[Script analyst] Literary & Screenplay Consultants / scriptzone.com

[JustinoIV]

I had snail mailed Mr. Miller my query letter. I had gotten his address off of the Writers Guild Website at www.wga.org (http://www.wga.org). As soon as he received my query, he sent back a polite no thank you referring me to Paul Young, a literary consultant/script analyst, at www.scriptzone.com (http://www.scriptzone.com). I called the WGA, and they do not look kindly up any agent on their list trying to pull this kind of stunt. They asked me to forward them the email he sent, and I did.

[ifelldownandicantgetup]

I got an email from Stu Miller leading me to the same guy's "services".

I knew right away that it wasn't for real and I haven't bothered to respond.

That was last week.

[bentbrains]

Well,
You need to be careful in life but this Stuart didn't have a gun to your head, he was just pointing you in someone's direction trying to make a buck. Yes, a scam, but you weren't forced to do it, why are you ratting the guy out? is it that your feeleings were hurt because he didn't like your work?

[Betty W01]

ummm, excuse me, bent, but that's what this board is for - ratting people out :lol

scams need to be revealed for what they are, to make room for legitimate businesspeople to make a living and save newbies from their clutches. Hence, the Beware Board.

[sunrisepro]

Just read all comments on Stuart Miller. I sent him a query letter by mail. Received an e-mail requesting a three page synopsis of my screenplay, which I e-mailed to him. Received the same as everyone else: "Thanks, but this isn't for me. Best of luck in finding the right agency representation. Meantime, I think you should check out the website of Literary and Screenplay Consultants at <www,scriptzone.com>. Paul Young is a first-rate literary consultant who might help you in your further efforts in the Hollywood film/tv market. Cordially, Stu Miller"

He also gave me a couple of opinions that were relevant. He sounded legitimate. However, I went to the site he suggested and found Paul Young's site is just another profiteer charging for reader services, coverage services, etc. I used to be a reader in Hollywood. I know that a screenwriter's agent, if reputable, should not be referring to these guys. It's a scam, and Miller probably gets a kickback from Young. Best thing to do--stay away!

;)

[Stuart M. Miller]

I've just read all the posts on this thread which support the erroneous notion that I am a "fradulent" (sic) agent and that there is something wrong with suggesting that writers who contact me check out Paul Young's website to determine for themselves if his services are of interest to them.

First, let me point out that I have been a successful agent in Hollywood and New York for more than 40 years and have both a solid resume and excellent reputation among my peers and colleagues.

Second, I receive, via email, snailmail, fax and telephone more than 3500 unsolicited queries annually, nearly all of which come from writers who have few or no professional credits. I respond promptly and politely to all of those that provide me with a return email address, a SASE or a dedicated fax number, but I do not respond to telephone numbers.

Third, many of these queries are, to be kind, unprofessional, and often display such a poor use of the English language as to offer no realistic expectation that the writer is capable of executing a marketable literary product. Those, I simply reject with a "Thanks, but I'm not the right agent for your" response. However, sometimes I read a query which suggests that the material has potential but, in my opinion, is not articulated well enough to be marketable, or is in need of sharpening or polishing before it might be ready for submission. In those cases, I direct the writer to Mr. Young's website.

Fourth, why Mr. Young? Because I've known him for many years, have successfully represented his own literary material from time to time and, most important, have seen the quality of his analysis and suggestions for improvement of other writers' work. There are countless other literary consultants out there in the world; he happens to be one I can recommend without reservation. I feel I'm providing a service to the writers whom I direct to his site, and many of them have thanked me sincerely for it. Obviously, each writer makes up his or her own mind about whether to employ Mr. Young. I do not participate in that decision, and I DO NOT RECEIVE ANY COMPENSATION FOR THESE RECOMMENDATIONS!

Fifth, I've been a signatory to the WGA Agency regulations, and licensed by the Labor Commissioner of California, for many years; I've represented some of the most successful and honored writers in the entertainment business, including multiple Oscar, Emmy, Tony, WGA and CableAce award winners and authors of milliion-plus selling books. My credentials are impeccable and easily checkable. Needless to say, I don't appreciate being trashed by the people who have attacked me on this thread, whose ignorance and unconcern of the facts about who I am are both self-evident and self-serving.

[Betty W01]

Fair enough. A question then: What does the WGA think about you recommending such a service (no matter how much you respect or like Mr. Young), since such a recommendation certainly appears to be in defiance of this paragraph on WGA's "Find an Agent" page?

http://www.wga.org/ (WGA menu bar, then to "Becoming a member, then to "Find an agent")


WGAw "No Fees" Policy: Guild policy prohibits an agency from appearing on this list if it charges reading fees or similar fees as a condition to read literary material. Such literary material includes but is not limited to screenplays, teleplays, telescripts, stories, treatments, bibles, formats, plot outlines, breakdowns, sketches, narration, non-commercial openings and closings, long form story projections and/or pilots--including all rewrites and polishes thereto. Please contact the Guild at (323) 782-4502 if you find that any of the listed agencies charge reading fees or similar fees for this type of literary material. The WGAw "No Fees" policy also applies to agencies that refer writers to entities which charge reading fees or similar fees. NOTE: Some agencies on this list charge reading fees or similar fees for other forms of literary material (e.g., novels or plays).


Note that I am not saying you are scamming people, I am just asking you to specifically defend this particular action on your part.

(And by the way, I would not have waded into this again except that I received an e-mail to my business e-mail account from Mr. Miller this morning asking me to check this thread out, although I'm not sure how he got it. So, here I am...)

[Stuart M. Miller]

Betty: I think you'll find that the intention of the WGA's "No Fees" policy is to discourage agencies from charging writers a fee simply to read and consider their work for representation. Neither I nor Mr. Young are engaged in that practice. I charge only Guild-regulated commissions when I perform agency services for WGA members and Mr. Young does not charge a so-called "reading fee"; he provides a detailed review, analysis and advice for a fee, and he only does so if the writer elects to employ his services with full advance knowledge of how he works and what the writer can expect from him.

As to what the WGA thinks of this, I can only tell you that, notwithstanding the apparent complaint issued by at least one of the writers on this thread, the Guild has never contacted me on this subject, nor do I think it likely that they will. Obviously, there are some disgruntled, unrepresented writers out in the world who have their own agendas, but I'm not scamming anyone and I'm not breaking any WGA rules.

