Help an unpublished writer out

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JohnDavidPaxton

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So having done everything in my power to get a novel published, and not being a fan of waiting to see how that goes, I want to further my chances and build a resume. I've read in many places that have a published short fiction dossier can improve your chances and I imagine there is no way it can hurt.

I've started writing short stories meant for publication. Good enough or not, I want to try my hand at getting them published. Unfortunately the interwebz doesn't seem to have a wealth of information on how to proceed with short fiction like it does novels and I could use a little help.

I have Duotrope and I think it's a great resource, but if anyone could link me to a step by step guide that they would recommend, or tell me from personal experience what to expect, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm a novice, I've got nothing but will and passion, and I am eager to soak up all that your experience to further my goal of world domination.

Thank you again for reaching down through the hopeless pit to me.
 

joetrain

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good luck. i'm in a similar boat (and looking forward to the posts). once hopelessly submitting my novel for months, i began writing short stories. i've got a handful now, and have been trying to sell them to magazines and journals. so far i've only been attempting large, popular publications, with no results. it recently occurred to me that i should try building a resume with smaller pubs and literary journals before i take more shots from the likes of the oxford american and zoetrope. (i just started implementing this strategy; i'll let you know how it goes.)

to those with experience: is it a better use of postage to keep knocking on the big publications' doors or to try getting the first few stories sold to small journals and magazines?
 
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johnnysannie

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Know your markets; that means read the publications you want to submit to and see if your work seems like a good fit or not. Finding the right markets is a major part of a writers' job and it takes time.

Duotrop is a start. So is Writer's Market (the 2008 edition should be out) or the Fiction Writers Market (I think the actual name is Novel & Short Story Writers' Market).

Read, read, read the journals.

I am a firm believer in being paid for my work but it's up to you if you want to submit to markets that pay $20 or $200 or $2,000. There is nothing wrong with trying the bigger pubs - some will say different - but if you think your work is a possible fit, go for it.
 

AggieCowboy

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If you haven't done so, join a critic group. There are several critique groups online which have forums to post kudos for members who sell stories. You find journals, mags, e-zines, etc. that match your genre. The crit groups are also great to help you hone your skills.

Also, enter your work into some writing competitions. Writer's Digest is a good place to start. And check out editors and preditors for help in spotting the scams. A lot of competitions have a nominal reading fee ($5-25), but a number are free. There's a lot of online resources to help you decide which contests are worth your while. Many competitions are judged by editors or agents, so even if you don't win, you may still get some interest. Also, you can often get feedback and crits. Southwest Writers has an annual competition in which all entries are critiqued by professionals, so the $35 reading fee (or whatever it is) is well worth it.

Word of warning: Critiquers have a way of kicking you in the nether regions when you least expect it. Don't let this discourage you. You don't have to take their suggestions, but do take them into consideration in your rewrites.

I ditto Johnnysannie comments.

Good Luck!
 

RickN

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1 - Read the type of stories you write. I'm amazed when I talk to people who write mysteries but don't read them, for example. They tend to write cliche-ridden stories because they don't know what the cliches are. Oh, the killer has an identical twin -- that's why he had the perfect alibi; oh, the killer is a tranvestite -- that's why nobody suspected the male characters, etc, etc.

2 - Know your market. This is hugely important, so subscribe to magazines, order sample issues, read the webpages -- whatever works for the markets you're looking at. From personal experience -- just because a mag says it'll accept 12,000 word stories (and it does - 2 a year) it may actually prefer 3,000 worders (10 a month). You can guess where I aimed my story size once I checked out the magazine. :)

3 - Write the best story you can, the one you know is perfect and ready to go out the door -- and then send it to your critiquers. I use some friends and the review boards at writing.com to get feedback. Slap on your thick-skin suit and remember that it's not personal: they think your writing sucks, not you. (it's a joke! just kidding!)

Good luck.
 

RickN

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to those with experience: is it a better use of postage to keep knocking on the big publications' doors or to try getting the first few stories sold to small journals and magazines?

I always start a story with a paying market. For example, I may start a mystery with Alfred Hitchcock's and Ellery Queen's. If it sells -- great! if not, I drop it into the second tier of magazines that still pay a nominal amount. After that, I'll go with other magazines that don't pay -- I prefer print to webpage publication. Lastly, I hit the websites.

I never write a story thinking I'm going to give it away/target a small market unless I'm doing a theme-placement in a specific magazine that struck my fancy.
 

