves this author, virginia henley. i picked up a couple of her books out of curiosity, and while i don't see anything there other than contrived dialogue and smut, smut, smut (not always a bad thing, but not always good, either (basically it's what i call wal*mart porn)), i could really care less what she reads for the most part.

b

the sad thing is my wife thinks her books are so well-written, yet i'd not have questioned it were the whole crystal idea not so poorly introduced in an out-of-kilter way. apparently, 'innate intelligence' is synonomous with seeing into the future, too. i know i shouldn't expect much from a book that's indulging in oral sex by page 8 (no joke), but still, good research and a *modicum* of restraint *should* separate us from flat-out porn peddlers, shouldn't it? lol.

i should probably have a talk with my wife while i'm at it.

Gee, your wife is lucky to have such a 'smart' husband...and one who lets her read what she wants.

Takvah · Mar 4, 2005

If your wife enjoys it... and she isn't anal about when the mineral was discovered or for that matter what it even is... does this really matter?

See if I was going to take issue with anything, it would likely be the fact that you read on the throne *snickers*. I don't really understand that whole "thing".

Whether you approve or not, most books are written for entertainment, and beyond that, the little inaccuracies are hardly relevant. I think perhaps you have more of an issue with the fact that your wife prefers this drivel, to your work? Oh the sting. *grins*

maestrowork · Mar 4, 2005

Leave your wife's vice alone, if you want to live happily ever after. I mean, do you want your wife to moan and groan and ***** about the stupidity of the video games you play? Or the golf tournaments you love so much? Or the slasher/horror you read? Or the ... you get the idea.

Maryn · Mar 4, 2005

Still, it fills me with a most unseemly amount of smug self-satisfaction to catch a popular author making a major gaffe--even if few of the readers will ever know (or would care if they did).

Maryn, who clearly has 'issues'

Deleted member 42 · Mar 4, 2005

preyer said:
i should probably have a talk with my wife while i'm at it.

Lord, Preyer, don't go there. Let her read what she wants. You should perhaps take a look at some of the romance reader/writer discussion forums to see how other wives took similar discussions.

Julian Black · Mar 4, 2005

preyer said:
'sean's dark eyes lifted to gaze upward, spellbound by the beauty he had stumbled upon. the high-vaulted cave glittered with iridescence, scattering myriads of rainbows across the surface of the water, turning it into a magic pool. then his innate intelligence overruled his imagination as he realized he was on the island of angelsey, wales. this mineral must therefore be anglesite, sulphate of lead in white prismatic crystals that were semitransparent, giving off an adamantine luster that resembled the sparkle of diamonds.'

[cringes]

Those poor, poor words. I want to find proper homes for them, placing them in good, solid sentences where they will actually serve a purpose.

Oral sex by page 8? Works for me. But I shudder to imagine sex scenes written in this style. I predict there will be at least one mention of a "tumescent member" in there, somewhere.

preyer · Mar 4, 2005

you mean there are video games that make you smart? i'll be darned. in that case, my 14 year old nephew is destined to be a super-genius.

apparently, i didn't make myself clear. i don't care what she reads. you're right, too, she doesn't like what i write. ca sera sera, eh? this wasn't supposed to be about what she reads or even so much about what i think of the author's writing ability (which sales-wise i'll never match given another lifetime). in my effort to be cute, it seems i've offended (or maybe i'm misreading that after twenty hours of awakedness, lol). ah, well, so it goes, i suppose. now, though, i feel as if there's a point to defend.

and that point is the obvious 'license' taken with historical facts. let me see if i'm getting this straight: a writer can, by page two, willfully (for surely in researching anglesite to the point of finding out it's lead sulphate, isn't it reasonable to infer that she would know when it was discovered, too?) disregard historic fact as long as it's for entertainment? doesn't 'historic' imply a certain level of those little things called FACTS? 'but, preyer, it's just stupid entertainment. lighten up!' what, exactly, is smart entertainment?

does it matter to my wife? no. should it? that's up to her. does it matter to me? you betcha. i expect the 'facts' i read to be accurate just on the off-chance i remember them to use for some purpose later on. if i lose fifty grand when alex trebek asks me when anglesite was discovered, and i say the 18th century which is wrong, i'd be pissed. hell, i'm not *particularly* anal about it: i can allow for some elasticity, but i refuse to let one plus one equal three. it's not like i've got a periodic table tattooed on my chest, but, come on, this sucker might as well have said in bold-face red letters 'research me if i sound cheesy.'

