Through the end of the tunnel- a guiding hand.

Nateskate · Dec 14, 2007

I wish I could have a second inside some great writers' heads to see how they put stories together. In a previous thread I asked who else here had killer chapters that were a bear to write, because I was writting several bear chapters which will appear in Book Three.

I don't have writer's block. I simply have come to a part of the story where I have writer's drag. I have the parts written, but it's kind of like a wrestling match to tame it. Particularly, "Is this too much or too little? Is this character interesting or cloying?"

I'm not certain whether the reader will love it, get bogged down, or hate it. And at some point I think I may need to go back to Beta Readers to get their feel. Then again, I guess I could just pass the story straight to the publisher, but I'd rather have it in the best shape possible before giving them anything.

In terms of progress, the publisher still has to send me edits on book one. Book two is pretty much done and waiting to send to them. I have time to work with book three.

Do any of you writers who've written a series deal with Beta readers throughout the process?

CheshireCat · Dec 14, 2007

No.

I learned to trust my own instincts a long time ago. My agent sees the work at the same time the editor sees it. Until then, nobody sees it but me.

But different writers work best in different ways.

As for seeing inside the mind of a great writer, I know enough highly successful writers well enough to feel confident in saying that if you could do that, you'd find them as chaotic and screwed-up as the rest of us.

IMO, doubting and questioning comes with the territory, and none of us have all the answers.

jannawrites · Dec 14, 2007

I think CeCe's got a point: Trust your instincts. Apparently something's not working with #3, because you're stewing over it. I'd say let those chapters sit for a bit (since you've currently got the luxury of time) and then they'll work themselves out. I think you'll feel it when they're perfect. And since you've already got your publisher, etc, it's not like you need betas for confirmation of your talents and skills. You know?

Nateskate · Dec 19, 2007

CheshireCat said:
No.

I learned to trust my own instincts a long time ago. My agent sees the work at the same time the editor sees it. Until then, nobody sees it but me.

But different writers work best in different ways.

As for seeing inside the mind of a great writer, I know enough highly successful writers well enough to feel confident in saying that if you could do that, you'd find them as chaotic and screwed-up as the rest of us.

IMO, doubting and questioning comes with the territory, and none of us have all the answers.

Thanks for your thoughts. I muddled through the difficult parts. Still, I may need to separate myself long enough to look at it objectively. Now I'm going back to look at the edits in Book Two.

I'm always comforted when I like my own stories, but I'm not as objective as other readers are. There have been parts I worried wouldn't do it that others loved.

Beta Readers have been terribly helpful in the past. They gave me the confidence to keep going when I worried my story was decompensating into a trainwreck.

Nateskate · Dec 19, 2007

jannawrites said:
I think CeCe's got a point: Trust your instincts. Apparently something's not working with #3, because you're stewing over it. I'd say let those chapters sit for a bit (since you've currently got the luxury of time) and then they'll work themselves out. I think you'll feel it when they're perfect. And since you've already got your publisher, etc, it's not like you need betas for confirmation of your talents and skills. You know?

Thanks Janna. That's pretty much what I'm doing.

Lol. If all three books are best sellers, I'll still be wanting input on Books four and five. I'm not proud of the fact that I have a tendency to worry. Lol, when the publisher contacted me about book one I thought it was to tell me it was rejected. Now that it's gotten great feedback, I'm not worried about it.

But this story follows a kind of Lord of the Ringish pattern, in terms of the breaking up of the fellowship and following different story lines.

So, in effect, I'm hoping readers will love the new story lines and new characters as much as book one, but I'm still as nervous as if this was a blind date and I had ten zits on my nose. The difficult chapters might actually be great, but it's like being handsome, but this mirror is right up in my face and the zit just looks so big.

Yes, I need a new perspective and hope it comes in time for Christmas. lol

Nate

jannawrites · Dec 19, 2007

Glad it's going so well (despite your inherent worries)! Just don't forget the little people when you've gone off and become a successful serial novelist...

