This is difficult. Trouble is, I think it should be.

Calla Lily · Oct 26, 2007

I'm at disaster #2 in the 3-disaster scheme of things. In my outline, it's simple:

1. PI MC lets client crash on her couch. He tries to seduce her, she says grow up, she locks her bedroom door, end of story.

2. 2 days later, MC's boss gets a set of manipulated photos that make it look like MC and client spent an X-rated night together.

3. MC tries to explain, boss doesn't believe her. Subtext is boss carries a teeny torch for MC and he's furious/crushed/disgusted.

4. Restrained sdult-style fight ensues--no throwing things, but some terms used that can't be taken back, if you know what I mean.

I like this disaster. It moves the story along quite well. Trouble is, it's frelling HARD to write! I've spent at least 4 hours on it and I have only 4 pages. They haven't even gotten to the (expected) irreparable words yet. But I'm nearly sniveling into my keyboard because MC is sounding like a glib liar (she definitely isn't) and boss is certain she's nothing like the woman he thought. Pedestal has crashed.

I care about these two people who are acting like first-class boneheads! I want to bash their heads together and tell them to THINK before they open their mouths again. I mean, 2 scenes from now, client will publicly humiliate MC, and client's fiancee (who also got a set of photos) will do the same. But it's this scene that will make MC look fondly at the full bottle of painkillers in the medicine chest.

Argh...

Okay, thanks for listening.

And BTW, anyone have their own going-through-a-box-of-kleenex stories? Companionship would be a good thing right now.

Little Red Barn · Oct 26, 2007

Ahkkkkkkk, what'd I say?

My mind's not with it!!!

hugs

Calla Lily · Oct 26, 2007

kimmi, I know you don't mean that the way it sounds!

[goes to wash mind out with soap...oh...can't till this scene is over]

PeeDee · Oct 26, 2007

When this happens, I find it's because the people have turned into...people and I don't necessarily have exact control over how they talk to each other and what happens in the scene.

Go with it. You might find yourself with something much better than expected. And then stew on your disaster and your story and figure out if it all still works, or if your story is organically going somewhere else now.

DeleyanLee · Oct 26, 2007

Usually when this happens to me, it's because I'm not being honest with the conflict or the characters or both. Usually both.

I'm trying to write what I think SHOULD be there and not what honestly would be there if I really delved in and hit the heart of it all.

Those kinds of scenes are the joy and despair of my writing--getting down to the honest, real emotion and then finding a way to put them on the page. I'd rather give birth to a 53 lb baby any day, it's just as painful to go through--but I can't imagine a better writerly feeling of satisfaction and pride than when I got it right.

Don't know if that's your problem, but it might be something you can look at.

Good luck.

wayndom · Oct 26, 2007

Your situation brings to mind the advice of Sol Stein: To make engaging dialogue, make sure the two people talking want different (and if possible) mutually-exclusive things from the conversation.

F'rexample, in a parent-teacher confab, the teacher wants to know why the student is unruly, while the parent is only concerned that her precious goes to the ivy-league college of her choice. So they end up talking past each other, instead of with each other (the danger of characters talking with each other is that they'll agree, which entertains no one).

If you determine the MC's and MC's boss's cross-purposes beforehand, it might make their argument easier to write.

Doodlebug · Oct 26, 2007

I'm definitely a non-outline kind of person, so take this advice for what its worth...

It sounds like you have the plot wrapped up tight. Maybe too tight! What about just free writing for a while and seeing where it takes you. Give your characters a little breathing room, and try to see where it goes.

But, like I said, it might not work for you.

Chasing the Horizon · Oct 26, 2007

I'm a very detailed outliner, but sometimes my characters decide to make my outline worth less than the hard drive memory it's stored on. Arguments seem to be their favorite place to do this too. I had this great argument in the outline for my second novel, then when I went to write it my hero said 'all right, love' and dropped the issue. :rant:

I debated the issue with the characters for a while, but eventually they won and now the only argument in that chapter is between ME and the hero, lol. I know better than to force the characters into an interaction they say 'no' to, though. Are you maybe doing the same thing? And is the argument unfolding in this way really as critical to the story as you think? Is there maybe another route which would feel more natural to your characters but end up in the place plot-wise?

Prawn · Oct 27, 2007

Don't write in order. Write the irreperable words first, then fill in the rest of the scene.

Doodlebug · Oct 27, 2007

Hope To The Horizon said:
I know better than to force the characters into an interaction they say 'no' to, though.

Maybe it's because I was raised as a Calvinist, but I don't believe the concept of 'free will' only applies to us in the here and now. I'm firmly convinced that our characters have free will as well and are not at all shy about using it! :Sun:

jenstrikesagain · Oct 27, 2007

Stuckage

Hi,
When I'm stuck in any scene it's either because A. I'm doing it wrong (many subcategories possible here; wrong point of view? Wrong setup? Wrong tone? Wrong mentality?) or B. I'm doing it too soon (again many subcategories, ranging from "It's not time yet in the story" to "It's not time yet for myself personally because I haven't dealt with whatever it is.") So, yeah, it should be difficult. When it is, it's worth doing. And it's also worth working on some other part for a while, skipping around, and coming back to it later. Not a linear person, me.

Pike · Oct 28, 2007

Hey, Lily. Saw this and hope that I can throw in some help before you throw in the towel.

When I get into a dialogue-tight run, I tend to play it out in my head first. I try to "hear" the conversation/ arguement, so it feels right. Now with these two boneheads, how does your MC feel about her boss? Doea she see him as a brother? Great friend? Never considered him intimately? Is there a hint of attraction that she's shielded from him, trying to keep the job business as usual and now she's hurt because he should be the last person on Earth to think she'd stoop so low?

Also, the ebb and flow of the dialogue is important. At first, is she defensive or does she blow off the photos as pure garbage? Is he silent, biting his tongue as he tries not to say something he'll regret? Then, when one of them finally says that black remark that stings worse then a open-hand whack across the face, all bets are off.

That's how I approach it. Hope all of the advice sets your fingers on fire.

Pike

Calla Lily · Oct 28, 2007

Thanks, Pike darlin' and all who responded.

I have to burn my "I are a wryter" card now, because my original post seems to have conveyed the opposite of what's happening. :headdesk:

The scene was difficult (it's written now) because I suddenly became both characters, and it was like I was having a real screaming-crying-say the stuff you can't take back fight with my husband, or with my best friend. It hurt. That's why I needed Kleenex.

Doodlebug, you might have hit it when you suggested I might be plotting too tightly. One part of the scene is alraedy toast, from a logic standpoint, and another's already changed becaus of how both these characters are interacting with a third, who's cute and bubbly and changing the dynamics every time she pokes her head in.

I took last night off, and now ideas are flowing again. Whee!

Thanks again, all.

This is difficult. Trouble is, I think it should be.

Calla Lily

On hiatus

Little Red Barn

haz own threads

Calla Lily

On hiatus

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

DeleyanLee

Writing Anarchist

wayndom

Doodlebug

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite

Doodlebug

jenstrikesagain

Pike

Chivalry ain't dead

Calla Lily

On hiatus