FYI, I got your email address by following the appropriate links on this site. smm
*******************************

Fair enough. A question then: What does the WGA think about you recommending such a service (no matter how much you respect or like Mr. Young), since such a recommendation certainly appears to be in defiance of this paragraph on WGA's "Find an Agent" page?

http://www.wga.org/ (WGA menu bar, then to "Becoming a member, then to "Find an agent")


WGAw "No Fees" Policy: Guild policy prohibits an agency from appearing on this list if it charges reading fees or similar fees as a condition to read literary material. Such literary material includes but is not limited to screenplays, teleplays, telescripts, stories, treatments, bibles, formats, plot outlines, breakdowns, sketches, narration, non-commercial openings and closings, long form story projections and/or pilots--including all rewrites and polishes thereto. Please contact the Guild at (323) 782-4502 if you find that any of the listed agencies charge reading fees or similar fees for this type of literary material. The WGAw "No Fees" policy also applies to agencies that refer writers to entities which charge reading fees or similar fees. NOTE: Some agencies on this list charge reading fees or similar fees for other forms of literary material (e.g., novels or plays).


Note that I am not saying you are scamming people, I am just asking you to specifically defend this particular action on your part.

(And by the way, I would not have waded into this again except that I received an e-mail to my business e-mail account from Mr. Miller this morning asking me to check this thread out, although I'm not sure how he got it. So, here I am...)

[Jaws]

I've spotted some miscommunications in this thread. Note that I'm not defending Mr. Miller, or attacking him, or anything else; I'm just trying to ensure that criticisms made are within the boundaries for those criticisms.

The WGA provides no protection at all for prose writers. End of discussion. Its brief is limited to dramatic properties—for stage at WGA(e), for film and TV at WGA(w). It is (sadly) far from uncommon for WGA-signatory agents to charge reading fees, etc. for prose works. I believe it an inescapable conflict of interest and poor practice; but it is neither illegal nor fraudulent per se.

It appears to me, though, that some of the writers who have contributed to this thread may be assuming that their prose is somehow subject to WGA rules that explicitly restrict themselves to dramatic properties.

<:Soapbox:> Finally, a note to all of the agents out there who might be grumbling about this general response: It is completely inappropriate, however customary and perhaps even within the letter of the rules, to refer a writer to a single outside consultant, particularly if the agent is aware that the consultant charges for that fee, unless the referral is done on a "such as" basis ("You may wish to consult an experienced script consultant. I have sent writers to X with good results in the past, but of course no result can be guaranteed, and there are other experienced script consultants, too."). Note that even if the agent doesn't receive a monetary kickback for a referral, cross-referrals of business may constitute "compensation" that might rightly draw the attention of a nasty ol' lawyer like me. This is a constant bone of contention between lawyers who actually practice publishing law and agents who all too often engage in the practice of law: The agents should be bound by the attorney's ethics rules relevant to this kind of transaction, not their own wishy-washy nonsense. (Of course, that might be as much because agents are not professionals—that is, they are not licensed and regulated—as anything else.)</:Soapbox:>

So, if you'd really like to meet me, go ahead. Continue making referrals to paid writing consultants. Then cue the cellos.

PS I have no personal or professional experience with Mr. Miller or his agency. I do have indirect professional experience with Mr. Young, but only peripherally as a background fact of no legal significance in a client's circumstances.

[Stuart M. Miller]

Thanks for the tip, Jaws. (An excellent screenname for an attorney, btw.)
I like your "such as" suggestion and will incorporate it in future communications to those writers to whom I may make future referrals.

I'm fully aware of what form of material the WGA, east and west, protects in its Basic Agreement, even if the writers on this thread, or elsewhere, are not.

While your opinion of what is or is not "completely inappropriate" is just that, your opinion, you are factually incorrect in your remark that "agents are not professionals—that is, they are not licensed and regulated". While there may be sound reasons to conclude that a particular agent is unprofessional, in the state of California, ALL agents are required to be licensed and regulated by the Labor Commissioner, as well as to adhere to the rules and regulations governing agents of the guilds to which their various clients belong.

As for your amusing (and musical) threat about meeting you, I guess we'll just have to see how that operetta plays out. Cellos at 20 paces...?

[JustinoXXV]

The Sales Archive shows no sales closed by Stuart Miller, and google pulls up very little upon him, except that his agency isn't recommend by watchdog groups. Miller apparently has a poor reputation.

Honestly, queries will not make or break your career per say, and no one needs to see a literary consultant to learn how to write them. Their are tons of books on them, samples on the internet, and boards like these to recieve feedback. So I'm afraid Mr. Young at the least is taking advantage of gullible writers, and you, in referring them Miller, clearly don't have writers best interest.

So Miller, can you tell us who are your clients, and what sales you've closed? Any major agent pulls up a lot of references of various deals and clients through a google, or through a search on the sales archive on Done Deal.

[JustinoXXV]

Agencies are also licensed and regulated by the state of New York. The show business is concentrated in California and New York, therefore those states take it seriously and put in safe guards.

NYC and NY state government agencies lists as one of the oldest and most common scams of talent/literary agencies. That basically, they encourage people to come to them and then they refer them to some sort of outside paid service, whether editorial services, photography headshot services, etc.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/pr_112304.html

So basically, in the United States, stick to agents in New York and Los Angeles. Do your research. Check out to see if their licensed. And if they ask you for money or refer you to someone who wants you to write a check, RUN!

[JustinoXXV]

Evene if you do not receive monterary compensation from Mr. Young, (of course that remains to be seen, for all we know he could even be giving you cash for each referral you send to him that pays), he's apparently a friend of yours. That's a massive conflict of interest, right there.

[Jaws]

[Y]ou are factually incorrect in your remark that "agents are not professionals—that is, they are not licensed and regulated". While there may be sound reasons to conclude that a particular agent is unprofessional, in the state of California, ALL agents are required to be licensed and regulated by the Labor Commissioner, as well as to adhere to the rules and regulations governing agents of the guilds to which their various clients belong.

