Brainstorm on Female Knight

DwayneA · Dec 6, 2007

I came up with a brainstorm for my female knight in my future upcoming fantasy novel. I know many have complained that she's not conflicted, flawed, or imperfect in any way, so I have done some major changes to her personality. Basically, she's no longer the perfect knight I first created.

She had very few friends growing up, the few either died on her or betrayed her, even her own lover jilted her and broke her heart. Her main motivation to join the army was to prove herself to her people and especially to her perfectionist overbearing father who constantly compared her to himself and her older brother, both of whom are in the army and expressed disappointment in her. In her first battle, her closest friend is killed and she is unable to save her, which she takes as a personal failure. No matter how hard she tries, she can't seem to get the respect she desires from her family.

Because of her frustration in her ability to succeed at what she strives at, she develops a bad temper, lashing out at others when angry while not in control of herself. While she does come to her senses and expresses regret and remorse, her reputation is tarnished. She wanted to be respected and prove herself to everyone; instead she is feared and ostracized. During one duel, she accidentally slices off one of her opponent's arms and in another duel she accidentally inflicts a mortal wound on her brother.

Later, when she accidentally injures someone she cares for in another of her violent outbursts, she relinquishes her knighthood and decides to go into self-exile, seeing as how she'll never earn the respect and praise she wishes for from everyone. The quest she embarks upon with her comrades against the story's main villain becomes a journey to prove herself and for redemption.

Vomaxx · Dec 6, 2007

DwayneA said:
During one duel, she accidentally slices off one of her opponent's arms ...

Accidentally? Was she trying to slice off his head, but she missed? A duel, after all, implies trying to damage your opponent.

PattiTheWicked · Dec 6, 2007

"It's only a flesh wound..."

Once is an accident. Three times would indicate a complete and total lack of skill or control. Neither is an appealing quality.

Sheryl Nantus · Dec 6, 2007

PattiTheWicked said:
"It's only a flesh wound..."

Once is an accident. Three times would indicate a complete and total lack of skill or control. Neither is an appealing quality.

I agree.

I don't want this woman around me with a sword. Better she be sent to the kitchen with a spork.

Toothpaste · Dec 6, 2007

Dwayne,

You've done a lot of brainstorming, and it is lovely how seriously you are taking in the creation of your character. But I think the best thing for her at this stage would be to throw her into a story, see how she interacts with other people and situations. Not everything can be planned, you need some room now for the unexpected. Many characters can evolve and develop naturally as well (I could write you an essay about my latest protagonist Timothy in that respect). You have a solid foundation, so let's see what unexpected things will happen to your knight once you start to tell her tale.

Take the plunge! I think you're ready for it!

Good luck!

Marian Perera · Dec 6, 2007

This character is no longer perfect, but I think she's gone a bit far in the opposite direction. Your description focuses on her flaws (which are significant ones) but not on her good points, and that could be a problem. Right now, all I know of your character is that she feels she can't live up to expectations and is something of a rageaholic. A character who is greatly in need of anger management is a challenge to make likeable and sympathetic, especially when these uncontrollable outbursts result in their injuring someone and when their response to this is to give it all up and go off somewhere.

A minor flaw for me is that your character wants to "prove herself to everyone". You can't please everyone, IMO, and universal approval is something no one ever gets. Wanting one's parents' approval is understandable, but proving oneself to "everyone" is unrealistic. I admire characters who have enough self-confidence that they don't need praise and respect from "everyone". Just my thoughts - take 'em or leave 'em.

Good luck with the writing.

Storm Dream · Dec 6, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
A minor flaw for me is that your character wants to "prove herself to everyone". You can't please everyone, IMO, and universal approval is something no one ever gets. Wanting one's parents' approval is understandable, but proving oneself to "everyone" is unrealistic. I admire characters who have enough self-confidence that they don't need praise and respect from "everyone". Just my thoughts - take 'em or leave 'em.

Unless the character really is that naive, which could be an interesting character arc. (I'm not sure I'd want to read such a book, but they are out there.)

