Erroneous and damaging reporting - how??

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

Talk about irresponsible reporting! I can’t figure out how this one got through the channels – anyone care to take a guess?

I teach at a high school in the largest, fastest-growing district in the state of Idaho. Yesterday morning the district superintendent came over to talk with us about an article that came out around the nation yesterday which listed our school as a “drop-out factory”. Apparently, the “study” (I hesitate to call it a study since it was so terribly flawed) identified a bunch of schools with high drop-out rates and then issued a blanket statement that we are all failing our kids by not keeping them in school.

The real story here is this: the way the researchers at John’s Hopkins gathered data was to simply look at the number of freshmen in a given school in 2001. Then they went forward four years and looked at the number of graduating seniors in 2004. Here is the data for our school:

* In 2001 we had 684 9th graders
* In 2004 we graduated 343 seniors
Which equals a drop-out rate of 50%

* In 2002 we had 721 9th graders
* in 2005 we graduated 376 seniors
Which equals a drop-out rate of 48%

* In 2003 we had 478 9th graders
* in 2006 we graduated 405 seniors
Which equals a drop-out rate of 15%

On the surface it looks like we had a whole lot of kids drop out those two years, eh?? Here’s the kicker. In 2001 and 2002 our school was horribly overcrowded. We had 2500 kids packed into a school built for 1500. In 2003, another high school opened, which took over 1000 of our kids – including all those who had supposedly “dropped-out”!!!!

So now we are sitting here with a huge story in the local newspaper claiming we are a drop-out factory, when EVERYONE knows it isn’t true!! Our district superintendent spent the whole day before the article came out contacting the paper and the researchers at John’s Hopkins, and they all agree the data is flawed. And yet – they didn’t pull the article! Please help me understand how something so erroneous and damaging could possibly be printed in newspapers around the nation.

jst5150 · Nov 1, 2007

If everything you say jives, then that's irresponsible reporting (having worked with media for 19 years, I'd believe it). The focus should have been changed. However, shifting the focus to something more responsible doesn't sell newspapers. Dropouts sell. Shifting students doesn't.

This has more to do with editors and publishers than it does reporters. Reporters have to file a story. They want to move from page 6 to page 1. They may turn in a story filled wiht hafl-truths (which means they don;t lie), in order to boost themselves. Editors and publishers don't notice.

Again, unless there are a myriad other facts here not reported (or not told by you); and both are probably true since a story like this usually contains many facets, then the story's focus should have been shifted. Now comes the solution part ...

You need to write the newspaper; you need to have your school system's PR person (you should have one) aggressively attack the story. You need to get teachers stumping. You need to get parents telling the story. Until then, the newspaper's story has control of the conversation.

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

You wouldn't believe the response our school and district has mounted!! We've written letters to the editor, we've written to the researchers demanding a public apology, we've contacted the TV stations. I do feel that we, as a school, and our district office are doing everything we can. It just seems too bizarre that this was allowed to go through.

I guess I really shouldn't be surprised - after all I was living in a small town in Honduras that was supposedly "attacked" by the Sandinista army back in the 80's - just a week before a bill to approve $1 million dollars for contra aid was to be voted on. I can tell you first hand that the "raid" never happened. And it came out later (in the local Honduran paper) that the Sandinistas army did cross the border and raided a camp 8 km from the border WITH PERMISSION OF THE HONDURAN GOVERNMENT!! Of course - that bit of information never came out in the US papers.

benbradley · Nov 1, 2007

nancy sv said:
You wouldn't believe the response our school and district has mounted!! We've written letters to the editor, we've written to the researchers demanding a public apology, we've contacted the TV stations. I do feel that we, as a school, and our district office are doing everything we can. It just seems too bizarre that this was allowed to go through.

It seems there's one more thing that could be done. I presume the school system has attorneys...filing a suit against the paper for running a story they knew was false and that they were notified beforehand was false, THAT would get some attention. No doubt the school's legal eagles are smarter than me when it comes to what legal actions can reasonably be done, but it's a thought.

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

I'm not sure exactly what the district is doing, but I do know they are attacking this story with everything they have. The thing is that the superintendent actually talked with the reserachers and they agreed that the data is inaccurate in this case. I have no doubt their data was false for a lot of other schools too.