This is misleading at best, Mr. Miller. As should have been clear from the context, I meant that literary agents never are licensed and regulated by the state. California registers, but essentially does not regulate, screen/TV agents whose offices are within the state of California. New York optionally registers, but does not regulate, dramatic agents whose offices are within the state of New York (contrary to popular belief, the New York scheme is essentially voluntary). For that matter, "talent agents" must register with Tennessee, California, and New York, although that registration hardly constitutes a "license." What is important to note here is that the various state schemes extend only to the kind of activity in question; for example, California does not require licensing of literary agents, or poke its nose into any agenting activity by a licensed screenwriting agent that does not concern a screenplay. In other words, a California screenwriting agent can be as crooked and rapacious as he/she wishes on book submissions and not run afoul of California law (except as it would apply to anybody who holds money for anybody else). That is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "licensing" scheme.

"Profession" is a term of art. It does not mean "gets paid for," nor does it mean "acts like a competent businessperson." It means that the person in question meets certain entry requirements, almost always including an educational component; must be licensed to perform that activity; can be kicked out of the profession for misconduct; and must meet those standards of conduct in virtually all aspects of his/her life, even those not directly related to the "profession" in question. There is a big difference between being professional and acting professional; I'm afraid that your objection at most goes only to the latter, which is not what I was discussing.

[Julie Worth]

This thread hasn’t established anything negative about Mr. Miller that I can see (except maybe he didn’t use the right weasel words), so why does “Fradulent Agent” in the heading persist? It’s just going to show up in the search engines that way, giving the wrong impression about Mr. Miller....and the perhaps correct impression of some of us at the water cooler.

Added: I see that P&E very recently gave him a “not recommended” label, and I’m wondering why.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

This thread hasn’t established anything negative about Mr. Miller that I can see (except maybe he didn’t use the right weasel words), so why does “Fradulent Agent” in the heading persist? It’s just going to show up in the search engines that way, giving the wrong impression about Mr. Miller....and the perhaps correct impression of some of us at the water cooler.

Added: I see that P&E very recently gave him a “not recommended” label, and I’m wondering why. I believe, from reading this thread, that P&E's rating and the "fraudulent" accusation come from Mr. Miller's practice of referring an inordinant amount of writers to the same fee-requiring literary consultant, Paul Young. Such practice may be defendable but it doesn't look good. It makes people think the agent is getting referral kickbacks (though he might not be) when he should be making his money off actual book sales.

[Julie Worth]

And the point was made that, if “the referral is done on a ‘such as’ basis”, it would be okay. Just a matter of wording. Since he said he will do that in the future, I don’t see why he should be listed as “not recommended” purely on that basis. If there’s something else, I’d sure like to know about it, since he’s requested a partial of one of my novels.

[JustinoXXV]

Mr. Miller supposedly deals in screenplays. Successful Hollywood agents will have records and should be listed in industry trade magazines. One should be able to do a google on Miller. But a google mainly pulls up his entry on PE, this thread, and a few places that his address is posted.

Successfully Hollywood agents will also have named clientel, which Miller apparently doesn't have.

Julie, find out what books, if any, that Miller has sold. And find out who his clients are.

[Julie Worth]

You’re right. There seems to be almost nothing on him, except that he taught a workshop entitled “Showbiz 101-How the Entertainment Business Really Works” for the past couple of years at the SSA Conference in Tucson.

There's also a contributor to Variety.com named Stuart Miller that could be him.

[Stuart M. Miller]

Although I feel I hardly need to explain or defend myself in such an inane forum as this, I'm going to take one last shot at it.

First, Attorney Jaws: You're two for two with me, Cello-guy. Literary agents are, in fact, licensed and regulated, not simply "registered" as you erroneously claim, by the Labor Commissioner of the State of California under the Talent Agency Act, which does not differentiate between agents who represent writers in the motion picture and television fields, and agents who represent such other types of talent as actors, singers, dancers, newscasters, directors, producers and others in the same fields. Such agents are required to complete considerable documentation, provide fingerprints, acquire a Talent Agency Bond and follow a lengthy and specific set of rules and regulations which, if violated, can result in expulsion from the field. This includes, among other things, obtaining the written approval of the Commissioner as to the form of services contract which agents can require their clients to execute. The net result is memorialized in a license, not a "registration certificate", signed by the Commissioner and issued to each agency and required to be on display in the agency office, kind of like what attorneys hang on their walls. Let me also add something you probably don't know about attorneys in California; many of them mistakenly believe that because they are licensed as attorneys they can perform services as agents, notwithstanding not being licensed as such by the Labor Commissioner. As a result of the inappropriate performance of such unlicensed services, attorneys can be and have been forced by the Commissioner to disgorge any commissions or other forms of compensation they have been paid by clients who invoke the Act, and are subsequently required to cease and desist such illegal services. So, for any of you uninformed attorney/wannabe agents lurking around this site, take it as a word to the wise and do your own homework.

Now, Mr. Justino IV or XXV or whoever you are today: At the end of this post you'll find my resume. It speaks for itself. Now, let's see yours....

And by the way, spelling, punctuation and syntax count, which probably explains why you're stiil a wannabe.

Ms. LeBouef and Ms. Worth and the rest: I've already explained why I send people to Mr. Young's site to decide for themselves if his services are desirable (and, BTW, he's not the only one I occasionally recommend, depending on the circumstances). I've also stated unequivocally that I don't receive compensation from him or anyone else for the referrals and frankly, I don't really care whether or not anyone thinks it "looks bad". I do it to help writers who appear to me to need the help and, as I've previously said, many of them are grateful for it. If anyone is offended by this, I suggest you examine your own motives.

My resume follows.

EXPERIENCE SUMMARY
More than forty years as a Hollywood-based talent agent and consultant, primarily in the literary and packaging fields, with considerable operational and management experience. Worldwide contacts and relationships include top executives, talent and creative artists at networks, studios, distributers, independent production companies, book publishers, interactive multimedia publishers, technology and software companies.

SIGNIFICANT ACHIEVEMENTS
Established the literary department of Agency For The Performing Arts (APA), a medium-size, full service international talent agency, after a merger with my own successful independent agency. Before joining APA, owned and operated The Stuart M. Miller Co. literary agency for more than five years, with all representational and business management responsibilities for a staff of five people and a list of twenty-five to thirty clients, including Academy Award winning screenwriter David Ward ("The Sting"), Emmy Award winner Caryl Ledner ("Mary White") and Timothy Harris & Herschel Weingrod ("Trading Places", "Twins" and "Kindergarten Cop").