t, i see the humour in your post. i appreciate that. but, yeah, i think the inaccuracies are important to eliminate. that opening scene had a girl in a cave riding a dolphin. i didn't question any of that. i thought it was kind of silly, but, hey, to each his own. though it's my opinion she's a hackneyed and over-sexed writer (who, it seems upon further investigation, is rather loathe to add much 'fact' (read: research) into much else of the story), she's sold a lot of books. which makes it frustrating for me when i chase down a detail to the nth degree for accuracy's sake, and change the scene if the facts flat-out contradict what i want to have happen, while some new york times bestselling author is busted literally by page two by some schlub who just opened her book for the first time. is it drivel? well, yeah. but, that's okay. i highly doubt anything i'll ever write is going to change the world. that's not the point, is it?

i was kinda hoping to get a couple of 'oh, yeah, i busted so-and-so on this-and-that once.' now i'm beginning to remember why i stopped posting new threads in this forum, lol.

m, you don't actually think i play golf, do you? nah, i can't afford the golf balls. negatory on the slasher stuff, too. don't fish, either. but, hey, i'll go sky-diving with anyone who wants to stop by dayton.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 4, 2005

Maryn said:
Still, it fills me with a most unseemly amount of smug self-satisfaction to catch a popular author making a major gaffe--even if few of the readers will ever know (or would care if they did).

Henley is actually notorious for making far greater gaffes than this.

TemlynWriting · Mar 4, 2005

preyer said:
'sean's dark eyes lifted to gaze upward, spellbound by the beauty he had stumbled upon. the high-vaulted cave glittered with iridescence, scattering myriads of rainbows across the surface of the water, turning it into a magic pool. then his innate intelligence overruled his imagination as he realized he was on the island of angelsey, wales. this mineral must therefore be anglesite, sulphate of lead in white prismatic crystals that were semitransparent, giving off an adamantine luster that resembled the sparkle of diamonds.'

Unless that mineral was going to have an key part somewhere else in the story, it sounds like she's trying to sound intelligent, adding information just for the sake of looking smart. Mind you, I'm not saying she isn't smart. I just think that sounds very contrived, that is, unless it's going to come into play again in the story, and is there as a reference for readers to read and remember.

Julian Black said:
[cringes]

Those poor, poor words. I want to find proper homes for them, placing them in good, solid sentences where they will actually serve a purpose.

Oral sex by page 8? Works for me. But I shudder to imagine sex scenes written in this style. I predict there will be at least one mention of a "tumescent member" in there, somewhere.

And I agree with Julian Black, as well. The poor words. And the sex scenes. I read those types of books in my middle school romance-reading phase. The sex is usually quite unrealistic, just like movies also make it out to be. I won't add TMI here, but it just is unrealistic in most cases.

JMHO

TemlynWriting · Mar 4, 2005

Maryn said:
Still, it fills me with a most unseemly amount of smug self-satisfaction to catch a popular author making a major gaffe--even if few of the readers will ever know (or would care if they did).

Maryn, who clearly has 'issues'

I must have "issues," too.

preyer · Mar 4, 2005

she seems to be a pretty graphic writer where it counts. for me, i think at the end of one of her books i'd be bored with sex. for my wife, it just works her up and gives her unrealistic expectations, heh heh. guys, i really don't care what she reads. seriously, this stuff is basically thinly veiled porn. it's just not designed for me to enjoy, just like what i write isn't designed for my wife. it reminds me of a poor-woman's anais nin (another writer i couldn't get through, despite being given a copy by some chick i worked with-- hey, if that ain't a big 'do me' sign, i don't know what is).

so, gentlemen, i guess there's a lesson to be learned here. first, women want to have sex with preyer. i think that's a given, though. second, if a chick hands you a copy of ms. henley's books, take the hint. play it cool, but find out which was her favourite chapter. need i say more? if i went into more detail, i might turn into a romantic type of slob myself... if your definition of 'romantic' features cameo appearances by ron jeremy.

TemlynWriting · Mar 4, 2005

preyer said:
she seems to be a pretty graphic writer where it counts. for me, i think at the end of one of her books i'd be bored with sex. for my wife, it just works her up and gives her unrealistic expectations, heh heh.

Kind of like how porn gives men unrealistic expectations & views of women.

maestrowork · Mar 4, 2005

Preyer, I'm in Cincy and I sky dive!!!

I know what you mean -- a glaring mistake like that would throw someone off. And how dare a best selling author would be so careless about her facts!

However, remember who Henley's audience is -- it's not a scientific, history buff like you. It is the cockeyed, romantically/erotically-inclided housewives. They don't read these books to learn the facts of life or how the world works. If the girl rides a dolphin, then she rides a dolphin. If she finds kryptonite in the cave, she finds kryptonite. If her lover has a 2-foot long lovetool, so be it. It's a fantasy for the readers, and factual accuracy be damned.

