Plot

maestrowork · Nov 5, 2007

Questions for writers and readers alike:

Do you prefer the plot to keep going and every scene or chapter move the plot along... or do you like to have scenes that may be there to put you in the world, get to know the characters better, etc. (settings, character development -- not necessarily plot advancement).

Let me clarify. For example, if your plot is that character A finds out a secret about B, kills him, and escapes. Do you prefer to have a tight plot that follows the arc, scene by scene? Do you prefer the plot to unfold slowly, where you get to experience the world and the characters development and not necessarily that every scene leads to the next plot point (e.g. maybe there's a scene of A and B playing basketball and they get to know each other better... before A decides to kill B two chapters later...)

Some of this, I suppose, has to do with pacing. If you want a fast-paced story, then each scene should have a purpose and advance the plot in the right direction. Then there are times when slowing down the story and adding layers that show the setting, characters, etc. make the plot so much richer with context.

How do you like your stories to unfold?

JoNightshade · Nov 5, 2007

I think this is a matter of individual taste. For me, I always prefer character over plot. If you can make me fall in love with a character, I'll follow him or her anywhere. The key is that I have to fall in love with them-- if I don't, going with him to the store or gym or whatever is going to bore me to death. But if you have a strong plot, I may keep reading just out of curiosity, to see what happens.

Example: Sherlock Holmes. I think his stories are a great example of blending both character and plot. Every scene is centered around solving the mystery, but sometimes the mystery is boring to me. But I fell in love with Holmes, so I will keep reading no matter what. In fact, I would love it if there were MORE character and less plot in those.

Shadow_Ferret · Nov 5, 2007

I don't mind if the writer meanders off every so often and gives us glimpses into the character's personality even if it has nothing to do with plot as long as the story telling remains interesting and vibrant.

maestrowork · Nov 5, 2007

I don't want this to turn into another discussion on character vs. plot.

Specifically, my dilemma is that I have a plot arc I want to finish off, but I am hesitant to just write A->B->C and be done with it. My gut feeling is that I want to meander a bit, show the life and struggling within that environment, and the interactions between the characters, that may or may not have anything to do with A->B->C. Don't get me wrong, eventually A, B, and C will happen, but they're not necessarily in immediate sequence.

I was just wondering if readers would rather see A, B, C unfold more directly, or if they wouldn't mind wandering around a bit before everything comes to a head.

JoNightshade · Nov 5, 2007

What about subplots, then? I feel like everything you do should have some sort of aim, but it's not always easy to define. Maybe your character isn't directly impacting your ABC plot, but what about DEF? I think that's fine.

Jaycinth · Nov 5, 2007

I tend to think of my setting as a 'character', so when I write I spend some time developing it.

You know like 'Gormenghast Castle', 'Middle Earth', 'Wonderland', 'Oz'.... All of those places. Those stories wouldn't have been half as good without the setting being treated as a character.

StoryG27 · Nov 5, 2007

Honestly, if it is written and well and is interesting, I don't care if it is set-up or plot. However, the stories I just can't put down seem fast-paced, with multiple plots, every chapter moving up or down one of the story arc's as it leads and somehow ties into the "main" plot. Those, I really enjoy. But sometimes, I want a slower paced, more relaxing read. But I don't like "filling." If it can go A-B-C, do it. Don't, as an after thought, pour in brilliant prose just 'cuz you can. Just my opinion, of course.

jannawrites · Nov 5, 2007

Yes, I like a plot to (if it's executed well) take me through as much of the characters' lives as possible. I won't become invested in their story if I'm told too little about them. In your example, Ray, I'd want to read about the basketball game between the two, to get a better idea as to their connection and the ensuing murder. If it can somehow be traced to the plot, I want it in there.

The key in writing this way is whether all the details come full circle and work together toward the overall plot. My novel has a lot of subplots surrounding my MC, but they all tie in to the ultimate goal of my book.

