Fantasy and the Prologue

PenDragon · Nov 18, 2007

Looking for people's thoughts and feelings on prologues in fantasy.

Prologues seem to to be an accepted part of the genre and a high proportion of fantasy novels start with one.

What do you think the pros and cons of prologues are? Do you love them or hate them? Think they are an essential and established part of the genre? Or think they are something the genre could do without? Do they make a difference when you're looking to purhcase/read a book? Do any stick in your memory? If so which ones?

Are prologues an imortant tool in the fantasy writer's toolbox or just something you churn out and whack in front of your wip?

Also, what do you think a 'good' prologue should acheive?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers,

PenDragon.

veinglory · Nov 18, 2007

We have had two long thread on this. They quickly devolve into some peopelr saying they hate prologues and some other people calling them names.

I would suggest working down the shelf at Borders to see how many really use the and what for.

PenDragon · Nov 18, 2007

veinglory said:
We have had two long thread on this. They quickly devolve into some peopelr saying they hate prologues and some other people calling them names.

I would suggest working down the shelf at Borders to see how many really use the and what for.

Cheers for the heads up Veinglory.

Hmm, should have hit search first. Is there anyway to delete posts?

Voyager · Nov 18, 2007

As I said to someone earlier, Tolkien wrote a prologue called the Silmarillion that had a prologue called the Ainulindalë. Some people would rather spoon their eyes out than read them, some people won't even bother to look, some don't mind them, some love them others devour them and feel they're essential to fantasy. Don't dismiss them outright because someone told you to, read a bunch of them and decide for yourself. IMHO, as long as a prologue is either brief or not a, 'let me tell y'all a story 'bout a man named Jed,' dealio (in other words, make it active and exciting, not a recounted tale), I usually read them.

PenDragon · Nov 18, 2007

Thanks for the reply Voyager.

I would suggest working down the shelf at Borders to see how many really use the and what for.

read a bunch of them and decide for yourself.

I shoud have made it clear in my first post I have read plenty of prologues and do have my own thoughts on them. I was just interested in what other people felt and thought about them too.

I'll check out the other threads Veinglory mentioned.

Gillhoughly · Nov 18, 2007

Tolkein put them in, so everyone else has to, right?

You need not put in a prologue "just because." It should be absolutely necessary to the narrative. It should be show, not tell, and not give away the plot. They've been misused as teasers, but a teaser is best used for TV shows.

As an editor & reader I tend to skip them. I'll go back if the story that comes after isn't making sense.

Dang few writers are able to get away with them.

DeleyanLee · Nov 18, 2007

PenDragon said:
What do you think the pros and cons of prologues are? Do you love them or hate them? Think they are an essential and established part of the genre? Or think they are something the genre could do without? Do they make a difference when you're looking to purhcase/read a book? Do any stick in your memory? If so which ones?

Personally, they tend to do one or both of two things: 1) Give me background information I don't really care about and/or 2) Complete defuse any tension in the story. Rare is the Prologue that doesn't fall into one of those two experiences for me--rare enough that I just don't bother anymore.

That said, the Fantasy novel I'm writing does have a 400 word Prologue to set the tone of the novel and give the reader the only villain's POV planned for the book. Since I wrote it mostly to get my own bearings on the story, it's not likely to survive the first draft, but, then, this doesn't offend in the ways I've listed so it might stay. Time will tell.

FWIW, at a workshop I attended several years ago, Donald Maass (major NYC fiction agent) said that he also never reads prologues. He just turns straight to the start of the first chapter. Always.

Gray Rose · Nov 18, 2007

I don't care what it's labeled. If it is gripping and well-written, I read it. If it is boring and poorly written, I give up on the book.

Judg · Nov 18, 2007

I always read prologues. Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're not. I have seen prologues that very effectively ratchet up the tension, and those are definitely the best.

daoine · Nov 18, 2007

Personally, I think a prologue should only be used if it is really essential to the form of the novel. In other words, if the prologue is really chapter 1, then call it chapter 1. Some writers tack on a prologue because they've started their story in the wrong place.

But if you have to have something to introduce some aspect of the story that doesn't or can't be made to fit as a chapter or woven in as exposition, then perhaps it should be a prologue.

Don't use a prologue just because you think you should or because a lot of similar books have prologues. Always write what's suitable for your own book, not someone else's.

J. R. Tomlin · Nov 18, 2007

Gillhoughly said:
Tolkein put them in, so everyone else has to, right?

You need not put in a prologue "just because." It should be absolutely necessary to the narrative. It should be show, not tell, and not give away the plot. They've been misused as teasers, but a teaser is best used for TV shows.

As an editor & reader I tend to skip them. I'll go back if the story that comes after isn't making sense.

Dang few writers are able to get away with them.

Yup, I am exactly the same. I soon discover if the book really needed the thing or not.

Bartholomew · Nov 19, 2007

I personally LIKE stories that have prologues. I don't usually skip a prologue unless the author has given me cause to, and by that point I've moved to a new book anyway.

Prologues, in my opinion, are a good place for engaged world building. Newspaper articles that set the mood; the old man telling a story, an unrelated character triggering an event that causes all sorts of hell later -- the prologue is under-rated because, so often, it is done poorly.

arodriguez · Nov 19, 2007

i'd rather have an epilogue than a prologue.