Other major clients represented have included Aaron Sorkin ("A Few Good Men"), Mark Victor & Michael Grais ("Poltergeist"), Barry Blaustein & David Sheffield ("Saturday Night Live" and "Coming To America"); novelist James Ellroy ("L.A. Confidential"), Eric Bercovici ("Shogun", "Tai Pan", "Washington Confidential"), MTM Enterprises co-founder and former NBC Chairman Grant Tinker ("Tinker On Television"), as well as Academy Award and double Emmy Award winner Abby Mann, eight time Emmy Award and double CableAce Award winner Stan Daniels & six time Emmy Award winner Ed. Weinberger (co-creators of "Taxi"), four time Emmy Award winner Allan Burns, (co-creator of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show"), double Tony Award winner Rupert Holmes, Academy Award and Emmy Award winner Arnold Shapiro ("Rescue 911"), and such distinguished and successful producers as David Brown, Joe Wizan, Michael Levy, Ron Roth, Steve Mills and many others. Actively supervised or was the responsible department head for the packaging and sale of such network television hits as "Home Improvement", "Roc" and "Rescue 911" and many network and cable movies, specials and other programs.

Also led APA into the New Media space in the mid-1980's, in the early days of the entertainment technology revolution. Responsible for the representation of such high profile clients in the interactive multimedia business as Greg Roach/HyperBole Studios ("The Madness of Roland", "Quantum Gate","The Vortex: Quantum Gate II", "The X-Files"); Peter Adair & Haney Armstrong ("In the First Degree"); Kinetic Visuals ("Shuttle Commander: NASA Flight Simulator"); Doug Barnett ("Return to Zork"-Designer); Michele Em ("Return to Zork"-Writer); William Colby, former Director of the CIA ("Spycraft: The Great Game") and Intermetrics, Inc., a high technology software supplier to such customers as the Sony Gameshow Network and Compaq Computer Corporation.

Prior to assuming responsibility for APA's new technology activities, formed and ran the agency's iterary department for twelve years, during which time managed the growth of the department from four agents and a support staff of six, to twelve agents and a support staff of fifteen. Increased annual billings from less than $2 million to over $30 million. Also created the formal tri-department structure (literary, talent and personal appearance) utilized by the agency.

In 1995, re-established The Stuart M. Miller Co. as a literary and interactive multimedia agency representing and packaging film and television writers, directors and producers, interactive multimedia content and technology creators, and a broad range of intellectual property in both the traditional linear media and the emerging and expanding new media. Recent deals have included sales of original screenplays to Pariah, Cosmic Entertainment, Ivan Reitman Productions, Jersey Shore, Destination Films, Radar Pictures and Bel-Air Entertainment, the sale of the autobiography of original U.S. Mercury and Gemini astronaut Gordon Cooper to HarperCollins Publishing and the sale of first-time author Daniel Price's novel SLICK to Random House, as well as the licensing of new content to AtomFilms and technology to the USC School of Cinema-TV. The agency has also provided consulting services to such major clients as America Online, Compaq Computer Corporation and Human Code, Inc.

Additionally, have considerable agenting experience in the book publishing world as a pioneer in the representation of rights for the novelization of motion picture screenplays and teleplays to publishers in behalf of writers and producers. Subsequently, was responsible for the sale and licensing of more than 50 original books to most of the major American publishing companies. Have developed and maintained relationships with many publishers, editors and book agents.

RELATED BACKGROUND
Featured panelist and speaker at major schools and industry events such as NATPE, NAB, CES, Intermedia, Digital Hollywood, Digital L.A., Digital San Francisco, Writers Connection, American Film Institute (AFI), Computer Game Developers Conference, South By Southwest Multimedia Conference, UCLA, USC, Loyola/Marymount, Southern California Writers' Conference, Santa Barbara Writers' Conference, Society of Southwestern Authors, Mid-Oregon Production Organization Network Conference and many others. Spearheaded APA's participation and sponsorship activities at the Toronto International Film Festival, the largest and one of the most important film festivals in North America. Interviewed by and quoted in numerous publications including: Los Angeles Times, Newsweek, Daily Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Los Angeles Daily News, Red Herring, Interactive Weekly and others.

CAREER HISTORY

1995- THE STUART M. MILLER CO.
Owner/Manager, Independent Literary and Interactive Multimedia Agency

1982-1995 AGENCY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS, INC (APA)
Executive Vice President
Head of New Media Department 1994-1995

Senior Vice President 1984-1994
Head of Literary & Packaging Department

Vice President 1982-1984
Head of Literary Department

1977-1982 THE STUART M. MILLER CO.
Owner/Manager, Independent Literary Agency

1974-1977 THE BLOOM/MILLER ORGANIZATION
Partner, Independent Literary Agency

1967-1974 MEL BLOOM & ASSOCIATES
Agent, Independent Literary Agency

1964-1967 THE MITCHELL J. HAMILBURG AGENCY
Agent, Independent Talent and Literary Agency

ORGANIZATIONS

1994-1995 ACADEMY OF INTERACTIVE ARTS & SCIENCES
Board of Directors

1978- ACADEMY OF MOTION PICTURES ARTS & SCIENCES
Member

1990- ACADEMY OF TELEVISION ARTS & SCIENCES
Member

1985-1998 AMERICAN FILM INSTITUTE
Member, Third Decade Council

1992- ASSOCIATION OF TALENT AGENTS
Current Member; Board of Directors 1992-1995

1998-1999 DIGITAL HOLLYWOOD AWARDS
Board of Advisors

1993-1996 STUDIO VILLAGE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION
Board of Directors

[Stuart M. Miller]

Justino: Please remove the thread title you have been running next to my name. Even if you don't know how to properly spell "fraudulent", it's offensive, misleading, inaccurate and probably grounds for less polite action on my part than this request.