I'll echo what the others said about the multiple accidental dismemberments, though: once works, more than that and it's no accident.

Akuma · Dec 6, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
This character is no longer perfect, but I think she's gone a bit far in the opposite direction. Your description focuses on her flaws (which are significant ones) but not on her good points, and that could be a problem. Right now, all I know of your character is that she feels she can't live up to expectations and is something of a rageaholic. A character who is greatly in need of anger management is a challenge to make likeable and sympathetic, especially when these uncontrollable outbursts result in their injuring someone and when their response to this is to give it all up and go off somewhere.

Hm, I wouldn't say the character sounds like a rageaholic if she is sensitive enough to banish herself. She seems more consumed with frustration with her inadequacies than anything, and she sounds interesting to me.

But I suppose we can only bring our guesses so far from just a synopsis.

Marian Perera · Dec 6, 2007

Storm Dream said:
Unless the character really is that naive, which could be an interesting character arc. (I'm not sure I'd want to read such a book, but they are out there.)

I'd really like to read such a book - where the character starts out believing that they need the respect and praise of everyone they know, but eventually realizes that their own self-respect is more important. Or where the character desperately wants his parents' approval, but has to choose between that and his committment to his own standards and beliefs. It reminds me a little of Scarlett in Gone with the Wind; she liked the idea of being admired as a lady by society, but achieving financial security and getting the man she loved would always be more important.

FennelGiraffe · Dec 6, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
This character is no longer perfect, but I think she's gone a bit far in the opposite direction. Your description focuses on her flaws (which are significant ones) but not on her good points, and that could be a problem. Right now, all I know of your character is that she feels she can't live up to expectations and is something of a rageaholic. A character who is greatly in need of anger management is a challenge to make likeable and sympathetic, especially when these uncontrollable outbursts result in their injuring someone and when their response to this is to give it all up and go off somewhere.

I agree with Queen of Swords.

An additional consideration is that someone with so little control over her emotions is not an effective fighter. She would be easily defeated by a level-headed opponent.

It's your story; you have to tell the one that resonates with you. But one possible flaw, given the background you describe, would be to make her cold and unemotional, so tightly controlled that she never reveals (to the other characters) any feelings at all. Make her afraid to trust, afraid that the slightest hint of vulnerability will be used against her. Of course, then you would need to show the reader that she does have those feelings on the inside.

AceTachyon · Dec 6, 2007

Can you share a page from your story with us, Dwayne?

blackpen · Dec 6, 2007

she sounds a lot like xena, warrior princess

Marian Perera · Dec 6, 2007

DwayneA said:
During one duel, she accidentally slices off one of her opponent's arms

Is this a bad thing? It's a duel, as Vomaxx pointed out. Was she not supposed to kill her opponent?

It's also odd that when your character inflicts mortal wounds in duels, she does so accidentally (and your narrative seems to imply that she was wrong to injure people, even accidentally). But how do her opponents react to her during the duels? Do they hold back, not wanting to hurt her? Do they fight with corks on their swords?

Or do they give her everything they've got? If they're trying to kill her, then your character doesn't need to feel guilty that she defended herself - perhaps the only thing she should feel bad about is that she wasn't skilled enough to injure them deliberately and could only do so through fortuitious accidents. Note : this is not the same as having uncontrolled outbursts of rage. This is, on the other hand, a healthy attitude to have in a medieval world : if someone's trying to kill you in a duel, kill them first.

DwayneA · Dec 6, 2007

I'm still working on it. I haven't even written out the story yet.

ErylRavenwell · Dec 6, 2007

A female Knight? That's unheard of. It strikes me as peculiar even for the fantasy genre.

