Humor me

[scripter1]

Last night I was discussing plot ideas with my husband. (he's not a writer.) I told him my idea and he had another.

He proposed that I put both ideas before the boards and see what other writers thought. Soooo ;

Storyline.

Kate is a radical environmentalist who will soon be going to Australia to do a photo shoot and story on the damage done by wild horses (brumbies). Her mind will be changed about saving the horses when she witnesses the brutality of an actual cull. (killing the horses)

(this is NOT the logline.)

Idea one. Kate is not interested in saving the brumbies because she was abused while growing up on a horse farm and now she hates horses.

Idea two. A younger Kate was seriously hurt by a wild horse she was trying to save and now doesn't believe in bothering to save them.

So, comments?

Thoughts?

[Joe Calabrese]

I don't think you need either reason for her to have negative views towards horses. Many people don't like animals or view them as a tool for mankind-- a beast without a soul attitude. I think her negative feelings to the problem can be justified without having her have demons in the closet.

After all, do people who wear fur have a deep seeded memory of being attacked by a wild mink? No.

But if you can present her feelings against the horses (which eventually change when she gets to meet them) be because of general society feelings and/or business as usual, then I think you can have a more powerfull statement for animal rights.

IMHO

[vig]

remember the scene in seabiscuit when the trainer is trying to save the perfectly good horse... (the theme) of the movie.

you have something affecting the charcter; the mindset of the trainer, this man who has ALSO been forgotten by the world, was that the horse isn't worthless, the world that it lives in deems it worthless, but it is still alive, heallthy part of nature. it was a kind of juxtapostion scene of the clmate in todays world, even though it fit the time period it was in.

those are the timeless scenes in movies that are in contrast to the vapid quality of cinema today. (the green screen, animation, cgi and i robot state of filmaking)

the first idea can draw parralells between her abuse as a child and the visceral feeling she has as she experiences as her images of sadness, and physical abuse all coinicide with the smell of the farm, the noise she hears at night, everthing is about the horses. those moments after the torment and what she sees. HORSES.

The horses represent this cruel world ruled by humans who torture and prod and poke at everything whether it be horses, or little girls trapped on this huge farm.

that these horses never kick back, then just sit in the still of the night and wait until the next person tells them to run with blinders on.

there is huge potential for the arc and personal interaction you can have for the LEAD CHARACTER and the bond she has for horses as she discovers herself as she tries to save the animals she once thougt insignificant.

but as writing is, and some of the things i've tried to tell you about your critques is that there is a world beyond the ordinary thought process that you don't touch on.

my opinion is that if in herchild hood you incorporae idea one and two. that as a child she seeked solace in the barn one day, or took a horse she liked and rode it or something and the horse broke it's leg because of her; she didn't ride it right, or didnt' shoe the horse correctly, and subsequently catched a beating, or locked in a stable or somehting crazy that galvenizes the character to the theme of the story.

it's not one or the other, many times it' s both. HER scars run deep, literally mentaphorically; maybe the beating she took left a permant mark somewhere on her body.

or when the horse was put to death, her father made her watch him shoot it (that she is the reason this useless animals got shot) she carried that guilt around with, as people grow, then internalize things... her baggage, is ideas one and two combined that fuels the present story of her trying to save these things that once were her nightmare.

show rather than tels and create a perfect mental obstacle that this girl has to overcome as you devleople the theme of the story through your characters.

vig

[kojled]

scripter 1

this kind of idea makes it to cable or tv but would tank as a feature. people just don't go to see this kind of thing at the movies

that being said i don't like either idea. not only that, i think both are poor


zilla

[dpaterso]

What Joe said. Your two variations seem unnecessary, tacked on. She doesn't have to go in hostile toward horses -- she just has to see the slaughter and wake up.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[Joe Calabrese]

vig has a good point, but I would add to keep it subtle and open to interpretation.

For instance.

In "Million Dollar Baby" it is more powerful NOT knowing why Clint's daughter won't write back or even accept the letters.

If you were to come out as say it was because he neglected her, many people would say "is that all?" If you said it was sexual abuse, many people would have a hard time feeling for this character as a protagonist.

By keeping it ambiguous, you create a sense of what each reader would find horrible but up to thier own comfort level.

So, I would hint at what her problem with horses are but I would be ambiguous and let the audience think a little.

PS. Saying this would be a tv movie vs. feature is like saying that Horse Whisperer, Bridges of Madison County and many other well respected features should have been only for tv. It's all about scope and presentation. It you write it with high personal stakes it can work as a feature... But even if it turns up as a tv movie of the week, it's still good money if you can get it.

Good luck.

[BottomlessCup]

I don't think either idea works. You might be coming at it from the wrong direction. You want a character to feel a certain emotion in a certain situation (devastation/righteous anger at the brumbie's slaughter) and you're trying to assemble a character to fit those needs. I think it'll inevitably feel contrived and cliche if you use that tact.

Also, I find it hard to believe a "radical environmentalist" would be apathetic about the slaughter of wild horses, regardless of her background. Even if she was, a radical environmentalist finding compassion for animals is not an intersting reversal.

Create an organic character and put her in the situation. See what happens. I think it would work better with a character who's more legitimately cynical. Someone for whom her deep compassion is a genuine shock, maybe even an embarrassment.

