Modern Technology in Fantasy?

Zelenka · Nov 16, 2007

I have half an idea for a story brewing at the moment and while I was thinking about it, this question arose...

I've read a few fantasy books that involved more science fiction-style technology (robots and the likes) but usually the technology is up to about 19th century standards at the very latest, I've found. But has anyone ever come across a fantasy novel with technology at a level beyond this, especially 20th century?

I'm more concerned with books that are set in a completely made up world rather than, say, an alternate version of this one or alternate history sort of things (thus with modern tech). It'll help me do a bit of preliminary research while I figure if this story is a viable idea or one of those 'omg what was I thinking?' ones.

Thanks in advance.

Shweta · Nov 16, 2007

I'm not sure I've seen anything set in a completely made up world with 20th century equivalent tech that isn't alternate earth tech.

That sounds prohibitively difficult to do.

Or do you just mean 20th century level tech fantasy that's not classic urban fantasy?

Zelenka · Nov 16, 2007

Shweta said:
I'm not sure I've seen anything set in a completely made up world with 20th century equivalent tech that isn't alternate earth tech.

That sounds prohibitively difficult to do.

Or do you just mean 20th century level tech fantasy that's not classic urban fantasy?

What I mean is a world that isn't, say, an alternate version of London in 1999, with dragons in or something, or something where the protagonist slips into a slightly different version of his own home and the place is the same but with fantasy elements.

Something like your common fantasy world, only it's developed on from swords and such to a similar level to our world, so they might have television or what have you. I didn't think I'd ever come across anything either, but I wondered if someone here might know of something.

Nearest thing I can think of are some of Iain Banks' literary novels - likes of 'The Bridge' has a few sections in a weird kind of world, but then arguably it's one of those alternate-world type things. I've done it once myself but that was a humour piece so I was parodying things a little. I have no idea if this idea will work, because as you said, it does sound very hard to pull off. But then that is actually adding to its appeal - I like a challenge!

Shweta · Nov 16, 2007

The Lord Darcy stories, maybe?
(by Randal Garrett, check my spelling on that)

Zelenka · Nov 16, 2007

Shweta said:
The Lord Darcy stories, maybe?
(by Randal Garrett, check my spelling on that)

I'm still waiting on my copy coming from the US. I'll check it out.

Shweta · Nov 16, 2007

JessRamage said:
...or something where the protagonist slips into a slightly different version of his own home and the place is the same but with fantasy elements.

Do world-slipping stories like His Dark Materials, and Diane Duane's Stealing the Elf King's Roses, and Diana Wynne Jones' Deep Secret fall into this category?

Also... how about these --
Robin McKinley, Sunshine
James Hetley, The Summer Country

ETA: I'm on crack, the Summer Country is totally alternate-our-world.
Um.
You might want to check out Stephen Hunt's Court of the Air -- it's clearly drawing on our world, but it's not our world or a version of it, and the tech is... really interestingly maybe 20th century.

Zelenka · Nov 16, 2007

Shweta said:
Do world-slipping stories like His Dark Materials, and Diane Duane's Stealing the Elf King's Roses, and Diana Wynne Jones' Deep Secret fall into this category?

Also... how about these --
Robin McKinley, Sunshine
James Hetley, The Summer Country

I've only read His Dark Materials out of those ones, but that is the sort of thing I was thinking of in terms of 'alternate worlds', as opposed to completely made-up ones, yes.

I'll check out the others. The Diane Duane one I've heard of but I don't know the rest. Thanks once again!

Sean D. Schaffer · Nov 16, 2007

JessRamage said:
I have half an idea for a story brewing at the moment and while I was thinking about it, this question arose...

I've read a few fantasy books that involved more science fiction-style technology (robots and the likes) but usually the technology is up to about 19th century standards at the very latest, I've found. But has anyone ever come across a fantasy novel with technology at a level beyond this, especially 20th century?

I'm more concerned with books that are set in a completely made up world rather than, say, an alternate version of this one or alternate history sort of things (thus with modern tech). It'll help me do a bit of preliminary research while I figure if this story is a viable idea or one of those 'omg what was I thinking?' ones.

Thanks in advance.

I've done it, but unfortunately a not-so-legitimate house got the book. And it's out-of-print now (thankfully!). Reviewers told me the idea was kind of cool, and that it worked, though how well it did I'm not sure.