Tish Davidson · Nov 1, 2007

If the "study" was published in a professional journal, your district should write the journal a letter of rebuttal stating the facts you have given. It is important that the professional peers of the people who did this study know that the research is seriously flawed, so that they don't use it.

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

good point Tish - I hadn't thought of that. All I know is that the article appeared in newspapers around the country.

here's the original article: http://www.idahostatesman.com/aptopstories/story/196286.html

this is what the paper reported today: http://www.idahostatesman.com/localnews/story/197733.html

edited to add that there are three schools in Idaho labeled as "drop-out factories" - one of htem is a medical charter school, which consistently ranks as having the highest ISAT scores and SAT scores in the state!! The only reason kids leave that school is to go back to the "regular" high school because they can't handle the demands.

Tiger · Nov 1, 2007

Hawai`i schools got the same headlines--with the similar wording. What you allege jibes with the Aloha State as well.

"7 Oahu schools ‘dropout factories’

Study finds state is 11th in dropout schools, at least 40 percent of freshmen will fail before their senior year"

-Honolulu Star-Bulletin, 10/30/2007

This makes for a great headlines, but lousy reporting.

Have you ever worked with that person who always has to be first in letting everyone know the latest? You know, the guy whose 411s more or less leave his mouth as 141s? That's what this reminds me of.

Sure, they offered 'dropout factories' as a quote, but I think they could have at least read the study carefully before using the word, "fail." Apparently, 40% don't "fail." They just don't graduate from the schools they entered as freshmen. Do a large number of them drop out? Yes: but almost half do not.

But, hey: it's almost as much fun to beat up on the DOE as it is the President. Almost.

Tiger · Nov 1, 2007

Tish Davidson said:
If the "study" was published in a professional journal, your district should write the journal a letter of rebuttal stating the facts you have given. It is important that the professional peers of the people who did this study know that the research is seriously flawed, so that they don't use it.

An example of the kind of follow up done by a really on it school district:

http://www.cjonline.com/stories/110107/loc_213976179.shtml

"The majority of the no-shows weren't dropouts. Most ended up getting their high school education elsewhere or in some other way.

Of the 487 "new" freshmen in 2002 (excluding repeat freshmen), 145 transferred to other schools in the district, in the county or out of state.

Another 41 were still in school, having failed to meet all the graduation requirements in four years and planning to return the following year to finish.

Only 39 of the original 487 were true "dropouts," as the school district interprets the word. That is only 8 percent.

The AP study considered a school to be a "dropout factory" if more than 40 percent of a freshman class didn't graduate from the school they attended for four years."

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

I think a whole lot of districts are trying to fight this one. I just did a google search and came up with quite a few places where the numbers are really "off". It just seems like a place like John's Hopkins would have verified numbers before sending this load of BS out! I wonder what the true numbers of "drop-out factories" are. Out of the 1000+ schools this 'study' claimed were drop-out factories, I wonder how many truly are.

The other thing that blows me away in this one is that the state of Idaho REQUIRES schools to keep up with EVERY child and report EXACTLY where he/she is. We have very exact numbers on how many kids transferred, and where they transferred to, how many are being homeschooled, how many dropped out, etc... If they had just contacted the state department they could have gotten the accurate information. But they didn't want that, obviously.

Tiger · Nov 1, 2007

Ah yes. Let's all give them a round of applause for something so easily googled as "dropout factories." Then, let's do our best to give them the attention this bald faced sensationalism so richly deserves.

I see another headline: "Parents: the AP spins your kids to look like losers"

Shadow_Ferret · Nov 1, 2007

Yeah, our school system is trying to spin it so it doesn't sound so bad either, but everyone has known for decades our school system needs help and is a dropout factory.

Now we have the proof.

And they have the nerve to ask for a 16% tax increase!

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

I do understand that there are some schools that truly are drop-out factories. But the school I teach at is not one of them! We consistently run at about a 16 - 22% drop-out rate which is well above the norm. It seems to me that the fact that the school district built a new high school to alleviate overcrowdedness should NOT be to our detriment!!

