POV Question

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WVWriterGirl

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Okay, here goes.

Let's say our book is written in Jane's point of view. Jane and Sue are having a discussion, and Jane asks Sue a question. Sue pauses before answering. Now, as the writer of this scene, *I* know that Sue's thinking about the answer. Jane, though, as the "real" person in the book, has no idea what Sue's thinking about, or if she's thinking at all. For all Jane knows, Sue could be thinking about the grocery list, her husband or the steps to take to change a flat tire. How, then, would I phrase Jane's observations after she's asked the question?

1 - "Jane waited as Sue thought about the question."

2 - "Jane waited as Sue appeared to think about the question."

I'm a historical head-hopper, so sentences like #1 seem to smack of being an "almost" head hop. I'm constantly worried about this in everything I write. #1 seems to me to indicate that Jane knows that Sue is thinking about the question. #2 assumes that Sue is thinking about the question. Which is best, or what are your suggestions? Or, as I believe, am I just overthinking this whole thing?
 

Shweta

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If I'm talking to someone and they pause, I assume they're thinking about the question. So #1 would not bother me or look like a POV shift.

But if you want to avoid any accusation of head-hopping, you could go for "Jane waited while Sue paused" and leave the inference to the reader.
 

waylander

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You could also tell us what Jane sees while waiting for the answer that makes Jane think that Sue is thinking about the question.
 

maestrowork

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#1 seems to head-hop. But like Shweta said, most people would infer that Sue is thinking (unless she really is an airhead), so the inference is acceptable even in Jane's POV.

Or just write "Jane waited." There's no need to tell what Sue was doing. For all we know, Sue may just be spacing out.

If you must, since it's in Jane's POV, you can of course tell us what Jane thinks Sue's doing. "Jane waited, thinking Sue was taking too long to answer her." Basically, the readers must see things through Jane's eyes and thoughts. The narrator shouldn't intrude (that is, you know Sue is thinking about it, but not Jane), but could definitely report on what Jane knows or infers.
 
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Shweta

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"While Sue appeared to think" just seems a little odd to me, which is why I didn't pick #2.

If I'm looking at someone waiting for an answer, I'm not going "Oh, they're appearing to think about it". That seems... like overcorrection to me, I guess.
 

WVWriterGirl

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#1 seems to head-hop. But like Shweta said, most people would infer that Sue is thinking (unless she really is an airhead), so the inference is acceptable even in Jane's POV.

Or just write "Jane waited." There's no need to tell what Sue was doing. For all we know, Sue may just be spacing out.

If you must, since it's in Jane's POV, you can of course tell us what Jane thinks Sue's doing. "Jane waited, thinking Sue was taking too long to answer her." Basically, the readers must see things through Jane's eyes and thoughts. The narrator shouldn't intrude (that is, you know Sue is thinking about it, but not Jane), but could definitely report on what Jane knows or infers.

This is always my fear - I'm thinking, well, if I write it like THIS, it looks like Jane knows what Sue's thinking, but if I write it like THAT, then at least it looks like she's assuming she knows what Sue's thinking about. It's always been a weird conundrum for me, and I always feel like I'm overthinking it when I think about it at all.

I'm also always trying to "not make a big deal about it". I'm forever wondering whether or not I'm overwriting a scene like this. Shweta's "Jane waited while Sue paused" and Ray's "Jane waited" seems to me to be the most appropriate, as I'm afraid that anything more would be too much, and would draw attention to my (the author's) struggle to "get it right".
 

maestrowork

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I think the idea, for 3rd limited, is to try to stick to what the characters KNOW or can observe. The problem is that what Sue is thinking (or not) isn't really observable. In this case, I'd suggest doing a show, and not a tell. Don't tell us "Sue is thinking." Show us what both Jane and Sue are doing -- Jane waited; Sue stared into the distance, chewing her lip. Let the readers make the inference themselves.
 

Shweta

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I'm also always trying to "not make a big deal about it". I'm forever wondering whether or not I'm overwriting a scene like this. Shweta's "Jane waited while Sue paused" and Ray's "Jane waited" seems to me to be the most appropriate, as I'm afraid that anything more would be too much, and would draw attention to my (the author's) struggle to "get it right".