Does this make sense or am I rambling?

blacbird · Nov 5, 2007

Even in allegedly "plot-driven" genres, plot-digressive elements often provide some of the most enjoyable portions of the ride. Rex Stout's long-running Nero Wolfe series features, in every story, diversions about Wolfe's obsession with orchid-growing and his in-house gourmet chef Fritz and exotic food preparation, neither of which generally have anything to do with the mystery plot. But they work because they are inherent to the characters and setting, and the stories would be thin misty ghosts without them.

I think a lot of the discussion dichotomy of "plot" and "character" is phony. They are all synergistic aspects of that think called "story", and they need to be amalgamated into a satisfying whole. In the best, most reader-satisfying novels, they generally are.

caw

Simple Living · Nov 5, 2007

In my opinion, there should be a reason for everything. If two characters go out and play basketball and it has nothing to do with the story, that would tick me off. If the writer wants to play ball with one of his characters, go for it but leave me out of it.

If they're going out to play ball in order to keep up appearances, or to get someone to keep from being suspicious, or to privately talk about the secret, etc., then fine. But playing ball just because the character is a great guy? No way. Move the story along.

TheIT · Nov 5, 2007

In the novel draft I just finished (yay!) I had a very linear progression of events, and I had the same dilemma of wondering whether I should have a diversion. I decided to add a side trip. The main plot line was A->B->C, so in between A and B the characters discovered another obligation which took them away from the main storyline but focused on one of the subplots. They knew B was coming, but I made it so that B could be delayed for a little while. The side trip became invaluable for character development.

Either the straightline progression or diversion works for me as a reader depending on the story. Sometimes I like wandering around smelling the roses before getting back on the path, while other times I like the impending buildup of suspense going up the roller coaster. I'd suggest writing it one way, then see whether it works.

mscelina · Nov 5, 2007

Build and plateau. Build and plateau. I like a constant build to an sction scene, then a plateau to give a reader a chance to assimilate what has happened and to set the scene for the next build or to delve into a subplot. As long as everything contributes to the ultimate resolution of the main plotline, it seems to work for me.

Prawn · Nov 5, 2007

I like a tight plot temporally, but if you have sub plots happening concurrently, or flashbacks to a time before for character development, that's fine.

PeeDee · Nov 5, 2007

It depends completely on the individual book, and I mean that as both a reader and a writer.

For example: Heart Shaped Box is a tight, onward moving plot, and I adore it just the way it is. I never stopped and wanted to learn more along the way, it worked perfectly for me, as a reader.

On the other hand, American Gods and War for the Oaks both meander. With War for the Oaks, there are long stretches where I could care less about the War between the Fairie realms, I just want to read about the band gigs.

And American Gods meanders heavily. Sometimes, we just have descriptions of him driving places, or a recipe for chili, or point-by-point descriptions of his night in a hotel room (everything is described, from going to the bathroom to setting the timer on the TV, etc.) and with the way Neil Gaiman handles it, it works. When Shadow goes to Lakeside, I could read a whole book just with his mudane adventures there.

And nowthat I think of it, Bag of Bones also meandered heavily, and I enjoyed that book no end. It might be my favorite Steve King book.

Hm. So reader-wise, it seems I prefer a well-written meandering-plot book.

...

As a writer, it depends on the story. For example, my Rome novel has very little deviance. It goes and goes straight to the end, where it's done.

But with The Nondescript, I'm only at the beginning and I can already see places where I'm going to meander and wander all over the place from my plot, and I'm looking forward to it muchly.

(More than Rome, actually: I wonder if this makes me a meandering-plot-writer too. Very interesting, I've never thought about this before.)

MidnightMuse · Nov 5, 2007

As a reader, if the characters are well written and developed, I love to meander with them. I know they've got a plot to do, and I know they're doing it, but little side trips and character excursions delight me.

If the characters are marginally written, or I've failed to connect with them, then the book's gettin' set down no matter what they're doing. Sometimes going from A - B - C without any side trips is boring as all get out.

As a writer, I set out assuming the reader wants to hurry along, I keep telling myself "the rules, remember the rules - if it doesn't advance the plot, chuck it." but by nature, I write side trips, smaller sub plots, personal glimpses that make the characters individuals that hopefully the reader is interested in and caring about.