Nateskate · Dec 20, 2007

jannawrites said:
Glad it's going so well (despite your inherent worries)! Just don't forget the little people when you've gone off and become a successful serial novelist...

Janna, there are no little people except for Hobbits!!! And they're so loveable who could forget them? (Smiles)

Danthia · Dec 20, 2007

Do you have one beta reader or friend you trust to bounce ideas off of? My best friend is also a writer and we discuss scens and plots and characters all the time. It's incredibly helpful on both sides to just talk it through and get some feedback in the early planning stages. Maybe this will help you?

johnzakour · Dec 20, 2007

CheshireCat said:
No.

I learned to trust my own instincts a long time ago. My agent sees the work at the same time the editor sees it. Until then, nobody sees it but me.

But different writers work best in different ways.

As for seeing inside the mind of a great writer, I know enough highly successful writers well enough to feel confident in saying that if you could do that, you'd find them as chaotic and screwed-up as the rest of us.

IMO, doubting and questioning comes with the territory, and none of us have all the answers.

I work the same way.

NicoleMD · Dec 20, 2007

Here's a little trick I just discovered from another thread about letting your computer read your work to you: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67198

I've found using Microsoft's Narrator an invaluable tool, not only for catching pesky typos, but also for seeing my work with fresh eyes. The characters and plot fold out as if I were reading it for the first time, and I can get a better sense of what a real reader would feel as it happens. I really can't describe it, but instead of editing becoming a chore, it becomes a treat. I just follow along as the computer reads to me, marking on hard copy and stopping it if I need to make changes. I let it read at a slower pace so I'm not rushed.

It's like an electronic beta reader, and you don't even have to bribe it with chocolate!

Nicole

johnzakour · Dec 20, 2007

Speech also works on a mac in word, word menu, services, speech.

Works in final draft too.

HeronW · Dec 20, 2007

Stephen King originally had The Stand at 500 pages more yet even when he had that first published, and he was known, he still had to trim it. later he was able to reissue it with the missing pages. Some think he writes like he's being paid by the word, others think you use as many words as it takes to tell the story.

Does the scne pertain to the tale? Does the character add to the drama? Are your loose ends tied up? If there's too much in the book, maybe it means you've got the makings for two books.

Stories never really end. There's always something else happening to someone in the tale. It's up to you to let them go on., then again, they may surprise you and forge ahead.

Nateskate · Dec 25, 2007

Danthia said:
Do you have one beta reader or friend you trust to bounce ideas off of? My best friend is also a writer and we discuss scens and plots and characters all the time. It's incredibly helpful on both sides to just talk it through and get some feedback in the early planning stages. Maybe this will help you?

I have multiple Beta Readers, but don't necessarily show them all the same things. None have seen the current renditions of the books, except the publisher and whoever was in that process.

Nateskate · Dec 25, 2007

HeronW said:
Stephen King originally had The Stand at 500 pages more yet even when he had that first published, and he was known, he still had to trim it. later he was able to reissue it with the missing pages. Some think he writes like he's being paid by the word, others think you use as many words as it takes to tell the story.

Does the scne pertain to the tale? Does the character add to the drama? Are your loose ends tied up? If there's too much in the book, maybe it means you've got the makings for two books.

Stories never really end. There's always something else happening to someone in the tale. It's up to you to let them go on., then again, they may surprise you and forge ahead.

This is so true. I like Tad William's Dragonbone Chair. But he could be the next J.K Rowlings if he would prune down his stories. Some may love him for the length of his books, and would dislike my suggestion; but he's a writer I believe would double or tripple his popularity if he wrote less.

Yes, these things are a concern, when is it too much tale???