Anyone: I have no idea what the "P & E" listing or the other "watchdog" sites referred to in some of the previous posts are, so I don't know what kind of damage they may be doing to me out there in the cyberworld. If someone could direct me to any such sites so that I can see for myself, it will be appreciated. Thanks. smm

[paprikapink]

P&E is Preditors and Editors, a very helpful reference site for authors. http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/

Thanks for your calm and thoughtful replies to the posts on this thread. It's refreshing.

-pkpk

[JustinoXXV]

Miller, anyone can post a lengthy resume. How much of it is factual is an entirely different matter. I find it odd that such a supposedly accomplished person in the film business has no obvious record of recent screenplay sales. My comments stands, as well this thread.

After all, you are the ones referring writers to a paid script consulting service, and only one such service. That's shady at best.

The fact that such a supposedly successful agent feels hysterically enough to private im me to this thread, to bring my attention to it speaks volumes. If you were really all you claim to be, you'd be able to easily dismiss this thread. But if you're running a scam that you're afraid will be exposed, then you really would be upset to find out your name came up on this thread.

[JustinoXXV]

"Please remove the thread title you have been running next to my name. Even if you don't know how to properly spell "fraudulent", it's offensive, misleading, inaccurate and probably grounds for less polite action on my part than this request."

Are you threatening me, Mr. Miller, on this public internet forum?

And by the way, what are your recent script sales. Whose script did you close a deal on in the past 3 years? Have any scripts you sold recently moved forward and actually been produced?

The fact that you would try and threaten me on this public forum shows a lot about your character, doesn't it, Miller?

[JustinoXXV]

"

RE Stuart M. Miller
Go to the "Fradulent Agent" thread to read a response."

That was the private message I received from Stuart Miller on March 05, 2005.

This thread would be low on the list, Miller. But you jumped in on it way after the fact. Then you private messaged me, apparently wanting me to respond. And I did.

So I guess you want people to know you're a fraud, with a financial relationship with your literary consultant friend?

[Julie Worth]

Oh, good grief, Justino, give it a rest. He gave you his entire history back into the sixties, which is substantial, and all you have is an email where he was actually trying to help you, as far as I can tell. You have no basis for the accusation, so do what he asked.

[Jaws]

Although I feel I hardly need to explain or defend myself in such an inane forum as this, I'm going to take one last shot at it.

First, Attorney Jaws: You're two for two with me, Cello-guy. Literary agents are, in fact, licensed and regulated, not simply "registered" as you erroneously claim, by the Labor Commissioner of the State of California under the Talent Agency Act, which does not differentiate between agents who represent writers in the motion picture and television fields, and agents who represent such other types of talent as actors, singers, dancers, newscasters, directors, producers and others in the same fields. Such agents are required to complete considerable documentation, provide fingerprints, acquire a Talent Agency Bond and follow a lengthy and specific set of rules and regulations which, if violated, can result in expulsion from the field. This includes, among other things, obtaining the written approval of the Commissioner as to the form of services contract which agents can require their clients to execute. The net result is memorialized in a license, not a "registration certificate", signed by the Commissioner and issued to each agency and required to be on display in the agency office, kind of like what attorneys hang on their walls. Let me also add something you probably don't know about attorneys in California; many of them mistakenly believe that because they are licensed as attorneys they can perform services as agents, notwithstanding not being licensed as such by the Labor Commissioner. As a result of the inappropriate performance of such unlicensed services, attorneys can be and have been forced by the Commissioner to disgorge any commissions or other forms of compensation they have been paid by clients who invoke the Act, and are subsequently required to cease and desist such illegal services. So, for any of you uninformed attorney/wannabe agents lurking around this site, take it as a word to the wise and do your own homework.
:Huh: Mr. Miller, your comments appear to be directed to the objections that you want to answer, not to the ones actually made.
None of my comments concerned attorneys who think they can be agents under California law. I don't. I'm not a salesperson by nature—one of the critical aspects of being an agent—so I don't even try. My snide remark instead concerned agents who perform such legal duties as interpreting and negotiating contracts on behalf of third parties, which is the definition of the practice of law. Note also that it was a tangent I have not since pursued.
It's not a license if there is no preparation required for it other than paying a fee and agreeing to follow a code of conduct (calling it a "license" in the statute doesn't make it one). In any event, the description grievously misrepresents California law; the "considerable documentation" required is the equivalent of a national-agency check, the relevant parts of the regulations and statute do differ between agents whose clients sign personal-services contracts and agents whose clients sign piecework contracts (not to mention the case-law distinctions!), etc. Keep in mind, too, that it takes some pretty darned serious misconduct to actually get disciplined or kicked out by the Labor Commissioner (admittedly, the Bar doesn't act much more honorably, even if its rules say that it should).
In any event, it appears that you have conceded the "professional" issue, although I'm sure from the tenor of your previous remarks that any response you make is going to claim otherwise.
Note, too, that the point that acting outside the strict scope of the Talent Agency Act—including representation of prose properties—means no regulation at all has been conceded. That, in fact, was the main reason I jumped in in the first place. Even assuming realistic enforcement—something that doesn't happen—literary agents, and otherwise-regulated agents acting in the capacity as literary agents, are not covered by the TAA's protections/requirements.
I make no judgments on your ability to actually get your clients' work sold. That's not my area of expertise. My area of expertise, though, includes professional and trade regulation. Literary agents are in a trade. That's neither better than nor worse than a profession; it just isn't a profession. Trying to claim the mantle of a profession, though, borders on false advertising at best.

Further counsel sayeth not. This has gotten so far from the original topic that I'm not going to respond further.

[CaoPaux]

And by the way, spelling, punctuation and syntax count, which probably explains why you're stiil a wannabe.
Thanks for your calm and thoughtful replies to the posts on this thread. :roll:

[aka eraser]

I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV. I'm a moderator on the AW Cooler and have decided to edit the thread's title. I was uncomfortable with it since Mr. Miller first appeared here to address Justino's claim.

Mr. Miller appears to have accepted Jaws' advice regarding how to phrase/handle future referrals and that's good enough for me.

[paprikapink]

:roll:

If Justino came after me the way he came after Miller, I'da been a lot less calm and thoughtful than "you spell bad."

But of course you're reight, Cao, I knew when I posted it that I was once again revealing my inherent pollyanna tendencies, opening myself up to wanton, deserved mockery.

