To Quest Or Not To Quest

Zelenka · Oct 21, 2007

I did a quick search and couldn't find another thread already discussing this, so...

What are people's opinions of the quest style plot? I'm thinking mostly of fantasy - I don't read enough SF to know if it's common there too but that would be interesting to find out. Do people still love these types of story or do you think it's a cliche? Is it maybe more common in YA fantasy and Children's Fantasy than adult?

Me personally, I'm not sure if I like them or not. I tend to like writing them more than I like reading that sort of story, but I suppose like everything it depends on the writing, whether the quest motif is handled in an interesting and novel way. I wondered what other people thought though. (And this might also help me make up my mind between two possible routes I can go down in my own fantasy story

)

JessR

Saanen · Oct 21, 2007

You mean like plot coupon quests, where the group has to find one item, which leads them to another item, which leads them to another item, etc.? I loathe those. But I don't much like high fantasy of any kind, for that matter.

When I was in high school, I remember writing a story where the main character said in the first line, "I'm sick of quests!" and the rest of the story concerned him and another character debating about what they should do over the summer if they didn't go on a quest. It wasn't very good, but at least they didn't set out with a gruff fighter, a half-elf thief, a spunky princess disguised as a boy, and an angsty mage with a dark past, searching for the sceptre that will show them who the true king is and rid the world of the Dark Lord forever, or at least until Book 2.

Azraelsbane · Oct 21, 2007

I don't do quests, not in the traditional sense. All my quests are internal struggles. Basically no one is ever trying to 100% destroy evil, but just keep everything as balanced as possible, and since I have a cast of anti-heroes and pseudo-villains it's hard enough for them to keep themselves straight, let alone the rest of the world.

Zelenka · Oct 21, 2007

Saanen said:
You mean like plot coupon quests, where the group has to find one item, which leads them to another item, which leads them to another item, etc.? I loathe those. But I don't much like high fantasy of any kind, for that matter.

When I was in high school, I remember writing a story where the main character said in the first line, "I'm sick of quests!" and the rest of the story concerned him and another character debating about what they should do over the summer if they didn't go on a quest. It wasn't very good, but at least they didn't set out with a gruff fighter, a half-elf thief, a spunky princess disguised as a boy, and an angsty mage with a dark past, searching for the sceptre that will show them who the true king is and rid the world of the Dark Lord forever, or at least until Book 2.

Yeah, sort of anything like that, where the object of the plot is to find some item or person or what have you. In fairness I have read a few that I enjoyed, and I have a friend who wrote something along those lines but managed to pull it off IMO without it seeming like a standard quest type plot thing.

Reason I asked, other than just curiosity, is that the fantasy book I'm writing at the moment was meant to be a kind of revenge tragedy more than anything else and ended up in the first draft as more like one of these quest stories. Although it was quite fun to make up clues and stuff, as I was writing it I was thinking, this isn't working, too cliche. So I've now gone back to the original idea, I'm taking all the magical object stuff out, and it's back to being more centered on the MC and his problems, with a hint of political intrigue there.

So really I just wondered what other people thought, since the issue had come up with me.

edgyllama · Oct 21, 2007

I once tried to write a story where the "hero" was completely clueless. He was sent by his master to a nearby kingdom to retrieve a rare spell book and along the way met various people who were manipulating him to their own ends. Kinda depressing, never finished it.

Gray Rose · Oct 21, 2007

My WIP is a kind of quest. Only instead of items the MC collects people.

There's no good and evil, but the MC has a well-defined objective from the get-go.

It is not the most sophisticated of structures, but I like it.

oscuridad · Oct 21, 2007

I remember reading 'Tear of the Gods' by William E. Feist. Possibly the worst book I have ever read. At that point I realised the traditional quest was pretty much dead.

Ravenlocks · Oct 21, 2007

I just realized I kinda have a quest in my WIP, although they find the person they're looking for fairly early on and then spend the rest of the story trying to force him to do what he's supposedly destined to do, although it turns out one of the other characters is actually better suited to do it. But I don't really think of mine as a quest story. It's more about what's going on among my three main characters.

I think a quest could still work if it's fresh (and God knows plenty of stale ones keep popping up on the shelves). But if it's not what you want to write or like to read, you probably want to steer clear of it.

edgyllama · Oct 21, 2007

oscuridad said:
I remember reading 'Tear of the Gods' by William E. Feist. Possibly the worst book I have ever read. At that point I realised the traditional quest was pretty much dead.

Oh that's the one where he rewrote part of the history of his world, making three books in the series suufffer from continuity errors. Oh yes, that one.

LisaHy · Oct 21, 2007

oscuridad said:
I remember reading 'Tear of the Gods' by William E. Feist. Possibly the worst book I have ever read. At that point I realised the traditional quest was pretty much dead.