Will Lavender

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I'll echo what others have said: read the journals you're submitting to. I've spoken to many short fiction editors, and it seems that their biggest pet peeve is that writers send them work only to get published. The writers often don't care if the stories they're sending actually fit in those particular journals.

Go to your local independent bookstore, check out a few journals/magazines, write down their addresses, and let them know in your cover letter that you actually have read their publication. You could even mention a particular story you read that caught your attention. There has to be a reason you're submitting to that journal, and it can't just be because it would be a resume-builder to get in.
 

Tymolee

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I'll second (third? Fourth? Fifteenth?) the sentiment: know your market.

Duotrope, Writer's Digest, Ralan, etc., are all good places to find potential markets. I like the idea of reading what's in specific magazines, but it's not always feasible (there's not a lot of the smaller magazines at bookstores anymore, and it's not really cost effective to order a sample of every magazine you're looking to get published in). Of course, web publications (and print mags) sometimes put teasers or samples on their websites, which are always helpful.

I look up potential markets and I always, always check out their websites. Like I said, sample stories or even full issues can be available. Their guidelines are generally more informative then the small market listing available in duotrope. And occasionally their editors might blog or include other things in the website that you might might not see elsewhere. For instance, one of the magazines I just subbed to takes horror up to 5k words... but in the editor's blog, they mentioned that they were looking specifically for flash horror up to 1k... which I happened to have a story for. I haven't heard back from them yet, but I figure I might have a better than average chance, right?


And what everyone else said, too - read, read, read. Get critiques. Keep writing. One thing I tend to do is shelve my short fiction and reread it about a month later so I can read it with fresh eyes and promptly go "crud! That's terrible!" and rework it. But that's just me.

Good luck!!!
 

mikeland

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I strongly agree with the others about knowing your market, and particularly with Tymolee about checking the websites.

That said, based on posts here and other threads throughout AW, it does seem that it is a murkier proposition to know your market when you are writing so-called "literary" short stories as opposed to genre.

I've got a list of about 100 lit mags that are very difficult to tell apart in terms of content (though they would scream bloody murder to be characterized that way). A lot of them are supported by universities and have a frequently changing editorial staff. For all of them, it boils down to understanding the personal tastes and stylistic preferences of one or two people (a first reader and a fiction editor). This can be done to some extent by reading recent issues and the website, and by googling the names of the editors (since they do sometimes get interviewed by blogs). But I do believe that every submission is a bit of a crap shoot in this market.

To help understand the litmag market, I would suggest picking up recent "best of" anthologies, such as Best American Short Stories, O. Henry awards and Pushcart prizes. These give you an idea of what the top litmags publish and they all have lists of magazines that submit stories, usually complete with editor names and web addresses.

Also, check out newpages.com. They review literary magazines. It is helpful to get the take of people who clearly spend a lot of time reading the various publications.

Hope this helps. I've had a half dozen stories pulled out of the slush pile this past year and put in print, but each of those stories was also rejected 10-20 times at very similar litmags. Like I said, a bit of a crap shoot.
 

Summonere

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Step-by-step guide from a lazy and shiftless short story dilettante.

1. Write short stories because you really, really...
a) like reading them
b) like writing them.

2. Send those stories to magazines that you think will buy them because,
a) you've been reading those magazines all along because of 1.a above, which means that
b) you know inside and out what kind of fiction that they want, which is slightly different from what they say they want.

But what does that mean, the latter part of 2.b, up there? Something like this:

As RickN noted above, a magazine that says it publishes up to 25,000-word stories really does, but only once in a while (I know because Gordon van Gelder and Stanley Schmidt told me so, and I reckon they twern't jes whisslin' Dixie) . Better to concentrate in the lower to middle ranges than at the heights of extremity.

Also, even though lots of magazines say they publish science fiction, or horror, or fantasy, it's a sure thing that the kind of horror published by Ann VanderMeer over at Weird Tales is a lot different than that published by Andy Cox over at Black Static, and these are the kinds of differences that mere perusal of guidelines will not detect. Whereas WT can be "In yo face!" with its weirdness and horror, BS tends to take a more sedate and literary tone. Or at least it used to, back when it was called The Third Alternative. (Then again, all may depend upon what one considers sedate.)

That's pretty much all I've done, and I've sold some of my literary trifles. So if I'm shiftless and lazy and untalented, seems to me that lots of other people can sell their work, too. What's more, by golly, they should. The world needs more good entertainment.
 

jchines

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Familiarity with the market is a very good thing.

