15k mark and a question about pages....

Status
Not open for further replies.

dragoon_elf

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
104
Reaction score
12
Location
Philadelphia, PA
I hit the 15k word mark but I have a question....

If I'm already at 78 pages, does that seem right to anybody? Do I have way too much dialogue? How much dialogue is too much?

I ask because if 250 words fit on one page (using Courier 12), then every 10,000 words should represent 40 pages. But I'll be closing in at 20,000 and be WAY over 80 pages....

Thanks.
 

seun

Horror Man
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
9,709
Reaction score
2,054
Age
48
Location
uk
Website
www.lukewalkerwriter.com
I'll be the first to say it:

Just write the book. Don't stress about this sort of stuff until you get to the rewrite (the first of many). For now, just write the book and enjoy yourself.
 

brunoshouse

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
126
Reaction score
7
Location
Winona, MN
Website
www.jaandersonhouse.com
I'll be the first to say it:

Just write the book. Don't stress about this sort of stuff until you get to the rewrite (the first of many). For now, just write the book and enjoy yourself.

Ditto. Now isn't the time to sweat the small stuff. Get the story down on pages. Revise it relentlessly and then worry about word count and pages.

Good Luck and enjoy yourself!
 

David I

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
851
Reaction score
186
Just write the book. Don't stress about this sort of stuff until you get to the rewrite (the first of many). For now, just write the book and enjoy yourself.

I endorse that position--but since you (Dragoon Elf) are apparently already stressed, let me tell you that I seldom if ever get 250 words on a page unless I'm writing pretty dense nonfiction.

I tend to run about 230 wpp., and I'm pretty wordy. I know other writers who run a lot less. You're a little under 200 wpp., which is a lot of whitespace, but I'd bet you Elmore Leonard runs under 200 wpp. in manuscript. Most readers think whitespace is good. In other words, you're probably doing just fine.

Now go do what Seun said.
 

stormie

storm central
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
12,500
Reaction score
7,163
Location
Still three blocks from the Atlantic Ocean
Website
www.anneskal.wordpress.com
As the others said, just keep writing. I don't even bother looking at how many pages I've covered. It's the word count in the end anyway.

Also, don't worry (right now) about too much dialogue. If it moves the story along, keep it. Not enough dialogue? Maybe you don't need it. You'll know when you finish the book.
 

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
522
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Website
www.carlaharker.com
I hit the 15k word mark but I have a question....

If I'm already at 78 pages, does that seem right to anybody? Do I have way too much dialogue? How much dialogue is too much?

I ask because if 250 words fit on one page (using Courier 12), then every 10,000 words should represent 40 pages. But I'll be closing in at 20,000 and be WAY over 80 pages....

Thanks.

You're looking at it backwards. If you're using Courier 12 pt. with 1" margins, then 78 pages times 250 wpp is 19,500 words. That's your word count using traditional counting methods, not 15,000, which I'm guessing is your word processor's count. Word processor counts won't match 250 wpp x nbr. of pages.
 

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
861
Reaction score
119
Location
Waaay West of NYC
I hit the 15k word mark but I have a question....

If I'm already at 78 pages, does that seem right to anybody? Do I have way too much dialogue? How much dialogue is too much?


I'm with the others who said not to worry about page count. A rough draft is just that...rough. Revision is where you whip the thing into shape (if it's worth it; a lot of mine weren't, lol).

So write what needs to be written, revise it until it's the best shape it can be, then think about other things. The rough draft stage is where you let your imagination loose and keep your inner critic bound and gagged (although you'll need that inner critic back in the revision stage, so don't treat him/her too roughly ;).

Just have at it and have fun! (Can you tell I love the rough draft stage? :D)

~Nancy
 

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
5,363
Reaction score
1,763
Location
Getting blitzed at Gillhoughly's Reef, Haleakaloha
250 words per page is just an industry guideline.

I've had as few as 100 and as many as 300/w/per page. My final word count on my 400 page novel should have been 100K. It turned out to be 160K. I didn't care, that sucker was done.

What the others said.

Write the thing.
Finish the thing.
Start another thing.

You can always edit later.
 

David I

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
851
Reaction score
186
You're looking at it backwards. If you're using Courier 12 pt. with 1" margins, then 78 pages times 250 wpp is 19,500 words. That's your word count using traditional counting methods, not 15,000, which I'm guessing is your word processor's count. Word processor counts won't match 250 wpp x nbr. of pages.

I understand what you mean, but I also understand why the OP asked the question. People are constantly claiming that 250 wpp. is a pretty good estimate of your word count--and for fiction, it generally isn't; fiction is all over the place. On a single page of terse dialogue, word counts can plunge toward nothingness.

I thiink Dragoon Elf is asking if his word density over his 78 is low. I'd say it's on the lower side of the normal range. Nothing to worry about.

Knowing your word count and your typical word density can be useful. And the writers I know put a rounded count of actual words on their manuscripts, not 250 x pages.

Even before the advent of word processors, writers used to count their words. In Twain's original manuscripts, there are little numbers pencilled in the margins--counting words. Hemingway and Graham Greene did the ame thing. I certainly count my words. And, because I've been writing long enough to know what's typical for me, I pay attention to things like word density per chapter in the same way that most people give at least passing consideration to chapter length.