It was Raymond E Feist and the book was based on a computer game based on his world and characters. It was a horrendously bad book, but more because of it's convoluted origins than anything else.

Cheers, Lisa.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 21, 2007

I'm not exactly sure what a quest book is. Wasn't LOTR a quest? Aren't most books quests in a sense that they are all seeking something? Mysteries and thrillers are seeking the solution to a puzzle.

Every episode of Star Trek was a quest to find something. Star Wars was a quest.

mscelina · Oct 21, 2007

In fantasy, probably more than any other genre, a quest is pretty standard. But the quests themselves? Not any more. Fantasy novels don't have to be set out like aD&D game any more.

Sorry to fall back on one of my favorite resources, but The Hero's Journey by Campbell identifies how a personal quest works. I personally find those more interesting--the quest of how a normal person morphs into a hero.

That being said, the MC in Asphodel has a quest. No, really. She does. Her quest is to fight the Trojan War--again.

Zelenka · Oct 21, 2007

mscelina said:
In fantasy, probably more than any other genre, a quest is pretty standard. But the quests themselves? Not any more. Fantasy novels don't have to be set out like aD&D game any more.

Sorry to fall back on one of my favorite resources, but The Hero's Journey by Campbell identifies how a personal quest works. I personally find those more interesting--the quest of how a normal person morphs into a hero.

That being said, the MC in Asphodel has a quest. No, really. She does. Her quest is to fight the Trojan War--again.

When I was thinking about this, I realised that pretty much every type of story is based around of some type of 'quest', but I was thinking specifically in terms of seeking out some object or other. My plot originally involved the search for an old artefact, following clues etc. and that was what I was told was cliche (and indeed, I had thought that myself as I was writing it). Unlike some stories that handle this type of plot in a unique way (like you've mentioned), mine was really straightforward and I didn't like it. I kept imagining the sort of reaction it'd get over at the SYW forum if I posted it for starters!

But I suppose technically it still is a quest, but more a personal one. My MC is trying to regain his social status and power. But that's pretty much what I was trying to say in the first post - my opinion is that the quest motif thing can work but I think now, there are so many books that use that kind of story, you have to do something different with it.

I'm actually keen now though to read that Raymond E Feist book just to see how bad it is. I have a couple of his books somewhere but not that one.

Zelenka · Oct 21, 2007

Shadow_Ferret said:
I'm not exactly sure what a quest book is. Wasn't LOTR a quest? Aren't most books quests in a sense that they are all seeking something? Mysteries and thrillers are seeking the solution to a puzzle.

Every episode of Star Trek was a quest to find something. Star Wars was a quest.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - the kind of plot I was talking about was the sort of thing Saanen mentioned - where the entire story involves looking for some object, usually some sort of magical object or mythical thing or something like that.

benbradley · Oct 21, 2007

JessRamage said:
Sorry if I wasn't clear - the kind of plot I was talking about was the sort of thing Saanen mentioned - where the entire story involves looking for some object, usually some sort of magical object or mythical thing or something like that.

Or perhaps for a person/guru - the two I'm thinking of while reading this thread are "The Wizard of Oz" and "Monty Python and The Holy Grail."

"We're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz...

benbradley · Oct 21, 2007

edgyllama said:
I once tried to write a story where the "hero" was completely clueless. He was sent by his master to a nearby kingdom to retrieve a rare spell book and along the way met various people who were manipulating him to their own ends. Kinda depressing, never finished it.

Hmm, maybe if you could make it a mystery and change the MC to female - that sounds like the formula for a lot of popular mysteries: incompetent female MC somehow manages to solve it.

To be fair, I must admit I'm not even sure if that's actually what happens, as I haven't managed to read all the way through a ~~Grafton~~ ~~Evanovich~~ recent popuar mystery novel. I did read a Patricia Cornwell all the way through, I think it was "All That Remains." The MC there was quite competent.

Sorry, thread hijacked in search of a decent mystery, we now return you to our current fantasy, now in progress...

JoNightshade · Oct 21, 2007

You could define almost any story in terms of a "quest" motif - MC wants something and strives to attain it in the course of the novel. That's basic character motivation.

What makes it interesting is what the object of the quest is, and how it is attained. The object could be the love of a beautiful woman, and that could be obtained in all sorts of ways.

But I think what you're asking is whether or not one specific type of quest has become overused. That is, the quest in which a magical object must be obtained to save the world. And the MC obtains it by taking a long journey with a band of friends.

Yes. Completely overdone.

Voyager · Oct 21, 2007

The quest for truth, the quest for justice, the quest for a better BLT, the quest for money to pay the light bill. All life is but a quest within a quest.