I think your wife knows how silly these books are (I assume you didn't marry he for her looks alone...) but she enjoys them because they are silly fun... much like why people enjoy Ed Wood's bad movies or Godzilla. I know an insanely talented and smart person who simply loves all BAD movies. I mean REALLY bad. That's his thing.

Just be glad that your wife reads these to up her sex drive. More joy to you!

TemlynWriting · Mar 4, 2005

I love some of the geared-toward-women popular chick-lit out there, like the Bridget Jones books, because it's witty, a bit more realistic with (sexual) expectations, and just fun to read. I guess it's a bit more light-hearted than a lot of the romance novels. I love reading about lovey stuff, but I just don't do the heavy-romance novels anymore. I think books like Bridget Jones' Diary, about characters like Bridget, are turning a new leaf for women. We get to laugh with a character who's a bit more like us, who may not get a knight in shining armor, but we love our knights in blue jeans even more.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 4, 2005

Here's a review of the book in question.

Most of Henley's books are similarly reviewed; an argument has been made, more than once, that she isn't a romance writer, that she's really writing erotica (or porn). The distinction seems to be made because of a lack of emotional involvement on the part of her characters. She's often compared to Beatrice Small.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 4, 2005

Henley

preyer said:
my wife loves this author, virginia henley. i picked up a couple of her books out of curiosity, and while i don't see anything there other than contrived dialogue and smut, smut, smut (not always a bad thing, but not always good, either (basically it's what i call wal*mart porn)), i could really care less what she reads for the most part.

but the other day i was sitting upon my throne, kinda sick of the hand-held 'battleship' game, and there was 'dream lover,' a bright yellow, 420 page sex-fest just laying around. i got to page two before getting bored, but one thing kinda gnawed at me. i'll copy the paragraph:

'sean's dark eyes lifted to gaze upward, spellbound by the beauty he had stumbled upon. the high-vaulted cave glittered with iridescence, scattering myriads of rainbows across the surface of the water, turning it into a magic pool. then his innate intelligence overruled his imagination as he realized he was on the island of angelsey, wales. this mineral must therefore be anglesite, sulphate of lead in white prismatic crystals that were semitransparent, giving off an adamantine luster that resembled the sparkle of diamonds.'

okay, whatever. then i wondered what time era this whole romp was supposed to take place in, it being a historical 'romance,' given ol' sean's self-assurance of the mineral he was looking at (not to mention the nearly naked girl riding a dolphin in the cave-- okay, whatever, again). scanning through the book, i didn't find any real evidence when the story took place, no solid dates, no historical detail (none that i found, anyway, though certainly she would have clued the reader in at some point, just i hadn't stumbled upon it). however... in the author's notes she writes: 'however, the sailing time between these two places would have been longer in the eighteenth century than i have suggested. i took such license for the benefit of telling a love story.'

license, indeed. the 18th century, you say? so, you mean the 1700's? of course that's what she means, that's what she said. only problem is, anglesite wasn't discovered until-- 1832!

busted, baby!

ah, i love it when i catch 'em red-handed, don't you?

the sad thing is my wife thinks her books are so well-written, yet i'd not have questioned it were the whole crystal idea not so poorly introduced in an out-of-kilter way. apparently, 'innate intelligence' is synonomous with seeing into the future, too. i know i shouldn't expect much from a book that's indulging in oral sex by page 8 (no joke), but still, good research and a *modicum* of restraint *should* separate us from flat-out porn peddlers, shouldn't it? lol.

i should probably have a talk with my wife while i'm at it.

Try reading some of her other books. Trust me, it all gets worse. Much worse. She's a writer who sells because of the sex, and some of the writing will make you want to swear off books forever. And as far as I can tell, she's never even heard the word "research."

maestrowork · Mar 4, 2005

A good question is, why do her books sell? I've seen better written erotica for women by women. Or romance. So what is it about her writing that women just kept coming back for... Preyer, maybe it's a good question to ask your wife.

allion · Mar 4, 2005

maestrowork said:
<chop>If her lover has a 2-foot long lovetool, so be it.<chop>

This is why I really shouldn't read these forums at work.

Made my day. :roll:

Karen

Takvah · Mar 4, 2005

Well there are many books with inaccuracies in them, even well researched books contain them. I would be critical of such an error if the author was writing with a true intent to be "factually" accurate. If this woman is writing erotica, then beyond knowing inventive terms for sticking something in someone, we shouldn't expect much. That's all I was saying.