Just as a matter of trivia, I'm told that in France, publishers are interested in letter counts--all characters including spaces. They scoff at the notion of adding together "a" and "sesquipedalian" and claiming that it measures something significant.
 
Last edited:

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
43,746
Reaction score
8,654
Location
Los Angeles
Website
www.amazon.com
I'll be the first to say it:

Just write the book. Don't stress about this sort of stuff until you get to the rewrite (the first of many). For now, just write the book and enjoy yourself.

Or let me put it more bluntly: Finish your book and then we will answer your question about word count and pages.

15,000. Ptttt. You've barely started.
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
Dragoon_Elf, if I remember correctly, in the end of October you had 10K and asked a question in this forum about querying when you are not done. It is December now, you are asking about converting your word count to page numbers. I am sorry for being blunt, but a steady output of just 500 words a day will get you farther along than worrying about your page/wordcount. None of it really matters before you hit the end and start revising, IMHO.
Best of luck,
Rose
 

ORION

Sailed away years ago
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
1,996
Reaction score
348
Location
Hawaii
Website
patriciawoodauthor.com
Here's another vote for "just write"
I only use word count at the first draft stage to gauge how much I've written each day - most of my stuff goes from narrative (dense) to scene (more dialogue with more white space) --- word count is only a guideline at your point in the process...
 

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
2,361
Reaction score
429
Location
Beast Coast
Good job! Keep it up!

Let me also say that in revision, you might beef up dialogue sections. When I write dialogue, I never put in attributions, because it is perfectly clear who is speaking. Then I have to go back in and add in attributions and actions, stuff like

he said
X nodded
B dropped his cigarette and ground it in the dirt.

All of those things seem clear to me when I am writing a first draft, but when I edit I realize the reader might need more.

That sort of thing might add to the word count of pages with dialogue

P
 
Last edited:

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
445
Location
San Antonio
Echoing all the advice to "just write!"

However, remember that when you use the Courier 12/25 lines per page/250 words per page method, you are counting standardized "words". Those aren't the same as actual words, which is what your word processor counts. I'm guessing the 15K is the word processor count. 78 pages in Courier 12 is 19,500 "words".
 

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
2,962
Reaction score
629
Location
Bay Area, CA
Website
www.geardrops.net
You're thinking about it wrong. Instead of "Is this too much dialog for a novel?" ask yourself "Is this too much description for a play?"

Eh? Eh?

Finish it and see what happens :)
 

Novelhistorian

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
365
Reaction score
47
Location
Seattle
As others have suggested, think of it this way. "Am I asking too many questions? Am I hoping for certainty in a profession that's anything but? Am I worrying about this by way of delaying writing that 500 words a day that would help me? And am I delaying by corresponding with those fine, upstanding people on AW before I've reached my daily target of 500 words?"
 

dragoon_elf

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
104
Reaction score
12
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Dragoon_Elf, if I remember correctly, in the end of October you had 10K and asked a question in this forum about querying when you are not done. It is December now, you are asking about converting your word count to page numbers. I am sorry for being blunt, but a steady output of just 500 words a day will get you farther along than worrying about your page/wordcount. None of it really matters before you hit the end and start revising, IMHO.
Best of luck,
Rose

I know, Gray Rose. Seems like my progession's been slow but here's the thing.... I'm in graduate school. Not only that, but in Literature. I'm writing 25 page essays like it's my diet. These past two months and this month especially has been about me taking care of my classes.

Next week, I will be done and have zero classes and no work until January 28th (!). It's come to be that the first thought when I wake up in the morning is this novel, and I have it all sketched out in my head already.

I think I'm in a good place.
 

Straka

Bored Fanatic
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
142
Location
Connecticut
Website
danstraka.blogspot.com
Good to hear you're keeping it going.

I used to get into word counts and say wow look at me! (to myself of course) But when my first manuscript went from 365 pages to 283 from editing... well that novelty wore off. Just didn't matter anymore.

Don't sweat the small stuff.
 

David I

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
851
Reaction score
186
I used to get into word counts and say wow look at me! (to myself of course) But when my first manuscript went from 365 pages to 283 from editing... well that novelty wore off. Just didn't matter anymore.

Cool! Mine get longer when I rewrite. Longer still when an editor gets hold of them.

But I've word-counted my way through 5 1/2 novels now, and I can't imagine stopping.

Whatever works...
 

Straka

Bored Fanatic
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
142
Location
Connecticut
Website
danstraka.blogspot.com
Cool! Mine get longer when I rewrite. Longer still when an editor gets hold of them.

But I've word-counted my way through 5 1/2 novels now, and I can't imagine stopping.

Whatever works...

Hey 5 ½ novels your doing something right.

In the example it was my first work, that I started at the end of high school and took 3 years to complete. When I returned to edit it I realize how much useless action, (like explaining Peter gets up, goes to the door, grasps the handle, opens the door...) Just a lot of poor writing as my style changed over the years. It dragged the story down. Also I cut out side characters and tiny plots that I liked, but it was pointed out, added nothing to the story. It’s certainly tighter now. Now going back into it for the 4th time, its growing as I reemphasis certain ideas.

I'm sure if I ever get and agent and publisher, I'll start to have to worry about it. ;-)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.