How much time is needed to get to "know" a character?

Darkness Rising · Dec 10, 2007

I'm begining to think that I have too many POVs in my book. It features 6 main characters (POV characters). I've done my book outline and it looks like it'll be about 60,000.

Each character will have 3 chapters w/ them as the star (each chapter will number 2500-4000).

Is this, approximately 9,000 words, enough to truly get to know a character and begin to care about them?

Danger Jane · Dec 10, 2007

it...depends.

Are these really meaty chapters? Do we get to know each character from other POVs as well? Honestly, I'd say write it. If these six characters are equally compelling to you, and you really are giving them equal stage time, and you really can't cut one or two--just go for it.

East by Edith Pattou uses about half a dozen POVs in 100,000 words, and some of them are only for a handful of chapters, some for much more.

Ravenlocks · Dec 10, 2007

Yup, it totally depends.

If your gut is telling you you have too many POV characters, I'd listen and cut back on them. But if you're just wondering because of abstract "rules" or things other people have said, my advice would be to leave everything as is and see if it works.

FennelGiraffe · Dec 10, 2007

Six POVs in 60K words?

It could be that it will work, but I think you're right to be concerned. That's a lot for such a short novel.

Can you tell the story with fewer POVs? If you can, you should. If you can't, then maybe there's more story in there than you think. Is there any chance it's more like 90K or even 120K? Since you're writing SF/F, you have room to go that long.

You may just have to write it and find out.

chevbrock · Dec 10, 2007

Someone very wise told me, "write now, worry later."

You can always cut a character or two if they turn out too insipid. Conversley, you can add some beef stock to make them more "meaty".

ACEnders · Dec 10, 2007

Hmmm..I'm almost willing to be that it's going to end up longer. I have 4 POVs and it's about 95k.

But I think the answer to your question totally depends on what's in those chapters and how well you write, your ability to make the reader believe and relate to those characters.

I also agree with the "write now, worry later" theory. Get your story out first. Then, when you go back for revision number 1...and 2...and 10....you can worry as you piece it all together.

preyer · Dec 10, 2007

well, yeah, i'd like to agree with the 'worry later' theory... but the reader in me leans more towards fennel's 'concerned' comment. given that you have to fit a story and description in there, you won't even give each one 10K of words to get their character started and resolved. that sounds like awful thin slices to me.

who knows, it could be awesome. 'star wars' wasn't known for it's deep characterizations, relying on archetypes. and i mean *relying*. still, that was more than 60K words in the novel, too.

AllieB · Dec 11, 2007

Yeah, as everyone else said, it's hard to tell...but I lean toward the side that says 60K isn't really a lot of time/space to get to know and care about 6 POVs - main characters especially.

Danthia · Dec 11, 2007

I'd have to echo DangerJane. If your gut says it's too much listen to your gut. Instincts are often right on target. That said, try to figure out *why* your gut says it's too much. Maybe it's not the number of POVs but how they're presented. Perhaps you need to spread their scenes out over the entire book so readers don't forget abut them. Grouping them up and moving from one character chunk to the next could put them "out of sight out of mind" for the reader.

Are there any characters you can combine to bring the number down? This could deeper the characters and tighten the plot all at the same time. If you cut one, would their plotline fit in with others? Layering your conflicts and issue is always fun.

David I · Dec 11, 2007

Your description sounds like you really have a book of six interlinked short stories. Such things can be done.

Whether you can do it with this story is something you can only figure out by writing it.

(My guess is that you won't find all of the characters equally compelling, and will find yourself writing a different book than you expect. Unless you're wedded to your outline, that should be okay, too.)

JerseyGirl1962 · Dec 11, 2007

chevbrock said:
You can always cut a character or two if they turn out too insipid.

The first draft of my current WIP originally had 4 POV characters. Early on in revision, I realized one particular character didn't add anything to the story; I deleted her POV (but kept the character, because she's very important to the story).

As recently as a couple of weeks ago, I stayed with the 3 POV characters. However, I came to the conclusion that I didn't need this other character's POV; it was a bit upsetting because I thought some of her thoughts and dialogue were quite funny, but I finally decided to trash her POV because the info she provided she also provides later in that chapter. There were also only 2 instances where we were in her POV, so it wasn't as if there was a lot to lose; the 2nd place we're in her POV is near the end, but I figured having the ending in one of the two remaining POVs will work out much better.

So...that's my long-winded way of saying you have to look at your story and see if having all of those POVs advance the story, add to the understanding of a character, etc. If not (and you have to be VERY honest with yourself), be ruthless and cut it, no matter how much it might hurt to do so.