:Shrug:

But in my own pathetic defense... compared to the typical debate on a message board, this one did maintain a certain level of decorum. And between Jaws and Miller, one is exposed to a plethora of complex, well-constructed sentences. Ya don't get to see that too often in the land of smilies and TLAs (that's "three-letter acronyms," just FYI).
:Thumbs:

-paprikapink

[CaoPaux]

But in my own pathetic defense... compared to the typical debate on a message board, this one did maintain a certain level of decorum. And between Jaws and Miller, one is exposed to a plethora of complex, well-constructed sentences. Ya don't get to see that too often in the land of smilies and TLAs (that's "three-letter acronyms," just FYI).
:Thumbs:

-paprikapinkQuite so. I was just tickled at the juxtaposition, especially since Mr. Miller fell victim to the Rule that any comment on another's spelling will always contain its own error. I think this all proves we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. :D

[Stuart M. Miller]

OK, enough already.

Justino: You are some pathetic piece of work; I don't know about the rest of the posters on this thread, but I can practically see the spit flying from your pursed little mouth as you hunch over the keyboard pounding out your sophomoric nonsense. Like I said, I've posted my resume, now let's see yours.

Jaws: You and I will never see eye-to-eye on the issues we've addressed in our "correspondence", but I appreciate your points, am grateful for your "such as" suggestion and cool with the idea of closing out our discussion as of this date.

The rest of you posters: Thanks for your input and, to the extent offered, your understanding and support. Best of luck to all of you. Onward!

[JustinoXXV]

Mr. Miller.

Yawn.

My original post questioned why an agent would refer people to a literary consultant. (quite possibly you're getting a kickback).

The rest of this is totally irrelevant. Other posters on this thread have verified, and you have admitted to, referring people to the paid services of a literary consultant.

As someone who many years ago had a temp job on an HR office, I know very well how people LIE on so called resumes. A resume means nothing, until the company calls to verify whether the info on said resume is factual.

And I don't care to verify the information on your resume. You aren't anywhere near important enough for me to do so.

This is my last comments on this thread, and any potential clients that may come your way are free to decide for themselves what course of action to take, using this thread and other web info on you (or lack of info in the case of sales records) to decide for themselves.

[JustinoXXV]

" Whether passing bad scripts to a friend (consultant) who charges is good or bad, I leave that to the person who gets such news."

Miller doesn't wait to the script stage. If you reread comments on the beginning of this thread, Miller refers people to his literary consultant friend after receiving their query letters.

So he has no idea of the person's screenwriting capabilities. It sounds even shadier that he would refer people to this consultant friend of his after not even seeing the SCRIPT.

This is, a rather common scam.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

And by the way, spelling, punctuation and syntax count, which probably explains why you're stiil a wannabe.

Ms. LeBouef...Indeed it does, Mr. Miller. Indeed it does.

[Stuart M. Miller]

Ms. LeBouef: Aaarrrggghhh! Hoist by my own petard, eh?! Just goes to show you how even a careful guy like me can miss a typo. Even so, I think it's the only one in the volume of writing I've done on this thread, but I STILL plead guilty to it and throw myself on the mercy of the court. I can only chalk it up to my poor eyes being tired at the end of a long and, in some ways, fruitless, evening of self-defense.

But you're right, it was funny. Thanks to you and CaoPaux for pointing it out to me.

Justino: 12:05 PM--"This is my last comments on this thread...".

12:12 PM--"Miller doesn't wait...".

Although you're obviously not reliable when you declare yourself finished, one can take some comfort in the fact that you remain consistently ignorant of the rules of grammar.

The defense rests...
****************************
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart M. Miller
And by the way, spelling, punctuation and syntax count, which probably explains why you're stiil a wannabe.

Ms. LeBouef...
Indeed it does, Mr. Miller. Indeed it does.

[JustinoXXV]

But he doesn't just say no thanks. He refers them to a "friend".

Something which at a minimum is beneficial to his friend. And quite possibly, beneficial to Mr. Miller himself.

No one is faulting Miller for rejecting anyone. It's his so called referrals that people question.

In all aspects of the talent/literary business, these scams abound. A lot of talent agents in NYC and LA look for actors or models to come in. These actors and models are told that they have the right look, but poor pictures. So the agency refers these people to a photographer who charges them hundreds of dollars. The poor person goes back to the agency, who of course can do nothing for them.

Miller is likely doing something similiar. He tells them that their query needs work, and that he knows this insider who can help them.

I'd like to know, Joe, why are you defending a deplorable practice?

If someone's concept is truly unmarketable, there isn't anything Mr. Young can do about it. That person needs to move on to the next script.

And I know of no legimate agency that does with Miller does. It's not at all normal.

As for the talent agencies, if you truly came in bad pictures, they would tell you to go to a good photographer. But they would never make any recommendations. They wouldn't want people to percieve any conflict of interest.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Ms. LeBouef: Aaarrrggghhh! Hoist by my own petard, eh?!Yep. And you ain't stopped yet.

[MacAllister]

Nicole--I supposed you could just change it to something easier...:roll:But what fun would THAT be?

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Nicole--I supposed you could just change it to something easier...Yes, but "Nicole J. The-Beef" just doesn't roll off the tongue. Also, it suggests a certain physique that my short^H^H^H^H^Hfetchingly petite figure just can't live up to.

[MacAllister]

Oh gawd...sounds like a mob nickname..."Nicky the Beef"...(killin' myself, here--I MUST go write something, instead)

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Ya wants I should rough 'im up a little, boss?

[Stuart M. Miller]

Nicole: (At this point, I feel entitled, and maybe safer, to use your first name). You got me again, sorry for spelling your last name incorrectly. At least I got PETARD right. Now, I'm off to my optometrist...

Stu
********************************
Justino: I guess we haven't heard the last of you even yet, huh?

********************************

The comedy rolls on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart M. Miller
Ms. LeBouef: Aaarrrggghhh! Hoist by my own petard, eh?!
Yep. And you ain't stopped yet.
__________________
Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little (Publishing as Nicole J. LeBoeuf)
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[Julie Worth]

A miller cried foul
when blackbirds soiled the sky
and sh*t on his head.