I love a detailed, interesting world. One that doesn't bore, but comes alive with depth and clarity. And that's the trick, ain't it?

CheshireCat · Nov 5, 2007

maestrowork said:
I was just wondering if readers would rather see A, B, C unfold more directly, or if they wouldn't mind wandering around a bit before everything comes to a head.

Well, that would depend on the reader's tastes, I imagine.

Write for yourself, follow your hunches and gut feelings. Some readers will agree with the choices you make and some won't.

But your name's on the cover.

heyjude · Nov 5, 2007

I like a bit of downtime in a book. The trick is if there's too much downtime... I wander off in search of chocolate and don't come back.

PeeDee · Nov 5, 2007

MidnightMuse said:
As a writer, I set out assuming the reader wants to hurry along, I keep telling myself "the rules, remember the rules - if it doesn't advance the plot, chuck it." but by nature, I write side trips, smaller sub plots, personal glimpses that make the characters individuals that hopefully the reader is interested in and caring about.

That rule is one which I have experimentally thrown out the window. I have expounded it into something else.

All material must:

1) Advance Plot, or Character, Or World

2) Be interesting.

And that's it. That means I can go into a rambling dissertation about somebody's life, or somebody's dinner, or the damn weather if I want, and if it's interesting and it ties into something somewhere, then I'm okay with it.

...

The second best thing any writer can do is to know the rules. The best thing any writer can do is to continually fiddle with them, see what breaks and what combines and what happens. In writing, you should absolutely pick at it...

maestrowork · Nov 5, 2007

Thanks for the thoughts. Very interesting.

As a reader I like a bit of meandering to get to know the world, the settings, the characters. But too much meandering I'd start thinking "where is the plot?"

As a writer, I find myself trying to rush through the plot going from A to B to C, but also feeling unsatisfied. There seems to be so much more to explore and many different nuances and little stories to tell in that setting, that can be interesting, and that the plot will happen, but can wait a bit.

Voyager · Nov 5, 2007

If I like the characters, and especially if they're funny, despite the genre, I always love cozy, getting to know you scenes. Why do you think people write fanfic?

MidnightMuse · Nov 5, 2007

As a reader, I love the subplots and nuances. I want that meal to be filling and satisfying on all counts - character/world/plot. I'd much rather have that than a quick shot of V-8 juice and on to the next one.

qdsb · Nov 5, 2007

maestrowork said:
I don't want this to turn into another discussion on character vs. plot.

Specifically, my dilemma is that I have a plot arc I want to finish off, but I am hesitant to just write A->B->C and be done with it. My gut feeling is that I want to meander a bit, show the life and struggling within that environment, and the interactions between the characters, that may or may not have anything to do with A->B->C. Don't get me wrong, eventually A, B, and C will happen, but they're not necessarily in immediate sequence.

I was just wondering if readers would rather see A, B, C unfold more directly, or if they wouldn't mind wandering around a bit before everything comes to a head.

Well, I'm no expert, but I think you should go with your gut. And here's why: I think showing a bit of the life and underlying significance of the struggle helps make the difference between an interesting plot and a moving one.

Placement and balance are, I'm sure, key to how well such "quiet" interludes work. You certainly don't want to create a predictable rhythm to the structure, but you probably also don't want to place just one or two conspicuous "slow" spots in an otherwise all-action story either.

qdsb · Nov 5, 2007

As for the "If it doesn't advance the plot" pseudo-rule...my feeling is that a writer needs to make me care about advancing the plot to begin with.

If I'm not invested in a character's struggle, then I don't care whether she lives or dies. Hypothetically speaking.

Azure Skye · Nov 5, 2007

I prefer a tight plot for the most part. Meandering is fine and fun especially if it shows character development but meandering too long and I lose interest.

<---- has a short attention span

Pointless meandering...I'll pass.

(I was thinking as I was writing this so forgive me)

Judg · Nov 5, 2007

I like meandering, both as a reader and a writer. As a writer, I try to ensure that there is still some element of conflict, however minor, going on. And that at the end of the meander, we know something important about the character or the world that will serve us later.

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