My book had dragons and knights with rocket-propelled lances, who drove their equivalent of a Model T, and traveled across the country, mostly on steam-driven trains which would have been equivalent to early twentieth century technology (say, the 1910's to the 1930's).

And yes, it was a world that was not a mirror-image of Earth.

Of course, I took 17 years to write the thing, but still, I'm saying it can be done. Best wishes to you on your piece.

MargueriteMing · Nov 16, 2007

JessRamage said:
I have half an idea for a story brewing at the moment and while I was thinking about it, this question arose...

I've read a few fantasy books that involved more science fiction-style technology (robots and the likes) but usually the technology is up to about 19th century standards at the very latest, I've found. But has anyone ever come across a fantasy novel with technology at a level beyond this, especially 20th century?

I'm more concerned with books that are set in a completely made up world rather than, say, an alternate version of this one or alternate history sort of things (thus with modern tech). It'll help me do a bit of preliminary research while I figure if this story is a viable idea or one of those 'omg what was I thinking?' ones.

Thanks in advance.

The Amber novels by Roger Zelazny and Moonheart, by Charles de Lint, are alternate fantasy. The Dragon Riders of Pern are set on a planet that was colonized from Earth, and then forgotten for 1000's of years. This isn't revealed until one of the later volumes of the story.

zornhau · Nov 16, 2007

Simon R Green

Simon R Green's Nightside series fits the profile.

Marian Perera · Nov 17, 2007

I wrote a fantasy which had steam-powered carriages and calcium carbide cannons (because I was saving gunpowder for another novel).

Doodlebug · Nov 17, 2007

It's been a really long time since I read them, but I almost think that Piers Anthony did something like this is his "On a Pale Horse" series. I believe that the world in those books had both 'modern' (circa 1970's) techonology, and magic (flying carpets, etc.)

DarkLight · Nov 17, 2007

The Artemis Fowl series, completely brillant in my opinion, involves fairies weilding bad*ss technology beyond that of humans, although the story is still set in the present.

TomoeMichieru · Nov 17, 2007

^^

That's basically Earth with magic alongside science.

oscuridad · Nov 17, 2007

I think you should just write it and see what happens. it could be really good, but there is only one way to find out.

Zelenka · Nov 17, 2007

oscuridad said:
I think you should just write it and see what happens. it could be really good, but there is only one way to find out.

From experience, I don't do very well just writing to see what happens - I need my outlines!

Anyway, I was interested to see if there was anything close to the idea I have, just for interest's sake as well as for a bit of pre-write reading.

arodriguez · Nov 17, 2007

sounds real cool for a background. What it really depends on is what your people do in it. What type of fantasy would it be? Is it like urban fantasy? highlander type stuff? or are you thinking of something else?

Zelenka · Nov 17, 2007

arodriguez said:
sounds real cool for a background. What it really depends on is what your people do in it. What type of fantasy would it be? Is it like urban fantasy? highlander type stuff? or are you thinking of something else?

The main idea is mainly a character-based thing, lots of families who can't stand each other sort of thing, but the spread of information and culture is a big part of it, so I want something like radio at the very least. I do have quite a strong idea now though of how I want the world to look, at least, which is cool.

Roanoke · Nov 17, 2007

It's notable that the uses for magic are similar to the uses for technology, so magic must be extremely difficult or rare for it to have a point in a story. If it's difficult it is only useful in very rare situations unless it is powerful, but then it must be rare or why have technology. If it is too rare technology should out pace it and render it obsolete, unless the magic is easy. You could have magic mixed in with technology as well and make them blend seamlessly, but that is very hard.

Zelenka · Nov 17, 2007

Roanoke said:
It's notable that the uses for magic are similar to the uses for technology, so magic must be extremely difficult or rare for it to have a point in a story. If it's difficult it is only useful in very rare situations unless it is powerful, but then it must be rare or why have technology. If it is too rare technology should out pace it and render it obsolete, unless the magic is easy. You could have magic mixed in with technology as well and make them blend seamlessly, but that is very hard.

To be honest, I wasn't intending having magic in the story at all. As I said, it's more character based. My last couple of fantasy WIPs were very magic-heavy so I fancy a change.