Personally, I would aim for the top. If you start at the bottom, how do you know you couldn't have sold the same story to a better market? Also, if you're hoping to build credibility and a reputation, most* non-paying or smaller markets aren't going to do much for you in that regard.

---
*There are exceptions, of course. But you have to know the markets to know what they are :)
 

Inky

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1. Write short stories because you really, really...
a) like reading them
b) like writing them.

I have to totally back this statement up with a huge 'amen'!
I tried writing short stories, both for Writer's Digest competitions AND (uh hem) to build a resume.:tongue
I discovered many things about myself.
1) Being that I'm 'chatty cathy', it is impossible for my brain to think/write in brief style.
2) All of my short stories end up becoming novellas. It doesn't matter how much I slice and dice...THAT only leads to MORE ideas that find their way IN the story. Kinda defeats the purpose.
3) I usually don't really care for short stories; hence, how can I possibly create one?
4) I am parrot-poop green with envy towards people who successfully write short stories. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TALENT/DICIPLINE IT TAKES TO ACCOMPLISH THIS DAUNTING TASK?

I read somewhere that lawyers are usually very good at this because they write thousands of briefs, so they've got that 'just the facts ma'am' thing down pat...military too.​

If you love reading short stories, you stand a better chance of understanding the market, succeeding because you're 'writing what you know', and have a grasp on how to write tight.

People like me, simply thinking to build a resume, stand a better chance of using this writing style as a means of practicing writing tight, but need to save ourselves the embarrassment of actually submitting the junk.;)
 

Jinksy

I've got a list of about 100 lit mags that are very difficult to tell apart in terms of content (though they would scream bloody murder to be characterized that way). A lot of them are supported by universities and have a frequently changing editorial staff. For all of them, it boils down to understanding the personal tastes and stylistic preferences of one or two people (a first reader and a fiction editor). This can be done to some extent by reading recent issues and the website, and by googling the names of the editors (since they do sometimes get interviewed by blogs). But I do believe that every submission is a bit of a crap shoot in this market.

I volunteered at this lit mag as a first reader (screams bloody murder), and from that experience alone, I'd contradict some of the things people have said here. For one thing, I'm pretty sure no-one there cared about the genre of submissions. In fact, I'm halfway through writing a spec-fic piece for them now.

The thing was, although we received the occasional piece of (for eg) sci-fi, it was generally awful. That's not really surprising - of the 100 or so pieces I looked at while I was there, I could only put forward two for publication (and then reservedly). So given that about 4 or 5 were sci-fi, that doesn't give much info about your odds.

The main thing to keep in mind with literary mags is probably the different focus on what they look for in a story - Isaac Asimov (whose short fiction I adore) might never have gotten so much as a mention, because his writing style is relatively bland. Ideas aren't completely discarded, but the only piece I'm aware of having gotten in on the strength of my recommendation revolved around a rape, which I'll be the first to admit is a trite subject in the short fiction genre.

So in other words, a lit mag might accept a sci-fi story that a sci-fi mag would snub and vice versa. The editor of the mag I worked at was seriously contemplating a sci-fi themed issue at one stage, but he decided against it primarily (I think) because of the difficulty of finding people who know enough science to write even vaguely convincing SF who can write their own name without resorting to cliche.

Also (and this is just my own preference, which I can't generalise), in such an environment I didn't give a monkey's whether the writer had read, or could prove she had read the magazine. My favourite cover letter ever was (I hope coincidentally) the one from the rape piece. It's entire content was something like 'I'm a student at [bla]. In my spare time I like to write.'

So (still my own preference), the worst thing you could do in a cover letter was make it extensive - before you persuade me otherwise, I'm going into your story with an open mind. All the letter does is give me a chance to dislike you first. And call me impatient, but I know where I'm working, so I don't need you to restate the mag's ethos. I'm also evaluating the story you've sent me, so I don't need cajoling with a long list of your professional writing degrees, publications in other mags or comments that friends have made.

One thing about smaller mags in general: since you're competing against fewer authors, not only is your story statistically more likely to get published, but you're also more likely to receive feedback on it.

Oh, and more important than targeting your subject matter (IMO) is targeting your prestige. The mag I worked at specifically (albeit not exclusively) seeks out writing from new authors, although looking at their 'about us' page, they're somewhat cryptic about it. Still, if a mag is boasting exclusively about big names who're writing for them at the moment, that's probably a good reason not to waste your time submitting.