I am very lucky, my wife digs horror and sci-fi and just happens to look like Stevie Nicks circa 1982. *Silently wonders how many kids here are asking themselves, "Who the hell is Stevie Nicks?"*. My ex-wife loved romance novels. I felt the same way you do preyer, I thought they were a total waste of time and pulp. I mean she was reading crap with FABIO on the cover! For shame! Anyway, we weren't very romantic anymore, given that we hated one another it was logical... so it didn't really matter to me. My point is this, do you ever feel like she might be cheating on you with those books? You kinda hinted at some animosity when you said it gave her unrealistic expectations. So, has she commented on you not being romantic enough?

LOL... poor preyer, getting shrunk over a post that knit picked a cheap paperback writer. Come on it's Friday, I'm just having some FUN!

Tak

I am reminded of a joke, sure to tick off the women here....

Why is PMS named PMS? Because mad cow was already taken.

Priceless.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 4, 2005

maestrowork said:
A good question is, why do her books sell? I've seen better written erotica for women by women. Or romance. So what is it about her writing that women just kept coming back for... Preyer, maybe it's a good question to ask your wife.

I've seen much better written erotica, but I've seldom seen such blatant erorica. If you read "romance" for the sex, Henley's your gal.

I think Henley is the very rare exception; a very bad writer who sells a lot of novels. But there's an old saying that goes, "If you want to be pubished, you can write well, or you can write sex."

Henley knows her strengths and weaknesses, and she knows how to push a sex scene right to the limit of what the romance genre will allow. She writes the ultimate larger than life (pun intended) hero seducing the reader with wonderful sex novel.

She was a bone of contention (ah, the puns) when I was a member of the RWA, and seemed to be either loved or hated by everyone. There was no middle ground.

Takvah · Mar 4, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I think Henley is the very rare exception; a very bad writer who sells a lot of novels. But there's an old saying that goes, "If you want to be pubished, you can write well, or you can write sex."

Hmmm.... this from the board sage.

*Contemplates getting a fake fur jacket, a purple hat, and giving himself the pen name Pimp Cane*

So sex sells? Who would've thunk it!? And here we are trying to be highbrow and articulate!

preyer · Mar 4, 2005

ya know, i never even thought about checking out her reviews. from that link, this link struck me as one of the themes:

'The English are vile, depraved, greedy, and disgusting' ~ who was it what said the reason the sun never sets on the british empire is because even god doesn't trust the english in the dark? no offense to my brit friends, but, c'mon, that's funny.

on a more serious note, do these books warp my poor wife's virginal mind?

wait for it, preyer, wait for it....

bwawawawawawa! 'virginal' is hardly a descriptor i'd use, heh heh. but, yeah, she does complain i'm not very romantic, which is nonsense. granted, lately i haven't had the time to build her a castle or conquer the evil hordes, but, hey, i was working 16 hour daze, gimme a break. in fact, i'm kinda a romantic sap at heart, but that stuff doesn't work on her. if it does, she sure doesn't show any appreciation for it. for example, for valentine's day, i came home after a 12 hour day and thought it'd be cute if i wore an apron from work that i drew 'the anatomy of your husband' on, with the heart full o' love, lungs that breath only for you, blah blah blah. yet, upon first seeing the silly thing, she first wanted to show me the stuff she ordered off ebay and got in the mail that day, *then* she paid me a minute's attention. so, no, i don't tend to go out of my way like that anymore, lol.

and, yeah, i wonder if women who read these things are trying to fill some kind of void. this henley writer really isn't her typical kind of read, she bought a lot of books by the author in an auction. it's an interesting question. does what you read indicate something about your personality that otherwise can't be inferred through a normal conversation? hmmm....

hey, m, if you're still in cincy when the weather breaks, we'll hook up. i still have to jump tandem, but only b/c i can't find anyone else who'll jump with me, lol. doesn't sound like much fun going by myself.

t, i figured ya were playing around. i just used the opportunity to rant about something that irks me, lol. i'm hardly a historian, so it's a major personal coup when i discover a whoopsi. sure, if it's some massive story full of details, something small that i can give the benefit of the doubt to... well, that's probably not going to ruin it. but, cripes, if you've got five details in your whole book and you screw one of them up, that's pretty sorry, lol.

arrowqueen · Mar 4, 2005

Nonsense. You're just a typical bloke. My beloved's exactly the same. There you are, watching 'Titanic' with the tears tripping you and he's sitting there going: 'That aft engine's not technically accurate, you know.'

aq

virginia henley-- you're busted!

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She Who Runs The Waves

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excessively spartan

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