[JustinoXXV]

"I am only objecting to someone who has made a crusade to ruin another person's name by posting slanderous remarks in a public forum that can be seen by millions."

I am on no such crusade. I made my comments last year, and it was Miller who chose to draw me back to this thread himself, with his private message.

I never accused Miller of taking my, or any other's writer. I did say that he refers people to paid consulting services, and this is abnormal behavior for any agent for all the reasons I posted.

Everything I posted was factual. It is not normal, when passing on a potential client, to refer them to just one PAID service. That isn't standard literary agent practice, and we all know it.

Miller himself admits the referrals.

Others on this thread have admitted receiving those referrals after they submitted queries.

So then Joe, what is your real objection?

If Miller is legit, which I very much doubt, his record will speak for itself. (That's including recent sales).

BTW, Joe, the Beware board is to alert people to scams. I've nothing against Miller per say, but I would warn any writer, actor, or model to run like crazy from an agent that refers people to paid services.

[DaveKuzminski]

I'm almost willing to change P&E's stand against agents recommending editing services, but if I do the agents will have to accept the writer's manuscript first and agree to represent it for at least a year. That would mean no upfront fees, no reading fees, no fee for representation, and no referral fees from the editing service whatsoever. The only fees that would be allowed and justified would be for copying and mailing after the deed occurs and only on condition that the original receipts are provided to the writer with the invoice requesting reimbursement. Also, such reimbursements would not be permitted if the author was dropped before a full year expired or if any of the publishers submitted to were unsuitable such as sending a YA novel to a publisher for erotica only.

But the problem is that those stipulations are just too easy to ignore and break. Plus, the writer is unlikely to know or find out some of those. So, it's no go as far as P&E is concerned. We just aren't recommending any agencies that recommend editing services by name without being asked first.

[Stuart M. Miller]

Ms. Worth: Thanks, I think.
****************************
Justino: Still waiting for that resume of yours. Unless temping at the HR firm is it...?
****************************
Dear "Editor" Kuzminski: In spite of the fact that I don't pretend to be a spokesman for agents, be they good, bad, recommended or otherwise, I'm thinking of launching a website modeled on yours. Mine, of course, will be one where I take unsolicited, unsupported, careless shots at pretentious, obnoxious, unknown wannabes who have the temerity to assume they can lecture and dictate to agents how they should operate their businesses. From your post, one would almost think you have some position of stature and influence in the literary world, "almost" being the operative word here, as a perusal of your credits on the P & E site quickly reveals. For the record, I'm reproducing our email exchange of earlier today. Your gall is exceeded only by your inflated ego and lack of grace...
***************************
Dear Mr. Miller,

P&E's recommendations are based upon criteria posted within its web sites. We stand by our recommendation concerning your agency. As well, we have been following the conversation at Absolute Write since it started.

Cordially,

Dave Kuzminski, Editor

Preditors & Editors (tm)

-------------- Original message from Smmco@aol.com: --------------

Dear Mr. Kuzminski: I only recently learned of the existence of your P & E site as a result of some postings on the Absolute Write Water Cooler "Beware" site. I was surprised and distressed to find that your listing of me is "Not Recommended". Without getting into the specifics of your qualifications to make such a public judgement and recommendation, I ask that you go to the Absolute site in question and review all of the postings on the STUART M. MILLER/WGA AGENT thread and then reconsider my listing on your site. Sincerely, Stu Miller

[DaveKuzminski]

It will come as no surprise to others who peruse this forum that I stand by what I stated in my email, which is quoted accurately, and in this topic. As to the virtues you attribute to me, I must be guilty as a friend of mine used to claim that I didn't have an egotistical bone in my body... those were all in my head. A lack of grace seems to be intrinsically entertwined with that ego since one begets the other in many circumstances. As to gall, that's a necessary trait needed for going head to head with individuals who are so certain they're right that they can't fathom how poorly their own actions fail them and others. Pretentious? Well, I might not earn that one since I've never claimed anything more than that I care about how writers are treated. Obnoxious? Well, I'm trying right now, so you're probably right about that one. However, an unknown wannabe? To what, I ask? You should really be more precise in your insults. Then there's temerity. Goodness, I haven't been accused of that since I last called someone who'd just threatened my life. Were I now dead, that might have been an accurate description, but dead men rarely write.

Then again, if you were more into the mainstream of the agenting business, you might know how P&E has been applauded by others within the publishing industry, aside from a few scammers, of course, and now you. Not being applauded by scammers doesn't bother me at all since that's actually a compliment. However, I'm willing to lose a few brownie points on your behalf. I'm in this for writers, after all.

But the one thing you're absolutely wrong (pun intended) about is that I tried to dictate anything to you. You're free to continue operating your business the way you want. You just won't have my recommendation because your methods conflict with P&E's criteria.

By the way, let's get down to what really bothers you. <Sarcasm>You and I both know that PA is respected within the legitimate publishing industry because it has integrity and honesty.</Sarcasm> You could care less if someone posted a remark about you on some site like that without any clout. It mattered though when it was posted on Absolute Write and P&E. That kind of negates much of your comments about qualifications.

[JustinoXXV]

This is not about me being right or wrong.

You're making this into an entirely personal issue. The purpose of the Beware thread is to warn writers of shady people in the business.

It is not mainstream agent practice to make referrals the way Mr. Miller does. Not at all.

No reputable agent does this, in fact, every legit person I've met in publishing or in film would tell me to run from someone who makes the kind of referrals Mr. Miller makes.

So please tell me what why you're apparently so upset?

BTW, every writer or business person who does anything out there will get reviews of his or her service.

You can buy books and magazines on what agent, restaurant, hotel, film, play, book, etc are recommended or not recommended. Likewise, people put up their recommendations for or against things on the internet.

I do not recommend any agent that would refer large numbers of people who come his way to one paid consulting service.

Of course, whenever one reads a review, it's really up to the reviewer to take that information, process it, and use it with whatever other information that he or she has to make a final judgement.

And Joe, I've known many an artist to fall victim to this kind of referral service. So yes, I do all I can to warn artists in avoiding anything that seems shady. I think I did my fellow writers a service in letting them know that legit agents do not refer people to paid consultants.