I sort of agree with what you're saying, if I'm understanding it correctly. I suppose magic and technology can do the same thing, making life easier etc, but I think blending the two can be done so long as you limit them a bit. I don't mean make them rare or incredibly difficult, but just set boundaries for each one. For instance, perhaps 'travelling magic' isn't a part of the magical canon in the world, therefore you'd need some sort of transport technology. Unless your magic does absolutely everything, you'd still have technology, and unless everyone is able to perform magic, you'd have people inventing stuff. (And if the magic is infallible and does everything, it'd make for a pretty boring plot, IMO. Then again if magic is everywhere and does everything, it would also be a bit boring for those living in the place, so you could possibly have a MC rebel and play around with technology just for something different to do, and then be ridiculed because it seems pointless to the others).

It'd also be quite interesting to stick the two together - perhaps you'd have racial or political groups that preferred one over the other, and if magic and technology did have to fight for dominance, it could well be the most popular rather than the most efficient one that takes over (I'm just thinking VHS vs Betamax here). I think it's quite easy to put them together too, as all you'd need was a cosmopolitan society, where you've got groups from one region that prefers magic and one that prefers gadgets.

Sorry, I'm kind of thinking out loud. Don't actually have magic in my story, as I said

Roanoke · Nov 17, 2007

I just talking about world building, disregarding plot and it's just a blanket statement for a single group, if you're going to have two separate groups for each, each group has to more or less follow the same rules. I'm saying that in a single group it makes sense to go with that.
Basically if everyone or even just middle class and up can teleport why have cars. (since the lower classes are unlikely to create something like an engine and are even less likely to be able to implement it since the people with power and money won't care.)
Also whether or not magic is useful at doing any one thing falls under how powerful it is, I should have made that bit clearer.

Even if it's not useful now, later maybe, or to someone else.

maxmordon · Nov 17, 2007

JessRamage said:
It'd also be quite interesting to stick the two together - perhaps you'd have racial or political groups that preferred one over the other, and if magic and technology did have to fight for dominance, it could well be the most popular rather than the most efficient one that takes over (I'm just thinking VHS vs Betamax here). I think it's quite easy to put them together too, as all you'd need was a cosmopolitan society, where you've got groups from one region that prefers magic and one that prefers gadgets.

Sorry, I'm kind of thinking out loud. Don't actually have magic in my story, as I said

I have something like this in my fantasy. I have several continents living that are what is called "Retro-Futurism" (Think in Lemony Snicket, Terry Gilliam's Brazil, etc.) and how the most powerful nation of the world fights and colonizes one continent inhabitated by classical fantasy setting. There is no magic, but the one who lives in the classical fantasy continent thinks it is

Chasing the Horizon · Nov 17, 2007

I write higher tech fantasy that also has lots of magic in it. It's not 2007 tech, but some fields are as advanced as 1970s America. The general rule I ended up using was that technology would fill magic's voids and vice versa. No-one would want a smelly old car when they could be riding a dragon or flying carpet, but they would be very interested in medical science if healing magic was rare and unpredictable. This means the tech level for each sector varies wildly (1840s transportation tech, 1970s medical tech). Its a truly rare fantasy world where magic fills even a fraction of the roles technology is capable of filling (magic dish cleaners, magic clothing makers, magic heaters, etc.). Also, magic can inspire technology. One country throws spheres of explosive magic at their enemy, and inspires their less magically inclined enemy to go home and build grenades to throw back at them.

I also don't present science and magic as being all that different. It goes without saying on my world that the characters will use both in their daily lives. Few of us even in modern America actually understand how most complex technology works. We just know how to use it. I don't see how magic is really so different.

Oh, and thanks to everyone for the book recommendations. I've been looking for some good higher tech-level fantasy to read.

Judg · Nov 18, 2007

"No-one would want a smelly old car when they could be riding a dragon or flying carpet"

Except when it's raining... Or if you have a fear of heights... Or you're too drunk to stay on the carpet (hopefully you've got a designated driver for the car in that case)...

Just being difficult.

Shweta · Nov 18, 2007

Judg said:
Except when it's raining... Or if you have a fear of heights...

Okay, now I'm imagining the fantasy character riding their magic carpet three feet off the ground, while holding an umbrella in one hand.

The carpet would, of course, be covered in oiled silk against the rain. Or possibly shrink-wrapped.

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