Doodlebug · Oct 21, 2007

JoNightshade said:
You could define almost any story in terms of a "quest" motif - MC wants something and strives to attain it in the course of the novel. That's basic character motivation.

What makes it interesting is what the object of the quest is, and how it is attained. The object could be the love of a beautiful woman, and that could be obtained in all sorts of ways.

But I think what you're asking is whether or not one specific type of quest has become overused. That is, the quest in which a magical object must be obtained to save the world. And the MC obtains it by taking a long journey with a band of friends.

Yes. Completely overdone.

Totally agree with both parts of this post. That, yes, many stories are quests in the sense of the protag striving to get something (anyone see "The Pursuit of Happyness"?) And also that the band of friends thing has been done ad naseum.

Although, because the quest is so used so often, there must be something in it that really appeals to people. Maybe people like the idea of comrades sticking together through thick and thin looking for that one, perfect thing.

Shweta · Oct 21, 2007

People still buy them. But I think they've been done to death. Though that's a really got time to turn them on their heads, I guess.
And Lois McMaster Bujold's Curse of Chalion is arguably a quest story and I love it anyway.

LisaHy · Oct 21, 2007

Doodlebug said:
Although, because the quest is so used so often, there must be something in it that really appeals to people. Maybe people like the idea of comrades sticking together through thick and thin looking for that one, perfect thing.

Totally agree.

I think the majority of people just like sticking to what they know, what is safe. The 'quest' fantasy, romance novels, mystery/crime novels and perhaps the most insidious one of current times, the spec fic chick lit. All of them are just rehash of the same old same old, but they're on the market and selling because that's what the public wants.

Cheers, Lisa.

red lantern · Oct 21, 2007

The 'quest' is a major theme in fantasy writing; its almost part of the plumbing. I have read several how-to-write-fantasy books that spend pages of detail on quest development. As others have said it is popular and people love reading that sort of thing, with a few appropriate twists thrown in (the good wizard turns out to be a cannibal for example)

Perhaps a genre re-think is in order, but to what. No quest or journey what does the protagonist do?? A quest with a difference?

Shweta · Oct 21, 2007

Um, I don't think this is quite true.
The quest is a major theme in one subset of fantasy writing. There is a lot of other fantasy out there; there really is more to it than Raymond Feist, Terry Goodkind, Robert Jordan, and David Eddings.

It's also something Diana Wynne Jones parodies beautifully in The Tough Guide to Fantasyland and Dark Lord of Derkholm. With very good reason.

ETA: As for what the protagonist does without a quest, they can fall in love, come of age, usurp a kindgom, inherit, avoid inheriting, solve a magical mystery, steal from the rich, protect others, come to grips with their past, do their job...

red lantern · Oct 21, 2007

Shweta said:
Um, I don't think this is quite true.
The quest is a major theme in one subset of fantasy writing. There is a lot of other fantasy out there; there really is more to it than Raymond Feist, Terry Goodkind, Robert Jordan, and David Eddings.

My apologies, you are quite correct. My fantasy reading has been narrow of late and I am a fan of the 'quest' or 'incredible journey' type so I forget that their is more than that out there than just what I read. I sort of get involved in the whole 'quest' idea and I think of it more than a physical journey, the protagonist is on a quest to become more than he/she is now rather than just going to slay a dragon or kill wizard. I must learn to be less vague.

mscelina · Oct 21, 2007

ETA: As for what the protagonist does without a quest, they can fall in love, come of age, usurp a kindgom, inherit, avoid inheriting, solve a magical mystery, steal from the rich, protect others, come to grips with their past, do their job...

but these are all quests. There are multiple levels of questing.

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This quest

noun
1. a search for an alternative that meets cognitive criteria; "the pursuit of love"; "life is more than the pursuance of fame"; "a quest for wealth" [syn: pursuit]
2. the act of searching for something; "a quest for diamonds"

verb
1. make a search (for); "Things that die with their eyes open and questing"; "The animal came questing through the forest"
2. search the trail of (game); "The dog went off and quested"
3. bark with prolonged noises, of dogs [syn: bay]
4. seek alms, as for religious purposes
5. express the need or desire for; ask for; "She requested an extra bed in her room"; "She called for room service" [syn: request]

Are they the standard epic fantasy quests? No. However, even in some of that quest fantasy the real 'quest' is more internal, more emotional than the ostensible take the ring to mount doom extravaganza.

To Quest Or Not To Quest

Going home!

Agony is defeat

Going home!

Beware of the Thorns!

How novel.

It's probably a tumour

Court Jester

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

Going home!

Going home!

It's a doggy dog world

It's a doggy dog world

has finally arrived

Ribbed for your pleasure.

gone

It's probably a tumour

gone

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you