I'm new here and just started using the "search" function. After reading the strings on first novel length I now understand why I've gotten seven rejections. The first line in the query tells them it's 266,000 words. Any interest dies immediately. All stop, where's the SASE? No publisher in his right mind would even consider it. Okay, the question now is whether to break a non-starter contemporary fantasy tome into two more svelte books or to sharpen the hatchet and leave a trail of blood knocking it back to 120,000 words. Of course there's always the chance that I'm a lousy writer, but how would they know? Odds are they never even read the synopsis. You guys are great! I was about to toss two years of writing into the cyber recycling bin.
Ah haa! The answer I was looking for.
- Thread starter Inukshuk
- Start date
- Status
Inukshuk!Only you can answer the above. Take a deep breath and look at your magnum opus with fresh eyes. Is it two self contained books? Is it one bloated book?
I'd recommend the "Learn Writing with Uncle Jim" thread. It can help you answer those questions.
And everyone rep the Noob for reading before posting!!!
Welcome to the board and I'm glad you were able to find what you needed. 
Yes, a word count that high is a killer. Still, congratulations on finishing a novel!
Yes, a word count that high is a killer. Still, congratulations on finishing a novel!
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 937
- Reaction score
- 248
Wow...266,000???? My mind boggles.
Well, from the stance of "I have never published anything and am not an expert" I guess my only question would be, can it be 2 novels? Is it one long quest, a lot of sub plots, or you wrote a whole series and forgot to make a note to yourself?
Either way you have some serious editing to do in the near future. If you split it, you are going to have to untangle everything at a certain point, and make sure all subplots and 1 main plot are resolved (roughly). If you chop it...well... if you have a good story, you really shouldn't be able to chop over half of it and have it still make sense. Soo... I guess I vote for the first one!
good luck and welcome to the cooler!
ETA: I second Soccermom on the repping for reading. Lord knows how many unnecessary threads I have started because I didn't read the stickies.
Well, from the stance of "I have never published anything and am not an expert" I guess my only question would be, can it be 2 novels? Is it one long quest, a lot of sub plots, or you wrote a whole series and forgot to make a note to yourself?
Either way you have some serious editing to do in the near future. If you split it, you are going to have to untangle everything at a certain point, and make sure all subplots and 1 main plot are resolved (roughly). If you chop it...well... if you have a good story, you really shouldn't be able to chop over half of it and have it still make sense. Soo... I guess I vote for the first one!
good luck and welcome to the cooler!
ETA: I second Soccermom on the repping for reading. Lord knows how many unnecessary threads I have started because I didn't read the stickies.
- Joined
- May 10, 2005
- Messages
- 5,329
- Reaction score
- 794
- Location
- Boca Raton - Mouth of the Rat
- Website
- beyondtourism.wordpress.com
Chop it down to one stand alone book. If what you chopped out will make another book then start writing.
Hey, kid, welcome from an old-timer of two months...
My first historical was about that size after four rewrites in two years. I came to the same conclusion as you after about 15 rejects, got away from the book for a year, and came back with a new approach.
I found that I had been writing every story point that came to mind, rather than getting choosy about what was essential to the story. In the next rewrite I cut it by more than half. It being a historical, that was somewhat acceptable. It's still a WIP.
Now, unless your fantasy has the makings of a Frank Herbert Dune epic, I recommend you follow the advice above.
BTW, you're to be commended for hanging in there for two years. Keep at it.
My first historical was about that size after four rewrites in two years. I came to the same conclusion as you after about 15 rejects, got away from the book for a year, and came back with a new approach.
I found that I had been writing every story point that came to mind, rather than getting choosy about what was essential to the story. In the next rewrite I cut it by more than half. It being a historical, that was somewhat acceptable. It's still a WIP.
Now, unless your fantasy has the makings of a Frank Herbert Dune epic, I recommend you follow the advice above.
BTW, you're to be commended for hanging in there for two years. Keep at it.
Cut it and polish it. When you're taken out absolutely everything that you can, and it's as tight as you can get it, if it's still over 150,000... split it into two novels. But chances are that it won't be.
The bigger question is, how would you know?
And the answers are:
1) Beta readers, and/or
2) A novel workshop, and/or
3) Show Your Work on a forum here for a critique.
Just to give you a clue, standards have changed. 50-60 k used to be fine for fisrt novels, and people started getting twitchy as you pushed past 80k. There are now some publishers who won't look at anything shorter than 80k. Nowadays
60-80 k: reasonable, maybe too short for some genres
80-100: the sweet spot for most
100-120: a "big" book for most debut novelsits
120-180: Stephen King country, sketchy for most debuts, but but okay for some fantasy novels
180k+: Well, it's not impossible. And neither is winning the lottery. (See ORION's recent novel. No, it's not 180k+. It's about winning the lottery.)
The underlying problem is assessing how "big" your story is. Is it a 100k sotry massively overpadded, or do you really have a trilogy that needs to be fleshed out? The only way to tell is have people read it...