[kojled]

scripter 1

i've changed my mind. these ideas should make great features. this is because 'horse whisperer', 'bridges of madison county', and many other well respected movies were not made for tv. i'm sure you wouldn't argue with this logic. however, if your pic is made for tv, there's good money in that, too (if you can get it)

i recommend you put all your energy into it. i was blind when i posted my first answer. sorry


zilla

[scripter1]

Wow, some really great comments from everybody............. except Zilla : ) but hey, thanks for the time you took anyway.
Vig, you had to get that dig in there huh?

Okay, quite a while ago I got some feedback from several other writers I have a degree of respect for saying that I needed my character to arc more in order to strengthen the story. I hadn't really pushed things hard enough.

The notes hit home, they made sense, I agreed with them...... to a point.

I've been trying to come up with ways to change this character to make a better, more pointed, more revealing story.

She started out as a horse photographer and the deaths were appalling to her. She's going to expose it to the world (much like the fur seal trade was exposed by film many years ago.) Give the world some images of these horses and inspire them to action. She went in a horse lover and at the end all she did was take some pictures and survive the Outback.

It was a very flat, one-dimensional story but I feel that this character is more organic to the story.

But now that I'm trying to apply the advice I feel like I'm forcing a square peg into a round hole. Before, the story flowed and the words came easily.

Now, well, I’m in writer’s hell.

The script is in its fourth draft.
Yes, it is my first one though I have several others in various stages.
I am bound by my conscious to finish it and make every effort to use it.
(It is loosely based on some real events.)

I have an industry contact that is waiting for a good draft.
I just haven't felt it's really ready yet, um,…. not to, er, state the obvious.

(Actually, I'm almost at the point of asking for someone else to come in and work with me on it.
I think I COULD send it in its current state and it might go somewhere but I'm not sure how long I would be kept in the loop on it.)

[NikeeGoddess]

i don't get why she'd go all that way to photograph horses if she doesn't even like the beasts. was it a forced assignment?

anyhoo: i don't really like either of your two background stories. i also don't think they're necessary unless they'll be cruicial later in the story which btw i'm assuming they are....and that's why i don't like either of the stories.

another comment - this reminds me of an old western (sorry, the name escapes me) where several diseased cattle were for corraled into a giant grave and slaughtered. at the time this was produced people were comparing it to the slaughter of jews during the holocauste. i'm sure many people would care about the cattle except for this similarity.
so....
another example - and i'm not sure about the conditions of the brumbies being slaughtered but... the slaughter of american buffalo just so the native americans couldn't have them and would starve and not have hides for clothing.... makes one feel more sorry for the buffalo than the natives.
and....
i'm recalling that a while back i brought up the gorillas in the mist comparison.
after seeing that, the audience feels more sorry for the gorillas than they did for the woman who tried to save them.

can you find a more identifiable reason for her to find compasion for the brumbies?

[randesq]

I would think you would have ample room for other 'connected' stories within the theme you presented. Why not use the 'horse' angle as the spine and build your other stories off of it? What are the individual journeys of each character and how does their intersection with one another create more conflict. Why not try whittling your central storyline into the pillar that supports the rest of your subplots.

i.e. make her fall in love with the one land owner that prevents the killing of wild horses on his land.

Or make it like lone star where see goes for the horses but gets tangled up in a small town whodunit.

Poor examples, maybe - but if you stretch your story into places you wouldn't normally go, you can achieve something unique.

Pancake a few more stories onto your horse story and I think you can make it compelling. You always have a shot at any story if you can write like horton foote . . . now if you can't deliver tender mercies, have to beef up the story.

[Wildeblood]

Kate is a radical environmentalist who will soon be going to Australia to do a photo shoot and story on the damage done by wild horses (brumbies).Brumbies damage the environment?
Her mind will be changed about saving the horses when she witnesses the brutality of an actual cull. (killing the horses)They cull brumbies? (Maybe they do somewhere. It certainly isn't an environmental issue.)

I'm not qualified to comment on which of your two back-story ideas is more compelling, but I can say you have some strange ideas about Australia.

[dpaterso]

Everyone has some strange ideas about Australia.

Goest thou to the great god Google and offer the following prayer:

"brumbies cull australia"

Lo and behold, information shall be dispensed.

If it's all lies, do tell.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[JustinoXXV]

There are radical environmentalists who will argue for the slaughter of non native species. Perhaps Kate things that since horses are not native to Australia, that should be wiped off the continent, except for those who are used by people. There are people who have these attitudes when an animal adapts to a new habitat (either they were introduced by people or they somehow got to that new habitat).

So I do think Scripter's idea could work. Just make sure people understand that environmentalism doesn't necessary equal animal rights.

[Joe Calabrese]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe there is a lizard or frog that was brought to Australia a few decades back to fix a certain bug problem farmers had. Now, the frog/lizard runs so rampant throughout the country, they are a worse problem then the original bugs. Hordes of them running amok.

[lucyishome]

Joe I just had to check. I am glad you have your photo up. For a minute I thought you were a teacher whose class I taught a personal finance course to through Junior Achievement. Ok moving onward now.

Anne