[Stuart M. Miller]

Well, Mr. Kuzminski, it probably won't come as any surprise to the perusers of this thread (to the extent it continues after our little rondelay) that I also stand by what I said. After forty-plus years in what I thought was the "mainstream of the agenting business" (but I guess you know better), I'm content to let my actions, integrity, reputation, relationships, knowledge and success speak for themselves. I honestly never heard of you, P & E, and whatever or whoever "PA" is until it came up on this thread in the past couple of days, so I'm genuinely amused that you think I'm concerned about your "clout" in the publishing industry or anywhere else. Indeed, I'd never heard of Absolute Write until I recently googled myself out of idle curiosity and found Justino's slanderous thread title as the first reference to me. The only reason I jumped in here was to protect and defend my well-earned good name from being so casually, if inarticulately, dragged through the muck, no matter how unimportant the muck-draggers might be. I seriously doubt that anyone with whom I do business has ever heard of any of you, either, and if they did, they wouldn't give any more credence to your opinions and recommendations than I do. That isn't to say that much of what has been said about me on this thread and on your site isn't, at best, erroneous and, at worst, demeaning, it's just that it doesn't actually matter. Let's leave it at that. Like joecalabre, I'm done.

[reph]

PA is respected within the legitimate publishing industry because it has integrity and honesty.
Word missing, Dave?

[MacAllister]

Errr...I suspect in the heat of the moment, he meant P&E, Reph...

[mdin]

For what it's worth...

P&E is fairly well-known and well-respected in the literary community. I wouldn't know about the screen industry. I don't know how many hits P&E gets a day, but I bet it's a lot. Not recommended doesn't always mean "scam." It just means the agency/publisher/whatever involves itself in a non-writer-friendly practice.

Referring someone to a specific paid service is a no-no. It's a common tactic used by many, many scammers out there. We all know that. But that doesn't automatically mean Mr. Miller is a scam artist himself. He may very well be doing what he claims--sending business his friend's way. He shouldn't do it in my opinion, but it's his business. Mr. Miller's resume is very impressive, and assuming it's accurate, it probably doesn't matter who says what on the Internet. His track record speaks for itself.

:flag:

[Julie Worth]

I’ve found P&E to be useful, but I no longer put any stock in most of their recommendations. They often don’t say why they’re recommending or not recommending, and they’ve got some successful and legitimate agents with the not recommended label, while outright scammers and incompetents have a neutral rating. If they can’t give a reason, they shouldn’t give a rating.

In the case of Mr. Miller, for instance, P&E outght to say, not recommended because, if he rejects you, he might try to steer you to someone who can help you. We can’t approve of that because sometimes bad people do that too. He’s probably not a bad person, but we can’t let people flout our rules, can we?

[Stuart M. Miller]

Dear Ms. Julie Worth: How did such a thoughtful, intelligent lady like you fall in with the gang the couldn't shoot straight? Thanks for your comments throughout the back and forth on this thread. They've been a breath of fresh air wafting through the hurricane of self-serving stench which much of this stuff has been about. Stu Miller

P.S. Given the suspicious nature of so many of you threaders out there, let it be known that I never heard of Ms. Worth before stumbling onto this forum, have had no direct contact with her since doing so, until this posting, and don't have any hidden agenda in making my remarks. She can confirm this if she so chooses, not that I expect certain people to believe either of us under any circumstances. So what else is new?

[DaveKuzminski]

Reph, read that with the following sentence as well. Then the meaning and sarcasm should be clearer. I gave that a lot of thought before I wrote it.

Julie, it's a guide with recommendations offered. We don't recommend against some "outright scammers and incompetents" because we haven't received any complaints or other proof concerning their activities. If you have proof, feel free to share it with us and we'll change our recommendations. In the meantime, we're not claiming to be the best. We leave that to others to decide. We're just a guide.

Lastly, I'm surprised that you haven't heard of PA (PublishAmerica, for Mr. Miller's benefit).

[Julie Worth]

Mr. Miller: We have had contact, but you wouldn’t know it, as I submitted work to you under another name. You were iffy, at best, but you didn’t refer me to Paul Young or anyone else.

(Yeah, you probably decided I couldn’t be helped. <sniff>)

Dave: I understand that—hey, I’m not paying you, so whatever you put in there is GREAT! But still, it’s nice to know why someone is not recommended, because some things don’t bother me at all.

[DaveKuzminski]

Julie, I don't because some of the scammers try to play word games by quickly reconfiguring their spiel or web page. If a writer simply has to know, they can write to me.

[CaoPaux]

Julie, in my experience, the "Not Recommended"'s on P&E for otherwise legit agencies are usually the result of a possible conflict of interest (which may or may not be bothersome, but must be noted for the sake of consistency). In any case, Dave will supply details about a particular agency. Drop him an email if you have any concerns.

[Stuart M. Miller]

Reph, read that with the following sentence as well. Then the meaning and sarcasm should be clearer. I gave that a lot of thought before I wrote it.

Julie, it's a guide with recommendations offered. We don't recommend against some "outright scammers and incompetents" because we haven't received any complaints or other proof concerning their activities. If you have proof, feel free to share it with us and we'll change our recommendations. In the meantime, we're not claiming to be the best. We leave that to others to decide. We're just a guide.

Lastly, I'm surprised that you haven't heard of PA (PublishAmerica, for Mr. Miller's benefit).

Mr. Kuzminski: Not only have I not heard of PublishAmerica, I've never heard of any of the publishers of your material, as listed on your website, nor could I find any of them listed in my copy of Literary Market Place (LMP), the bible of the legitimate publishing industry. Per your advice to Reph, I did re-read your complete comments in connection with the PA reference you made. Really, Mr. K, if your usual literary efforts are as vague and difficult to parse as that apparent attempt at sarcasm, it would explain the fact that, to date, you haven't succeeded in finding an established, mainstream publisher for your work. You'd probably benefit from the assistance of a paid literary consultant. May I suggest my friend Paul Young? Understand though, that I'm not saying he can or would actually give you the help you so obviously need; I'm just a guide.

[CaoPaux]

If you have not heard of PA, Mr. Miller, then you do not read Publisher's Weekly, at the very least. :Huh:

[victoriastrauss]

I'm closing this thread, which has ceased to produce useful or intelligent discussion.

- Victoria