Making a cold heartless b**** likeable

althrasher · Nov 1, 2007

The title pretty much says it all. In my Nano, there's a girl who is really very cruel and selfish, but she has to be very well liked (particularly by the MC.) This is a connundrum, and I know I've met people like this in real life, but I can't think of what was so magnetic about them.

Any ideas?

melaniehoo · Nov 1, 2007

People like that tend to get a lot of attention, which can be attractive to others and draw them in. In my experience, the b****es are very sweet to a select group of people and they suck you in by showing you their nice side. Then when they turn you stick it out because you 'know' there's a nice person in there. JMHO

TrickyFiction · Nov 1, 2007

I think some might be drawn to people like because they seem fearless. Maybe people envy their apparent fearlessness. I don't know. I also think it may be a keep-your-enemies-closer kind of thing. You don't want to get on her bad side if her bad side is a "danger: do not cross" zone.

choppersmom · Nov 1, 2007

People like that are capable of being whomever they need to be, depending upon their audience and the circumstance. A person can woo you with sweetness and the appearance of friendship, then backbite you with no mercy. He or she can do this to peers, significant others, parents, siblings, those weaker than they, etc. etc. etc. Females around high-school age in particular are great at this kind of behavior. If a guy she has her eye on wants a funny girl, she'll be funny. If he wants a tough, independent girl, she'll be that. She'll mold herself to whatever shape will enable her to uncover his weaknesses, then she'll exploit them, and he may or may not see it in time to extricate himself unscathed from the relationship. So, to answer your question, what draws people to her is whatever they want. She'll make herself whatever is attractive to them, and be that until she has them where she wants them.

Note: I know this, but I was not one of those girls. I knew lots of them, but I wasn't one of them. Just thought I might put in that little disclaimer.

Voyager · Nov 1, 2007

good looks, intelligence, passive agression, manipulation. usually the people closest to this kind of bitch are unaware or choose not to see the negative aspects of her personality.

althrasher · Nov 1, 2007

These suggestions are all great...I'm incorperating some of them and she's already a much better character. Thanks!

FolkloreFanatic · Nov 1, 2007

Passive-aggressive behavior makes people seem insecure, so others may pity them instead of hating them. Also, if someone who's mean suddenly acts like they desperately need you, it triggers your own sense of self-esteem; it's playing to your ego.

Then there's the lack of fear that TF mentioned. I used to watch those polarizing, magnetic people, and I wanted to be like them sometimes just so that I could say what I really meant once in a while without social recriminations. I finally became fed up with myself and started to say whatever the hell I thought was pertinent, and people started listening, whether they agreed with me or not. It was a good thing.

Above all, it's hard to dislike someone who you want to emulate. We can't fully hate what we desire for ourselves.

mkcbunny · Nov 1, 2007

On a purely instinctive level, we all gravitate toward and cut slack for people we find attractive. Depending on who's view you're coming from, the bitch in question will have a different allure. Maybe it's physical, sexy, a look, the way she carries herself. Maybe it's the power, or humor -- the things others have mentioned above.

I think it's more about whose viewpoint you are presenting to the reader and conveying their perception of why she's commanding.

triceretops · Nov 1, 2007

Have her go to the rescue of a puppy hit in road. A bird with a broken wing. She's an animal lover.

Tri

Zelenka · Nov 1, 2007

There could also be a reason on the part of the other characters - some people stick with friends no matter how badly they're treated because they're afraid of having no friends.

JoNightshade · Nov 1, 2007

I think there's lots of different kinds of cold heartless bitches.

In literature, I'm quick to sympathize with the kind of girl who's had a rough life and does what she has to in order to survive, no matter what. (In fact one of my WIPs stars this kind of girl.)

In real life, my closest female friends are always very frank, honest people-- to the point of rudeness. This might strike others as being bitchy when in fact it's just honesty. Some people get it, some people don't. I like it because I can be straight with them and I know they aren't going to get offended, no matter what I say. I don't have to deal with all the confusion of social niceties (which I'm not good at).

John Paton · Nov 1, 2007

always wondered why I have no friends .... I shoulda put up with duh crap!

Hey Jess .. a wee wave frae somwun born in Cathcart. May yer lum always reek.

Regards
John

Zelenka · Nov 1, 2007

John Paton said:
always wondered why I have no friends .... I shoulda put up with duh crap!

Hey Jess .. a wee wave frae somwun born in Cathcart. May yer lum always reek.

Regards
John

A wave back, John! I live not far from Cathcart.
JessR

illiterwrite · Nov 2, 2007

Or a vulnerability.