FWIW.

~Nancy

Nateskate · Dec 11, 2007

Since your character can be your child, your parent, your uncle, that person at work that drives you nuts, you can know your character before you get a story idea.

However, with that said, they will change as the story progresses and take on their own personalities, unless you are writing with a vandetta.

maestrowork · Dec 11, 2007

I'm just wondering whose story this is: six POV characters in 60000 words is a lot. Of course, it depends on the story, but still, one wonders what kind of story this is to allow six POV characters -- who are we supposed to root for?

David I · Dec 11, 2007

maestrowork said:
I'm just wondering whose story this is: six POV characters in 60000 words is a lot. Of course, it depends on the story, but still, one wonders what kind of story this is to allow six POV characters -- who are we supposed to root for?

Yes. That's why its sounds like six related stories to me rather than a novel.

Simultaneously with this discussion, much the same question came up on another thread in a somewhat different form. Darkness might want to check out the discussion there as well.

Elodie-Caroline · Dec 11, 2007

I only have two main characters in my novel.
I knew the female long before she was even into words on my PC. I thought I knew the male too, until he took me by surprise, three quarters of the way through the story. To be honest, if I knew him in real life, he would have disappointed me, big time! She loves him though, even for his weird foibles.

Elodie

HourglassMemory · Dec 11, 2007

You could get a reader to care for your character in one page.
I'm reading "The Historian" by Elizabeth Kostova and only now am I thinking that the story has the right pace. And the characters start behaving interestingly. I'm 300 pages into the novel.

I have no idea how many words there are in that.

Darkness Rising · Dec 11, 2007

Wow, thanks for all the helpful replies. Now that it's been pointed out, yeah my story is more like 6 short stories interlinked. The main idea of my story is that there are three gods that are fighting with each other (decided against the usual good vs. evil). My novel (well actually trilogy) will follow the servants (unwilling or knowing) of these gods in the battles. I look at my story as kind of like chess. This god takes out an important servant of that god and so on.

I feel it's important to have six characters in my first novel to show everything that's going on. Each god will have two of their servant's w/ POVs. Each servant will also be thousands of miles apart. So basically, each character is witnessing a seperate battle between these three gods. Also I've planned and built these characters so much... each is interesting in their own way.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. It as opened my eyes a lot and I'm searching to see what character I might not need to have a POV.

Akuma · Dec 11, 2007

Darkness Rising said:
Wow, thanks for all the helpful replies. Now that it's been pointed out, yeah my story is more like 6 short stories interlinked. The main idea of my story is that there are three gods that are fighting with each other (decided against the usual good vs. evil). My novel (well actually trilogy) will follow the servants (unwilling or knowing) of these gods in the battles. I look at my story as kind of like chess. This god takes out an important servant of that god and so on.

I feel it's important to have six characters in my first novel to show everything that's going on. Each god will have two of their servant's w/ POVs. Each servant will also be thousands of miles apart. So basically, each character is witnessing a seperate battle between these three gods. Also I've planned and built these characters so much... each is interesting in their own way.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. It as opened my eyes a lot and I'm searching to see what character I might not need to have a POV.

Hm, do you mean 'servant' in the literal sense?

Because if you do, I'm not sure why you would need more than one for each god.

Then again, I don't know the story. Good luck, though!

Happy Writing,
Akuma.

Pike · Dec 11, 2007

This may sound a tad clinical but I read once that you should keep the number of main POV characters to a minimum depending on how big your work is. This totally goes against the creative grain and fun with experimentation process.

I think you've gotten a chunk of sound advice so far. Write your stories and see how they flow together. Have some beta readers tell you if they work or the switching of POV's leaves them confused. If I remember correctly, Thieves World was a collection of shorts revolving around the central city and theme. Wild Cards was another with a similar take. What ever works for you, hopefully you'll have fun with it. That will make your work sore.

Pike

heyjude · Dec 12, 2007

Read some Maeve Binchy. She is the mistress of multiple POVs. Each has their own story, always intertwining, and she makes you care about each.

How much time is needed to get to "know" a character?

Darkness Rising

Danger Jane

Ravenlocks

How novel.

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say

chevbrock

ACEnders

Self-Banned

preyer

excessively spartan

AllieB

Danthia

David I

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)

Nateskate

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

David I

Elodie-Caroline

HourglassMemory

Darkness Rising

Akuma

Rare Writer Pokemon

Pike

Chivalry ain't dead

heyjude

Making my own sunshine