Narration Question

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

My novel is first person POV. The MC is a late 20ish early 30ish slacker. I'm afraid some of his narration may be too conversational.
Is this possible?
Do you prefer a conversational/casual narrator? Are there downfalls to this? do you prefer a more formal narration? he uses specific language, I don't mean casual as in a lot of throw away useless, non-descriptive language, I mean, for example, when he hit what he considered to be a low point, in narration he says, welcome to the bottom rung, folks. Is that drawing the reader in to the story too much?
As I am going through my second draft, I'm solidifying his voice, and it seems to be leaning this way more than I had expected. It suits him, but how casual should this narrator be?

If you need examples I'll go digging through the MS to find some.

thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

Danger Jane · Nov 2, 2007

If it's a random address, then it'll be jarring. But it sounds like this is just a part of your voice, which means it'll probably work. Just make sure that you're not using "dear reader" too infrequently, and it'll be fine.

CaroGirl · Nov 2, 2007

The most important thing for me is that the narration match the character. The other really important factor is making sure the narration stays consistent throughout the ms. Lapses in "voice" are sure to pull the reader out of the narrative and have them engage in the dreaded "book throw".

I think having a more conversational tone could work very well.

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

It is consistent throughout. It is definitely his voice. It emerged in first draft and stayed, I'm just making sure he stays in the same voice and it's turned out fairly conversationally.
He doesn't frequently address the audience. That was a one-timer (and it sort of freaked me out when I was reading it in edits.).
It is definitely who he is. Just is.
hhmm...I'm going to probably need fresh eyes to tell me if it is too casual.

Doodlebug · Nov 2, 2007

I don't write a lot of first person, but when I do, I let the character's voice come through. Since it is your character speaking, you want his/her personality to really come across to the readers. I don't think that having the MC you described (20/30is slacker type) talk like an NPR host would really not ring true with your readers. Furthermore, the quote you used ("Welcome to the bottom rung, folks") sounds spot on!

To put it briefly, I vote for going conversational

a_sharp · Nov 2, 2007

If it's a one-off as you say, how about "Welcome to the bottom rung, [his name]." Chiding himself. Or maybe "jerk" or some other self-deprecating term if it fits his character.

Toothpaste · Nov 2, 2007

I really like narration that has personality to it, in fact not only that, but narration that breaks the fourth wall. I've actually gotten into trouble for it (well not exactly trouble but there are reviews floating around out there for Alex that say something like "you either love the voice, or you hate it" or "you have to get used to the voice"). I say take a risk and go for it. So what, some people might not like that kind of thing, but others really love it. Do what works best for your book, and what you find enjoyable!

Good luck!

Spiny Norman · Nov 2, 2007

If the voice is strong enough it'll overwhelm all other weaknesses. It's fine to have him address himself or even address the idea that his life is a story, or perhaps an overarching sequence of events, in a stream of consciousness kind of way.

"This was not how things were supposed to go," or "This wasn't what I wanted or what I expected to find" both are narration that rises above strictly describing events, but function because you're in the character's head. Like, Fight Club (both the book and the movie) has a fantastically strong voice where the narrator acknowledges a larger plan or addresses himself or the reader. Likewise, Sin City has a lot of scenes like that, such as when Dwight has a live grenade tossed at him and he thinks, "And things seemed to be going so well..."

It adds more to the character and even sucks the reader into the story more. The gravity of these events is so strong even the main character narrating himself is shocked.

KTC · Nov 2, 2007

I think it works when consistent. This is something done in narrated movies too, and I personally dig it. Like turning to the audience and saying, "This is how much of a loser I am." Yes...if this is part of his voice, it works for me as a reader. (I read from your first draft and thought the voice of the narrator was fabulous, Trish.)

Voyager · Nov 2, 2007

I agree, it gives it a sort of, the narrator is taking me along with him, feel, tossing out asides as he tells his tale. It makes it more intimate, more like he's speaking to me instead of just dictating a story.

maestrowork · Nov 2, 2007

There's nothing wrong with a conversational narrative, especially in first person. Go with it.

JLCwrites · Nov 2, 2007

Agreeing with all of the above and adding an example book I just read that broke the fourth wall. It's 3rd person PoV which is different from yours, but I was impressed with how well it worked. It's a MG book and it also received the Newbery Medal.

The Tale of Despereaux By Kate DiCamillo

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

examples:
1)I could always count on Tim to take my side, no matter how stupid my particular side happened to be at the time.

2)I couldn’t take care of her now and I heard Lisa’s voice remind me that I could not even take care of myself. She wasn’t wrong.

3)And wow, “my father made me sad” is almost impossible for someone like me to say.

4)Shy, sweet Kate Sinclair from my father's journal - my very own sensitive, heartbroken mother. The woman who walked away from me because dad told her to, abandoned the call of fierce motherhood, silencing it for eighteen months until the sobbing phone call. As a frail widow, she broke the silence and now she was an oddball, drunk June Cleaver - dear. I wanted to look in the trunk and get the hell out of there as fast as I could.