PattiTheWicked · Dec 6, 2007

Female fighters are hardly unheard of in fantasy. But we had a lengthy discussion about this a while back, when the OP originally asked for some input on this same character, here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77533&highlight=female+knight

ErylRavenwell · Dec 6, 2007

PattiTheWicked said:
Female fighters are hardly unheard of in fantasy. But we had a lengthy discussion about this a while back, when the OP originally asked for some input on this same character, here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77533&highlight=female+knight

Fighters, yes, of course. But a knight, in most imaginations, is a mounted and armour-clad male warrior who is the embodiment of masculine virtues. I would cite the mounted warriors of Rohan as an example.

similan · Dec 6, 2007

Just make her human. The flaws, the obscenity, the bravery, etc will seep as you go along.

JimmyB27 · Dec 7, 2007

Toothpaste said:
Dwayne,

You've done a lot of brainstorming, and it is lovely how seriously you are taking in the creation of your character. But I think the best thing for her at this stage would be to throw her into a story, see how she interacts with other people and situations. Not everything can be planned, you need some room now for the unexpected. Many characters can evolve and develop naturally as well (I could write you an essay about my latest protagonist Timothy in that respect). You have a solid foundation, so let's see what unexpected things will happen to your knight once you start to tell her tale.

Take the plunge! I think you're ready for it!

Good luck!

I definitely second this. I started out my WiP with bog standard, cliched D&D characters (The elven ranger, the human wizard, the dwarven fighter/cleric - oh yes, it really was that bad), but just by throwing them at a story, I got to see which bits stuck. And now I have ditched most of them (still have the elven ranger, except he's now half elven and a soldier with some natural magical abilities), and what I have left is much stronger.

DwayneA · Dec 7, 2007

okay I came up with something better for these duels to make them less violent.

While the knights still use their normal weapons to practice and hone their skills, in duels with live opponents, they use quarter staves for safety reasons, so it's impossible for limbs to be severed.

Marian Perera · Dec 7, 2007

DwayneA said:
okay I came up with something better for these duels to make them less violent.

I have a question. In the world of your novel, what is the purpose of a duel?

While the knights still use their normal weapons to practice and hone their skills, in duels with live opponents, they use quarter staves for safety reasons, so it's impossible for limbs to be severed.

Quarterstaffs are still effective and lethal weapons. I'd expect knights to sustain broken bones, smashed teeth and so on, unless they wear armor when they fight.

DwayneA · Dec 7, 2007

the purpose of dueling is basically practice of your skills against another. Think of it as preparing for real life battle.

I read on the Wikipedia that they are non-lethal weapons.

DeleyanLee · Dec 7, 2007

DwayneA said:
the purpose of dueling is basically practice of your skills against another. Think of it as preparing for real life battle.

I read on the Wikipedia that they are non-lethal weapons.

Dueling is commonly thought of as a battle over honor, usually to first blood or to the death. That's the average person's comprehension of the word, so it's really hard to overcome that.

Perhaps you'd to better to call it sparring, which indicates more of a training purpose to the average person.

Marian Perera · Dec 7, 2007

DwayneA said:
the purpose of dueling is basically practice of your skills against another. Think of it as preparing for real life battle.

You might want to consider using a word other thsn "duel" to describe this activity then. Perhaps refer to it as "weapons practice" instead.

One definition for "duel" that I found was "a prearranged fight with deadly weapons by two people in order to settle a quarrel over a point of honor". This is probably what most people will think of when they read that your character fights duels, so you might want to try to lessen the potential confusion.

I read on the Wikipedia that they are non-lethal weapons.

Wikipedia describes it as being "less-than-lethal" and other sites call it "not generally lethal". But I imagine that being smashed in the head with a thick piece of wood isn't going to result in a long and happy life either.

By the way, if the knights normally use swords in battle, why do they fight with quarterstaffs in these weapons practices? This makes as much sense as practicing judo because you've got a karate competition coming up.

DwayneA · Dec 7, 2007

good idea, sparring it is

Brainstorm on Female Knight

Unleashing Hell.

Holding out for a Superhero...

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

starting over

Into the blue memory

Rare Writer Pokemon

starting over

It's green they say

Odd person

Bizzare in Berkeley

starting over

Unleashing Hell.

Hoopy frood

starting over

Writing Anarchist

starting over