Nateskate · Dec 25, 2007

NicoleMD said:
Here's a little trick I just discovered from another thread about letting your computer read your work to you: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67198

I've found using Microsoft's Narrator an invaluable tool, not only for catching pesky typos, but also for seeing my work with fresh eyes. The characters and plot fold out as if I were reading it for the first time, and I can get a better sense of what a real reader would feel as it happens. I really can't describe it, but instead of editing becoming a chore, it becomes a treat. I just follow along as the computer reads to me, marking on hard copy and stopping it if I need to make changes. I let it read at a slower pace so I'm not rushed.

It's like an electronic beta reader, and you don't even have to bribe it with chocolate!

Nicole

Sounds great. Anything to make the process easier.

Will Lavender · Dec 25, 2007

Nateskate said:
This is so true. I like Tad William's Dragonbone Chair. But he could be the next J.K Rowlings if he would prune down his stories. Some may love him for the length of his books, and would dislike my suggestion; but he's a writer I believe would double or tripple his popularity if he wrote less.

Yes, these things are a concern, when is it too much tale???

Not much to add to this thread, but wanted to say The Dragonbone Chair was one of my favorites as a teenager. Loved that book, and its sequel. (Never did make it to the third of the trilogy. I think that book weighed more than some compact cars.)

Nateskate · Dec 27, 2007

Will Lavender said:
Not much to add to this thread, but wanted to say The Dragonbone Chair was one of my favorites as a teenager. Loved that book, and its sequel. (Never did make it to the third of the trilogy. I think that book weighed more than some compact cars.)

I've entered this strange place in life where I'm mentally editing other people's works. Not all. But I'm going through the Dragonbone Chair thinking--- if he consilidates here, it would be stronger...this isn't needed....

It's a fabulous story and there's so much great writing. I don't mean to be critical of a great writer. But from a financhial standpoint, he is someone I think who would have had a chance to be up there in the Tolkiensphere if he'd sliced and diced his books in half.

jannawrites · Dec 27, 2007

Nateskate said:
I've entered this strange place in life where I'm mentally editing other people's works...

Me, too. And sometimes it gets in the way of enjoying what could be a great book.

mscelina · Dec 27, 2007

As another victim of a serial imagination, I can completely empathize with your problem. Although my crit group got to shred Asphodel in its first incarnation, only my editor has seen books 2,3,4,et cetera. For me, once I completed the line edits on book one, I was able to attack the subsequent books with fewer problems. Since you do have some time, I'd let the problem sit for a while--maybe work on a new project to loosen up your thinking--and come back at it with new eyes. Good luck.

JerseyGirl1962 · Dec 28, 2007

NicoleMD said:
I've found using Microsoft's Narrator an invaluable tool, not only for catching pesky typos, but also for seeing my work with fresh eyes. The characters and plot fold out as if I were reading it for the first time, and I can get a better sense of what a real reader would feel as it happens. I really can't describe it, but instead of editing becoming a chore, it becomes a treat. I just follow along as the computer reads to me, marking on hard copy and stopping it if I need to make changes. I let it read at a slower pace so I'm not rushed.

You can also use Read Out Loud in the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader (I have version 8.0 for Windows).

In the top-most menu, click on View, then Read Out Loud, then Activate. It's not the best voice in the world, but Reader is a free download, so what the hey?

~Nancy

Nateskate · Dec 31, 2007

jannawrites said:
Me, too. And sometimes it gets in the way of enjoying what could be a great book.

Lol. It does.

David I · Jan 1, 2008

Nateskate said:
I'm not certain whether the reader will love it, get bogged down, or hate it. And at some point I think I may need to go back to Beta Readers to get their feel. Then again, I guess I could just pass the story straight to the publisher, but I'd rather have it in the best shape possible before giving them anything.

There's such a thing as being too self-conscious while composing, you know...

Through the end of the tunnel- a guiding hand.

Nateskate

CheshireCat

Mostly purring. Mostly.

jannawrites

no, really

Nateskate

Nateskate

jannawrites

no, really

Nateskate

Danthia

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

NicoleMD

Onomatopotamus

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

HeronW

Down Under Fan

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Nateskate

jannawrites

no, really

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)

Nateskate

David I