5)“Fine.” I answered I couldn’t order the words in my head to say more; like what the hell are you doing with Oliver and invading my life with your bullshit? What did you do to my mother? Why are you acting so cool?

maestrowork · Nov 2, 2007

The greatest thing about 1st person is that you're sitting there listening to the narrator telling you the story. If you can't use his voice, why even bother?

JLCwrites · Nov 2, 2007

All of those are great! I love the 'voice'.

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

As I was reading through I found a scene where what MC heard and responded to is not what the person said. She said "sorry about your jaw." (she had punched him). He hears "sorry about your loss" (meaning her). His response was "you were no great loss but thanks for the sympathy."
He introduces the horribly awkward scene by saying, "and now for a truly painful moment"

Is that too casual?

JLCwrites · Nov 2, 2007

I don't think so. It seems like he is wanting to make a connection with the reader. Which I think will help the reader get close to him.

KTC · Nov 2, 2007

I dig them, Trish. And I'm not just sayin' that because you're my couch jumpin' partner. It works especially well in first person...as others have said. You're on the money. Continue on...

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

He's sort of pathetic at first, and I think he sometimes uses narration to justify his behavior. It's his opportunity to explain himself. I just don't want it to be awkward or odd that he is so comfortable with the reader. Is that intimacy with the reader common, ok, acceptable?

Maybe I'm overthinking this.

Back to the advice you all have given, thank you. Consistency is the most important thing. I have to keep telling myself that or I'm going to be rewriting all of the narration.

And - out of pure laziness, I don't want to rewrite all of the narration.

KTC · Nov 2, 2007

Pathetic is a great place to grow from. That he shares that he is pathetic with the reader...it endears him.

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

He claims to have made an art of mediocrity. And everything that is happening to him that is requiring him to change and care and become passionate is really screwing with his mediocrity. (I sort of find him humorous - but of course I do, I wrote him.) I just don't know how others will perceive him.
thanks for the boost.

FennelGiraffe · Nov 2, 2007

Stew21 said:
I mean, for example, when he hit what he considered to be a low point, in narration he says, welcome to the bottom rung, folks.

Stew21 said:
He doesn't frequently address the audience. That was a one-timer (and it sort of freaked me out when I was reading it in edits.).

Casual isn't the problem; a casual voice in 1st person is just fine. Your problem is the 4th wall (addressing the reader).

The 4th wall can be a little tricky to think about when you're writing 1st person. At first glance, it might seem there is never a 4th wall because your char must be telling his story to someone. However, that's not the case. The difference is that your char can directly address his audience, as an audience, or he can just tell his story without ever stepping out of the story to talk to them directly.

Either choice is valid, but you should pick one and stick to it consistently. Your char should either regularly address the reader or never address the reader. Doing it only once is jarring and may knock readers out of the story.

Stew21 · Nov 2, 2007

good point! Thank you for your insight.

Stew21 · Nov 3, 2007

FennelGiraffe said:
Casual isn't the problem; a casual voice in 1st person is just fine. Your problem is the 4th wall (addressing the reader).

The 4th wall can be a little tricky to think about when you're writing 1st person. At first glance, it might seem there is never a 4th wall because your char must be telling his story to someone. However, that's not the case. The difference is that your char can directly address his audience, as an audience, or he can just tell his story without ever stepping out of the story to talk to them directly.

Either choice is valid, but you should pick one and stick to it consistently. Your char should either regularly address the reader or never address the reader. Doing it only once is jarring and may knock readers out of the story.

ok. I thought about this a lot last night. It really is in his character to tell the story intimately/casually. Even though he doesn't directly address the audience besides that once, he comes very close to it several times. It isn't horribly jarring, I don't believe, that he says Welcome to the bottom rung, folks. He comes very close to do it in other places as well.
So in order to make it consistent should he address them explicitly more often or less?

(overthinking it again, aren't I?)

Wraith · Nov 3, 2007

Stew21 said:
ok. I thought about this a lot last night. It really is in his character to tell the story intimately/casually. Even though he doesn't directly address the audience besides that once, he comes very close to it several times. It isn't horribly jarring, I don't believe, that he says Welcome to the bottom rung, folks. He comes very close to do it in other places as well.
So in order to make it consistent should he address them explicitly more often or less?

(overthinking it again, aren't I?)

I like that sort of voice. I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's the character's natural voice and it's not overdone. It's great to see personality in a narrator, when the way he tells his own story also tells me something about him. It's also pretty hard to develop such a voice, so when you have it, stick to it.

These are the characters that readers most symphatise with, imo. And I love that 'Welcome...' line, too.

I don't think you need to add more of that kind of intrusions to keep it consistent, though. If that one instance doesn't seem out of place, if it suits his overall tone (you're saying he gets close to it often), you should probably stick to what comes naturally.

What matters, imo, is to let the reader see from the beginning that the character is telling his own story in a casual way, maybe tinged with irony/whatever you put in his voice, and thus it can be implied that the story is addressed to someone and the 'welcome' line doesn't come completely out of the blue. You don't have to do it on purpose/go to great lengths to insert a 'dear reader' or 'folks' in each chapter, but it must be implied by the voice. Just my 2 cents.

But I'd definitely be attracted to a book written that way. Maybe it's just me, but it makes me feel more connected to the story, which is always a good thing.

Narration Question

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maestrowork

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