I get that one has to be careful not to use too many adverbs, by why does there seem to be so much concern over them? What's wrong with a good adverb or two?
She fondly used adverbs...
- Thread starter jannawrites
- Start date
- Status
I believe the theory is that adverbs are "lazy writing". Instead of using strong verbs, setting a clear scene, and producing dialogue that stands alone, lazy writers rely on adverbs to do all those jobs for them.
I don't hate adverbs but I do see the point in trying to find a better way.
I don't hate adverbs but I do see the point in trying to find a better way.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Messages
- 8,745
- Reaction score
- 3,097
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
- Website
- www.adriennekress.com
Possibly also there's an element of telling and not showing about adverbs. To be honest though, I do like them and have to definitely curb my use of them.
In many ways, I think the current obsession with "no adverbs" is a fad -- or rather a "style". If you look at many of the great works of the past (Dickens, Twain, Fitzgerald, etc.) you'll find lots of adverbs. So it's not that great literature can't have them. It's just that it's not the modern style.
It's much the same with music. You could write great Big Band or Boogie-woogie music, but you wouldn't have much luck selling it to a Hip-hop music publisher.
So if you're interested in being published, it's something you have to do. As always, the "genius exception" applies, but if you're not a genius, you'd better keep it in mind.
It's much the same with music. You could write great Big Band or Boogie-woogie music, but you wouldn't have much luck selling it to a Hip-hop music publisher.
So if you're interested in being published, it's something you have to do. As always, the "genius exception" applies, but if you're not a genius, you'd better keep it in mind.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Messages
- 2,658
- Reaction score
- 1,317
- Location
- Florida
- Website
- thoughtsfromthecave.blogspot.com
I know I have an addiction to adverbs, cigarettes and cheesecake. It has been a process for me to curb my use of them. As stated above I do believe it is a fad that is in style at the moment. I personally don't mind reading a book filled with adverb description. Being here taught me that they are frowned upon so I felt I had no choice but to change my writing style a bit. I will never totally leave them out, but I'm trying to cut down on the amount I use. Good luck and I feel your pain. I always said I was born 50 years too late.
That makes quite a lot of sense, Caro. I'll have to look more closely at my WIP and see if this is the case for me.
Thanks, guys.
I think if your overall writing is strong enough, the use of the occasional adverb isn't going to take away from your story.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2007
- Messages
- 20,006
- Reaction score
- 5,353
My crit group shreds me for my adverbial addiction. BUT I CAN'T HELP IT. I want to know if it's 'said softly' or 'thought ironically' or 'walked dazedly'. *sigh*
Unfortunately, I find myself in the inglorious position of doing a 'search and find' option for every word ending in ly. Here's the gig: eight times out of ten, I find that I can remove the adverb and rewrite a sentence to convey what the adverb did in the first place. I'll never remove all my adverbs because I'm way too attached to them.
I think Roger hit the nail on the head, actually. This is a fad, a change in the way that writers are expected to write. Less adverbs, fewer passives, fewer commas--a streamlined, soundbyte-ready narrative is preferred. It's a shame. The beauties of our language are making way for a no-nonsense style that I, for one, find very difficult to accept.
But then again, I also like getting royalty checks. I've sent my adverbs to the guillotine. Final rewrite of Asphodel 2 (which I should finish today) will have almost 75% of all adverbs axed by the time I am through.
Unfortunately, I find myself in the inglorious position of doing a 'search and find' option for every word ending in ly. Here's the gig: eight times out of ten, I find that I can remove the adverb and rewrite a sentence to convey what the adverb did in the first place. I'll never remove all my adverbs because I'm way too attached to them.
I think Roger hit the nail on the head, actually. This is a fad, a change in the way that writers are expected to write. Less adverbs, fewer passives, fewer commas--a streamlined, soundbyte-ready narrative is preferred. It's a shame. The beauties of our language are making way for a no-nonsense style that I, for one, find very difficult to accept.
But then again, I also like getting royalty checks. I've sent my adverbs to the guillotine. Final rewrite of Asphodel 2 (which I should finish today) will have almost 75% of all adverbs axed by the time I am through.
I can't miss an opportunity to insert a shameless plug.
I've written several utility programs for MS Word, one of which is the Adverb Highlighter. It highlights words ending with "ly" with the exception of those words (which you specify) that aren't adverbs (like "only"). You can download it and the others for free at: http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/WritingHelp/TechTips.html
I totalLY agree with this. When I reread old classics, or when I read works like A Wrinkle in Time or Charlotte's Web to my daughters, I see adverbs aplenty. It pains me to kill them in my own writing (but I do it, because I want to be published)
Adverbs are far more acceptable, even today (see Harry Potter), in children's literature.