And lastly, don't be afraid to look abroad. No-one cares where you're from, as long as you can use the lingo.
 
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Susan Breen

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I like to go to www.newpages.com and look through their listing of literary magazines. I also like to read the classifieds in the back of P&W. I feel like if a magazine is actually looking for submissions they are more likely to look at me.
 

mikeland

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Thanks, jinksy. Always useful to hear from someone in the trenches.
 

J. R. Tomlin

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I always start a story with a paying market. For example, I may start a mystery with Alfred Hitchcock's and Ellery Queen's. If it sells -- great! if not, I drop it into the second tier of magazines that still pay a nominal amount. After that, I'll go with other magazines that don't pay -- I prefer print to webpage publication. Lastly, I hit the websites.

I never write a story thinking I'm going to give it away/target a small market unless I'm doing a theme-placement in a specific magazine that struck my fancy.
I had to comment on the "lastly, I hit the websites" comment. For some genre (I certainly won't speak for all) this is wrongheaded.

I'm a SF/F writer, and in that genre I can speak with some confidence. Some of the best publications are online pubs. Strange Horizons and OSC's Intergalactic Medicine Show immediately come to mind. Good online pubs DO pay and are recognized as writing credits.

While knowing your market is a good idea, some of the posts seem to say that you have to spent your entire life doing nothing but devouring short story magazines if you want to get published. I disagree. You simply can't read all the magazines out there. Do read short stories in the genre you're writing and try to hit as many magazines as you can to find the ones that match what you write (or the other way around).

I think (disclaimer: personal opinion) it's a good idea to get a bit of a resume going with a few sales to some of the "token" paying second-tier markets. But I do agree that non-paying markets probably aren't worth bothering with.
 

blackpen

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I am no expert on this, but I was with a university literary magazine for a bit and maybe I can provide some very broad and very general advice. I've noticed that there are certain kinds of short stories that always get rejected by an overwhelming majority.

a. the kind of plot in which the author is obviously projecting his or her personal romantic fantasy (we got a LOT of stories in which the female main character gets proposed to in the end, regardless of its relevance to the actual story.)

b. the kind of plot that reminds the reader of an established story line (we got one that seemed a lot like "When Stella Got Her Groove Back" and one that resembled "Signs," but in a rural and 19th century setting.

c. stories with a lot of graphic sex, violence, or profanity.

That's just the general idea I got, hope it helps. I'm in a similar position as you, only I don't have anything decent finished up. lol. Good luck.
 

RickN

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I had to comment on the "lastly, I hit the websites" comment. For some genre (I certainly won't speak for all) this is wrongheaded.

I'm a SF/F writer, and in that genre I can speak with some confidence. Some of the best publications are online pubs. Strange Horizons and OSC's Intergalactic Medicine Show immediately come to mind. Good online pubs DO pay and are recognized as writing credits.

You may be right, I don't know. I did point out that I was dealing with the mystery genre. So, while there may be excellent Sci-fi websites that pay decently, I'm not aware of similar ones for mysteries. I am always willing to be educated if anyone knows of some -- submitting to websites is cheaper and easier than mailing out manuscripts.
 

pdr

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Yes, but...

if you sell online first then you can't sell any where else except as reprints. Whereas if you sell print rights to several different countries first, your story earns its keep.
 

Marlys

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One feature I like about online journals is that many of them archive past stories, so I can link them on my website and send readers to check them out if they missed the issue it was pubbed in. But I'm primarily a novelist--I just write shorts to blow off steam and get a little more exposure, so keeping the story up somewhere instead of trying to sell reprint rights doesn't bother me (although I should note that most--possibly all--of the online venues will remove a story from their archives if you ask them to).
 

J. R. Tomlin

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You may be right, I don't know. I did point out that I was dealing with the mystery genre. So, while there may be excellent Sci-fi websites that pay decently, I'm not aware of similar ones for mysteries. I am always willing to be educated if anyone knows of some -- submitting to websites is cheaper and easier than mailing out manuscripts.
I won't even try to address someone else's genre. I know my own because I've made it my business to know it. In SF/F shorts from some online pubs are regularly nominated for Nebulas (big time award for those of you non-SF/F types :) ) and recognized as a credit for SFWA membership.

You may be correct about other genre and I did mention that I was speaking of my own. What you have to do, of course, is do the research to find out.

Now if I were just better at writting blinking short stories. *goes away mumbling*
 
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