Danthia · Nov 19, 2007

I have heard/read a large number of agents say they hate prologues in fantasy because the typically have nothing to do with the story and are just dramatized backstory. That said, I have read good ones and bad ones and I always read them, though I know many don't.

I think good prologues depend on what's in them and why they are there. If it's critical to your story for the reader to know something at the start of the novel that your MC doesn't, then you're probably fine. (As long as the prologue itself has all the right componets to hook a reader). If you're putting one in because that's what fantasy books do, I'd cut it. If it's there because you just *have* to have a history lesson or do world-building, then cut it, much as that hurts. If you think it's cool and more exciting than your actual first chapter, cut it and work on the first chapter to make it better.

Bottom line, it MUST serve the story and hoook the reader. If it doesn't, start where the story starts. Not where the history starts.

PenDragon · Nov 19, 2007

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Shadow_Ferret · Nov 19, 2007

I hate prologues in most cases. They are usually boring backstory that doesn't enhance the reading of the rest of the book. I picked up one book by a famous fantasy writer and it had a 50 page prologue. I immediately put it back down.

That said, one of my fantasy WIPs not only has a prologue, but a forward as well.

Death Wizard · Nov 19, 2007

I've always been of the contention that nothing in writing is inherently evil. Not prologues, not passive voice, not cliches, not adverbs, etc. Bad writing is bad writing and good is good -- and everything has its place, if cleverly presented. A well-written prologue will be as effective as anything else, and a poorly written one as ineffective.

arodriguez · Nov 19, 2007

deathwizard said:
I've always been of the contention that nothing in writing is inherently evil. Not prologues, not passive voice, not cliches, not adverbs, etc. Bad writing is bad writing and good is good -- and everything has its place, if cleverly presented. A well-written prologue will be as effective as anything else, and a poorly written one as ineffective.

Case in point:

the prologue to Eye of the World

JerseyGirl1962 · Nov 19, 2007

PenDragon said:
What do you think the pros and cons of prologues are? Do you love them or hate them? Think they are an essential and established part of the genre? Or think they are something the genre could do without? Do they make a difference when you're looking to purhcase/read a book? Do any stick in your memory? If so which ones?

Are prologues an imortant tool in the fantasy writer's toolbox or just something you churn out and whack in front of your wip?

Also, what do you think a 'good' prologue should acheive?

PenDragon,

They're established in high fantasy, as far as I know, but other subgenres - not so much. In fact, of all the fantasy books I have (and I've got tons), that is exactly the case. See, a lot of my reading is in urban fantasy, paranormals, that sort of thing.

Could the genre do without it? I suppose. I know there are a lot of people who say they skip prologues, which to my strangely-wired brain doesn't make sense. :tongue

I mean, if the publisher didn't think it was necessary, why would they bother putting it in in the first place?

Do any stick in my memory? The only one that does is in The Fellowship of the Ring (About Hobbits, I think it's called; and I thought it was appropriate, esp. because who'd ever heard of a Hobbit before the book was published, unless you'd, um, read The Hobbit before that? Hopefully that's not too confusing!

)

An important tool? IMHO, in some high fantasy stories. I can understand where a writer might have to tell his/her readers up front about certain things that happened in the past, and in the first chapter, how it ties in. Or as Tolkien did, to explain about a made-up creature.

What should a good prologue achieve? To get you to turn the page to the first chapter. To lead right into the first chapter. And to strongly tie in with the entire book, or the prologue shouldn't be there.

Jeez, hope that made sense.

~Nancy

Anonymisty · Nov 19, 2007

Danthia said:
I think good prologues depend on what's in them and why they are there. If it's critical to your story for the reader to know something at the start of the novel that your MC doesn't, then you're probably fine.

Absolutely! The only prologue that ever made enough of an impact on me for me to remember it was for Tim Powers' The Drawing of the Dark. It was very short (just a couple of paragraphs long) and piqued my interest immediately. I always tell people to go read that if they want an idea of a well-done prologue.

Nateskate · Nov 19, 2007

On a personal level, I prefer not having to read the prologue to get the book. However, it is one way to avoid an info dump, and clues people in enough to get on to the story in some cases.

I'm not against them though.

arodriguez · Nov 19, 2007

another case in point:

A Game of Thrones prologue.

if your prologue can evoke that much suspense then you have a winner

veinglory · Nov 19, 2007

I don't think it hurts to revisit a discussion, especially if we can keep it out of the well worn ruts in the road

I approach prologues sceptically

mscelina · Nov 19, 2007

Personally, I like prologues with the usual caveats. They must be well-written and integral to the story. I use the prologue in Asphodel to tell an incident from years before the story--an incident that shapes the way my MC thinks and reacts. You could turn to the first chapter and immediately go into the story without any problem, but from a psychological point of view, what happens in the prologue sets the tone and speed of the entire book.

MMWyrm · Nov 20, 2007

I asked about prologues once on here, and everyone poked me with a stick.

I don't skip prologues in books I read, but I usually end up wishing I had. If it is important, it seems you could put it right in the first chapter.

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