Atlantis · Nov 2, 2007

Simple. Its the bad boy factor. Or in your case, the bad girl factor. People are attracted to rebels and people who seem dangerous and out of control. Its all about seeing how much you can flirt with danger and not get hurt. Plus, I think on some level, the reason people become attracted to bad boys and girls, is because on some level they want to see if they can change them. Take, for example, the Buffy and Spike relationship. She becomes attracted to him despite her better judgement because of his wild reckless behaviour. The danger element is too much for her to ignore. In the beginning, their relationship is fragemented and violent, but in the end it changes Spike, making him more human, causing her to be able to finally fall in love with him. You might not need to give your bad girl a redeeming quality, not at first anyway. Just being in the pressence of your MC could be enough to make her change her ways, just like it did for Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Never forget, everyone loves a rebel. They make for really sexy characters if done right.

David I · Nov 2, 2007

I think "likeable" is the wrong word here. From what you're describing, you seem to want someone captivating or fascinating. Think Hannibal Lecter.

Or, on the other side of the gender coin. check out the Kathleen Turner's role in the movie Body Heat. Likeable? Nope. Irresistable, yes.

blacbird · Nov 2, 2007

You might take a look at what Martha Stewart's publicity people are doing.

caw

Danger Jane · Nov 2, 2007

wow this is like my favorite thing to do in my writing

they have to be charming. And this isn't a requirement or anything--it definitely changes the tone of the character--but you can make her somewhat sympathetic. It doesn't need to make it to the page, ever, but it'll change the tone of the character in your mind and that's what'll translate to the page.

Think about the people like this character that you know in real life. They might be the most fickle, petty people on earth--but they have that charisma, that magnetism that always makes people want that bitch to like them.

WendyNYC · Nov 2, 2007

mkcbunny said:
On a purely instinctive level, we all gravitate toward and cut slack for people we find attractive. Depending on who's view you're coming from, the bitch in question will have a different allure. Maybe it's physical, sexy, a look, the way she carries herself. Maybe it's the power, or humor -- the things others have mentioned above.

I think it's more about whose viewpoint you are presenting to the reader and conveying their perception of why she's commanding.

I agree with this. Your MC can be captivated by a good looking female character and I think readers would understand that. For the reader to like her, though, she has to have a vunerability. Hmmm, how did margaret Mitchell do it in Gone With the Wind? Scarlett was bitchy and sneaky, but who wasn't charmed by her?

JoNightshade · Nov 2, 2007

WendyNYC said:
Scarlett was bitchy and sneaky, but who wasn't charmed by her?

Me. Bleh.

Siddow · Nov 2, 2007

Here's what I liked about a person who ended up being a cruel and selfish bastid:

1) he was generally affable, a real party guy
2) he threw lots of parties from his expensive lake home
3) in our group of friends, he was Alpha Male.

So, for the other characters to like her, I'd say she has to like to have fun, she needs money, and she needs to have power. Like Scarlett.

For the reader to like her, she needs to be self-aware enough to know she's a bitch, and feel kinda bad about that, even if she never works to overcome it.

WendyNYC · Nov 2, 2007

JoNightshade said:
Me. Bleh.

Guess you didn't like the book!

Scrawler · Nov 2, 2007

For truly cold and heartless, look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
These people can be extremely charming, personable, flattering and persuasive... and can also spew toxic hatred down your blouse.
It would depend also on if you wanted to portray her as a mini-bitch with a soft, vulnerable side (awww), or a major-bitch who just manipulates people by pretending to have a soft side.

Danger Jane · Nov 2, 2007

Scrawler said:
For truly cold and heartless, look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
These people can be extremely charming, personable, flattering and persuasive... and can also spew toxic hatred down your blouse.
It would depend also on if you wanted to portray her as a mini-bitch with a soft, vulnerable side (awww), or a major-bitch who just manipulates people by pretending to have a soft side.

Or I guess sociopathy then?? that'd be interesting.

Harvest · Nov 2, 2007

althrasher said:
I can't think of what was so magnetic about them.

Some of the most horrid women I've known are highly intelligent. They are able to size people up quickly and manipulate people/situations based on their needs. (For example: if uber witch wants to appear kind, she will treat an "untouchable" in a kind manner, but do so in a way so that she gets kudos for that act and can do it in a way that it looks spontaneous).

Also, two in particular that I'm thinking of have an ability to project "I'm sexy and beautiful, but I don't think that I am" which can be quite a turn on to men (from what I've seen). When the male is confronted with "oh she's just playing you...she knows she's gorgeous" the male comes back with "she doesn't know she's beautiful, how can she be playing me? She's real, down-to-earth, etc".

It can't be overstated that most tend to be pros at working their public image.

Making a cold heartless b**** likeable

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