The advantage of overwriting, I find, is that it's pretty easy to cut the scene down in edits. I often put in everything, and once I have a full story, I go in thinking 'would the character really know/notice this?' and remove the bits that I don't need.

Inefficient, I guess, but it can work :)
 

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1 - "Jane waited as Sue thought about the question."

2 - "Jane waited as Sue appeared to think about the question."
3 - Jane wondered what the hell Sue was thinking, if anything. She felt like slapping the bubblehead to hurry her along. Christ, did she think they had all day?

-Derek
 

sunna

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"Sue appeared" is more in form with 3rd limited, IMO - but as a reader I don't think #1 would throw me off as long as it was already established that Jane knew Sue well enough to know that she was thinking. As Maestro said, it's limited to what the characters know/can observe; if Jane knows that Sue always thinks before answering this kind of question, or the situation that might make her hesitate, or can read her expression, etc., than it would be believable.

And, as illustrated by the above paragraph, I also tend to err on the side of overwriting. :D
 

CaroGirl

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You can stay in POV by describing what the POV character observes about the other person, and then allow the reader to draw her own conclusion about what's going on in her head.

Sue paused and her face took on a contemplative look.
Sue paused and twirled a strand of her hair around an index finger.

You can do better than those, but I'm sure you see what I mean.
 

job

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To avoid problems with POV, you just stick to those aspects of reality Jane has direct awareness of and those assumptions she can legitimately make.

Sue was obviously thinking the question over.
Sue looked puzzled.
Sue was apparently pondering on all this.
Sue took a minute to think about it before replying.



A related question though ...
What are you trying to accomplish by telling us that Sue is thinking before she answers?

Generally we don't need to share this sort of obvious information with the reader.


-- If you just want to put a pause in the conversation so it doesn't all pile up on top of us, you can drop in some stage business.

"Who's the father of the child?" Jane whispered.
Sue played with the tassels on her bolero.
She said, "Marvin's a nice guy, isn't he? I mean, like, he'd make a good father."


-- If you want this to be a significant pause, where the pause itself is part of what you're trying to convery, then you can deal the pause into the conversation.

"Who's the father of the child?" Jane whispered.
Wind blew around for a while and a couple of ducks floated by.
"Is it important?" said Sue.


-- If it is, in and of itself, important that Sue is thinking ... you can make it clear why it's important/unusual/significant/odd/wonderful that Sue is thinking. You can comment on her manner of thinking.

"Who's the father of the child?" Jane whispered.
Sue's forehead screwed up like she was trying to remember something difficult in math class.
"Umm. It's complicated," she said.
 
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maestrowork

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If you really want a long pause, go for a long paragraph what Jane really thinks (while Sue is still "thinking"). The long paragraph serves as a nice pace-breaker to actually show the "pause."

"Who's the father of the child?" Jane whispered.
Sue looked away and bit her lower lip.
Jane remembered when they were children they used to play house. Sue had always wanted to be the mommy and the boy -- what's his name? -- the father. He was really cute and Jane wanted to be his wife, too. Back then they knew nothing about love, relationships and having babies. How fifteen years could change a person's entire world view.
"Marvin's a nice guy, isn't he? I mean, like, he'd make a good father," Sue said.
 

WVWriterGirl

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Wow, thanks, y'all, for all the advice and different viewpoints. I've thought about all this for a long time, but a lot of what you guys have had to say are things that I hadn't thought about. Thanks for your time.

Please, continue on, though - I'm learning bunches!
 

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I love Ray's example. If you want to avoid head-hopping and keep it simple (#2 doesn't sound natural to me), you could go for what Jane sees - Sue might have looked away, stared at her hands, whatever people do to gain some time. That would pause the dialogue as it reads and would be interpreted as a pause in the actual dialogue as well, imo.

Ray's piece is also good because it uses the pause in conversation for showing us what Jane's thinking in a way that's relevant to the dialogue but not directly related - which gives it more realism.

That said, the first example wouldn't put me off. It's just that the actions you describe (waiting and thinking) could be replaced by more vivid and expressive stuff.
 
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