Tish Davidson · Nov 1, 2007

After a little Googling, I came up with what I think a link to the original study on which this story was based

http://www.csos.jhu.edu/crespar/techReports/Report70.pdf

These are the authors

Robert Balfanz
[email protected]

Nettie Legters
[email protected]

Center for Social Organization of Schools
Johns Hopkins University
3003 N. Charles Street
Suite 200
Baltimore, MD 21218
410-516-8800

What is most interesting to me is that the Johns Hopkins media relations folks were pushing this story (along with several others) here
http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home04/aug04/backschl.html

It would be interesting to know if the popular press stories actually reflected what the authors said or if the information got distorted when it got passed through the Johns Hopkins pr people.

Summonere · Nov 1, 2007

Nothing useful to contribute, but I will add this...

nancy sv said:
Talk about irresponsible reporting! I can’t figure out how this one got through the channels – anyone care to take a guess?

From a Dilbert cartoon:

DOGBERT: I need three bitter and unsuccessful scientists and a hundred lazy journalists.

nancy sv said:
Please help me understand how something so erroneous and damaging could possibly be printed in newspapers around the nation.

If reporters spent all their time checking facts, they'd never get any work done.

(Just ask Dan Rather.)

nancy sv · Nov 1, 2007

Thanks Tish!! I'll send off a nasty email letting them know what I think of their methodology.

And summon - I think you're right - get a couple of nasty and lazy people and this is what happens!

benbradley · Nov 1, 2007

Summonere said:
From a Dilbert cartoon:

DOGBERT: I need three bitter and unsuccessful scientists and a hundred lazy journalists.

[SIZE=-1]Wow, inflation. It only took two scientists (and a hundred lazy journalists) back when Ponds and Fleishman announced cold fusion.
[/SIZE]

nancy sv · Nov 2, 2007

THEY TOOK US OFF THE LIST!!!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/200138.html

Tish Davidson · Nov 2, 2007

nancy sv said:
THEY TOOK US OFF THE LIST!!!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/200138.html

Congratulations. Just goes to show how statistics can lie.

zahra · Nov 2, 2007

nancy sv said:
THEY TOOK US OFF THE LIST!!!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/200138.html

You see what happens when you stand up for yourself?

:hooray:

Fantastic.

benbradley · Nov 2, 2007

Tish Davidson said:
Congratulations. Just goes to show how statistics can lie.

It goes to show how liars can abuse statistics. Recommended reading: "How to Lie with Statistics," Darrell Huff.

benbradley · Nov 2, 2007

nancy sv said:
THEY TOOK US OFF THE LIST!!!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/200138.html

from The Article At That Link said:
Taking Meridian High off the list was “the right thing to do,” said District Superintendent Linda Clark. “The study was flawed.”
Johns Hopkins also is looking at a small handful of other schools in similar situations.

Perhaps Johns Hopkins could look at the whole list, with a re-evaluation of the method used to determine dropouts. Actually that would involve scrapping the list and starting over. If I had to rely in any way on studies like this, I'd put these researchers on my personal "do not trust" list, and perhaps even John Hopkins itself on a "do not trust" list.

Nancy, congrats on everyone there making enough noise to get YOUR school off the list, but one can only wonder how many other schools are on that list undeservedly. The only way to know for sure would be to do a proper study. Geez, this is such a crock.

nancy sv · Nov 2, 2007

benbradley said:
Nancy, congrats on everyone there making enough noise to get YOUR school off the list, but one can only wonder how many other schools are on that list undeservedly. The only way to know for sure would be to do a proper study. Geez, this is such a crock.

Exactly. I wonder the same thing. I know for a fact that two out of the three schools listed in Idaho should not have been on the list. If the same ratio holds true for other states - that list is scary indeed!!

WittyandorIronic · Nov 3, 2007

Heya Nancy, as a proud graduate of an Idaho high school, Thanks!!

A little off topic, but oh well.
From your posts, it sounds like you might be in Eagle or Meridian. I graduated from Timberline High School in 2000, and have to say that after a few years out in the world (literally and figuratively, I was in the military for a bit) I have to say that I had a much more in depth education than many others. And a lot more choices. I took great electives (Latin and Japanese) and was surrounded by supportive staff.
Anyways, thanks for all your hard work! My little sister is currently in high school there, so keep up the good work,

And we had very few drop outs... even those that struggled were worked with until they could pass, even if it was in summer school.

nancy sv · Nov 3, 2007

Thanks Witty!! I am at Meridian High School - one of the three Idaho schools that were on the list.

Erroneous and damaging reporting - how??

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