Dunno. Children's stories are told in styles that differ from adult novels in a variety of ways. Adverb use is just one of them. Maybe someone who writes for children will be along to answer that, but it's a good question.
Maybe the kiddies need things spelled out for them. Hell, maybe *I* need things spelled out for me.
Actually, I think it's because editors of children's/YA literature think kids need things spelled out for them. One of the oddities of children's literature is that you don't actually write for children. You write for editors who think they know what children want. Again, it comes down to the current fashion in children's literature.
ETA: I should add that I don't mean that the editors are wrong necessarily. They may very well be right about what kids want. My point is that you always need to keep in mind that your first audience for children's fiction are adults (editors, agents, librarians, and parents) before kids actually get to read it.
Last edited:
I'm not a big reader of children's literature anymore (not in the past 40 years or so...), but I'm hoping that even in children's books the adverbial use/abuse isn't as bad it was long ago. I'd like to think children have well-written writings to read. I'll have to re-read Charlotte's Web yet again to count the adverbs. I can see the Apple Computer version: "Some insanely great pig!"
The infamous example of adverb overuse are "Tom Swift and his..." books from which the "Tom Swifty" adverbial phrase/joke is named. Quoting an earlier post:
"Why do you think that is?" she asked, quizzically.
"I dropped my toothpaste," Tom said, Crestfallen.
This last one also serves as a warning that not all adverbs end in "ly."
Not sure what the state of the art is with English grammar recogniition, but it seems a good "grammar checker" could accurately identify and count adverbs in text, as well as the other parts of speech.
One of the first things I read about writing when I started doing some reading and research into "how to write" is to cut down on adverbs (and not neccesarily eliminate them all). Adverbs are like salt, they're more of a spice than a mainstay of the diet. A good novel could perhaps be written with NO adverbs, but
Ben, on a low-adverb diet.
Last edited:
I volunteered in a 6th grade classroom to lead literature circle groups. One of their tasks was to list all the words they didn't know. Most, if not all, were adverbs. So you can use adverbs for children but chances are they won't know what it means anyway. Some adverbs are hard to define to a child too.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2007
- Messages
- 5,730
- Reaction score
- 8,939
- Location
- still in the dungeon
- Website
- www.melaniehoo.com
I've also learned here that adverbs are evil-incarnate, but I haven't eliminated them completely. I'm writing first person and the MC talks with adverbs!
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2007
- Messages
- 1,445
- Reaction score
- 3,196
Oh! You're that Roger. I've been looking for this everywhere. Thanks for posting this
Maybe I'm missing something, but strictly speaking isn't "crestfallen" an adjective here, not an adverb? Serves the same purpose an adverb would, but it modifies "Tom" and not "said."
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 43,746
- Reaction score
- 8,654
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Website
- www.amazon.com
Adverbs themselves are not the problem -- after all, they are there for a purpose. The problem with OVERUSE of adverbs usually means a few things:
- lack of imagination. "He said angrily" is generic enough it doesn't need a lot of work. It forces the readers to imagine what "angrily" means instead of...
- show vs. tell: adverbs are mostly "tell" and summarization. "Angrily" for example, is just a summary -- it can mean anything from growling to screaming to sniping to spitting in someone's face to... but instead, we just say "angrily." All tell and no show.
- poor vocabulary/lazy writing: so instead of "dashed" you write "he ran quickly" and instead of "stroll" (or any other strong verbs) you write "he walked slowly." After a while, we'll read "tiredly." Strong verbs are always better.
- cliches: often adverbs lead to cliches. Because it's so easy to say "he said angrily" that can become a clutch phrase. Every time a character is angry, he "said angrily." The characters become cliched or cardboard because we start to use these generic adverbs to describe potentially complex emotions and actions.
I think the reason why children's book or even YA (Harry Potter, for example) use adverbs so much is that children lack the sophistication to process complex concepts or make associations and inferences. Subtexts, for example, are usually lost on them, and they don't have the attention span either. Long descriptions may just lose them completely. If you write "he said, gritting his teeth and clenching his fist," young readers might not get what you really mean -- perhaps they need you to spell it out that the character is angry, so they prefer "he said angrily." They can then supply their own definition of what "angry" means.
Last edited:
- Status