And--let me put on my asbestos suit here, as I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this--you don't have to tell agents how long it is in the query. If they read a partial and they are desperately, achingly passionate to see more after reading the first three chapters, you have learned something very important--and they may help you decide how to parse it. On the other hand, if they aren't gripped by the first three, it's quite likely you need to haul out the old machete...
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 25,582
- Reaction score
- 3,787
- Location
- New Hampshire
- Website
- madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Write a new novel of 80,000 words. Sell that. When the editor asks "Do you have anything else?" whip out the 266K volume.
Excellent suggestions all. Since you’ve taken the time to provide them the least I can do is give you the reason the book went to 266,000 words. It was pure hedonism. I write when I have the time and the interest or stumble on a plot I like. Since I started writing seriously in the late 80’s I’ve appeared in print ten times, always in magazines, selling all but one submission. I got solidly hooked by fiction when my first short story bagged a hefty check, a two-part run, fan mail and an autograph request. Three more followed for other publications. In the process I discovered that the manic world of the magazine editor is a constant battle with time and space. To get into this world I learned to craft a story to fit their word limits and the interests of their subscribers. The background they know has to ring true. Characters must come alive within a few sentences after their entrance and by the end of the first page they have to have full control of the reader’s interest and empathy. Plots develop fast, twist and end just as quickly. When I decided to indulge myself and write a novel, I did it to fill the endless nights while traveling on business. Its sole purpose was personal entertainment and a means to escape daily reality. The luxury of space to develop characters and plot was intoxicating. I loved it. Then, somewhere during a rewrite, the manuscript got into the hands of a few local college lit people with a passion for fantasy. Some of their criticism was great, prompting changes; some not (Okay, there’s no quest and no magic sword. Get over it!). The worst was the suggestion to have it published, which prompted a serious lapse in judgment on my part to make the attempt without researching things more thoroughly. That’s quickly changing after finding this website. Obviously I ended up with a Mack truck when I needed a Ferrari. So, I'm off to consider the options. Your encouragement and willingness to share your experience is appreciated. 30
Inukshuk;
First of all, congrats on finishing the novel. If you are only writing for the enjoyment of writing it, good for you. If you would like to consider getting it published, you came to the right place. The people here really know what they are talking about. Some of us, including myself, are published while others are getting close. We all have our own experiences down the publishing road. Just having 7 rejections so far is actually pretty good. I've had a lot more with my first two books and even more than that with my unpublished piece still waiting.
I love writing the longer pieces because they do allow you more space to develop the characters and make them more realistic. I don't quite write novels yet so hearing 266K is very astonishing for me. Don't sell yourself short. You could be a very good writer. You could be sitting on a masterpiece right now, who knows. The only way to tell is to edit and have people read it. You already have some experience in writing so you have one leg up on some of us here. Short Stories for magazines are very different than novels but they can help a novelist with the writing technique and grammar.
Take a quick break from this story and go back to it with a fresh mind. Read it all the way through without editing. Now go back and edit. Can this story be tightened? Can it be turned into 2 books or one shorter book? At this point it is really up to you. If you aren't serious about getting it published, then taking the time to edit the piece may be a waste of your time so think about it for a few days.
Until then, welcome to AW and I hope you will gain a lot of knowledge here and friends that may make a difference for you! Have fun with your writing!
Amber
First of all, congrats on finishing the novel. If you are only writing for the enjoyment of writing it, good for you. If you would like to consider getting it published, you came to the right place. The people here really know what they are talking about. Some of us, including myself, are published while others are getting close. We all have our own experiences down the publishing road. Just having 7 rejections so far is actually pretty good. I've had a lot more with my first two books and even more than that with my unpublished piece still waiting.
I love writing the longer pieces because they do allow you more space to develop the characters and make them more realistic. I don't quite write novels yet so hearing 266K is very astonishing for me. Don't sell yourself short. You could be a very good writer. You could be sitting on a masterpiece right now, who knows. The only way to tell is to edit and have people read it. You already have some experience in writing so you have one leg up on some of us here. Short Stories for magazines are very different than novels but they can help a novelist with the writing technique and grammar.
Take a quick break from this story and go back to it with a fresh mind. Read it all the way through without editing. Now go back and edit. Can this story be tightened? Can it be turned into 2 books or one shorter book? At this point it is really up to you. If you aren't serious about getting it published, then taking the time to edit the piece may be a waste of your time so think about it for a few days.
Until then, welcome to AW and I hope you will gain a lot of knowledge here and friends that may make a difference for you! Have fun with your writing!
Amber
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2007
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 49
Another thought is to set it aside and move on to book 2. I definitely know people who wrote really long and cut, or cleaved into 2 books (CL Wilson, our own Aprilynne). For *me* I was pretty sure I'd never publish my first attempt. And so I was pretty quick to shelve it after it didn't sell because I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-working a book that had a lesser chance of selling. Instead, I chalked book 1 (and 2) up to learning how to write a book and, incidentally, sold book 3.
Plus, as James said, hook the agent with a more marketable book and then show them what else you've got.
But congrats on a great accomplishment and welcome!!
Plus, as James said, hook the agent with a more marketable book and then show them what else you've got.
But congrats on a great accomplishment and welcome!!
- Status