Important Solos

III said:

Almost gone are the day of the important guitar solo. Not "important" as in "an important part of the song" or as in "self-important", but important as in a solo that carves a scar in the face of Music.

For example, Erruption by Eddie VanHalen or Stairway to Heaven by Jimmy Page or Freebird by Skynyrd. Solos that made an emotional and technical statement that became iconic. (I'll let you guys have the fun of listing more.)...

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First thing that comes to mind is the lead in the Journey song "Lights" (that for some reason I always thought was titled "City Lights" until I just now tried looking it up). The lead guitar adds a little extra intensity to an otherwise still good but rather laid-back song.

Pink Floyd comes to mind with "Comfortably Numb" which has TWO guitar solos, as I recall it fades out on the second solo. Floyd has also done memorable saxophone solos, such as in "Money" and "Us and Them."

Steely Dan comes to mind, not because of any specific solos or anything, but just because Steely Dan comes to mind...

I'm biased but...

What about Brian May's solo towards the end of Bohemian Rhapsody?

Oh heck, I'm an odd duck. I can't respect any pop or rock song that doesn't include a guitar solo.

*sigh* Remember when even pop songs had guitar solos? David Bowie's stuff is just full of really good guitar solos. He attracts genius-guitarists the way I attract losers. Even Michael Jackson made good use of Eddie Van Halen's talent. Oh and what about Prince?

I miss guitar solos. Not just the important ones. I miss guitar solos. And I'm choosing to blame grunge. Even though some grunge songs have guitar solos. Grunge just makes a handy scapegoat.

I can't think of specific examples for some reason, maybe because I just got up.

But I'm sure Frank Zappa belongs on this list. There's one piece that I can almost remember the name of, but damnit, it escapes me.

RG570 said:

I can't think of specific examples for some reason, maybe because I just got up.

But I'm sure Frank Zappa belongs on this list. There's one piece that I can almost remember the name of, but damnit, it escapes me.

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Watermelon in Easter Hay, from Joe's Garage, would be a prime example. It was a spoof of Nazareth's Rose in the Heather, yet 100 times better than Rose in the Heather -- which is pretty much what sets a genius like Zappa apart from say,Weird Al Yankovitch.

And then there's Lonesome Electric Turkey. Can't forget that one.

I vote for Han Solo.

Ted Nugent's solo with that beautiful long sustained note in "Stranglehold."

Tommy Bolin's guitar solo in Billy Cobham's "Quadrant 4." Just insane.

Tony Iommi's guitar solo in "War Pigs." He opens with a composed thematic idea which draws upon the dominant notes of the bridge melody, using the E Mixolydian mode (E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D) against a low E string pedal tone. Notice especially the sweet, bright quality of the G# (major 3rd). Sorry.

And as I think of more, I'll post those.

Nolita said:

*sigh* Remember when even pop songs had guitar solos? David Bowie's stuff is just full of really good guitar solos. He attracts genius-guitarists the way I attract losers.

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*sighs* It just annoys me that people consider David Bowie's stuff as "pop." When he first came out he was the bleeding edge of glam or glitter rock, androgynous and totally scary to parents.

Now he's that nice David guy.

benbradley said:

Steely Dan comes to mind, not because of any specific solos or anything, but just because Steely Dan comes to mind...

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Reeling in the Years.

One that does me in is Santana's Samba Pa Ti from Abraxas. I spent weeks trying to learn that song and never could get it right, even after I'd finally figured out the notes. But what an education it was working on it.

benbradley said:

Steely Dan comes to mind, not because of any specific solos or anything, but just because Steely Dan comes to mind...

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I immediately think of Larry Carlton's wonderful solo on "Kid Charlemagne."

Effin' A, bubba! There are so many tasty treats like that on Steely Dan albums. That's it, I'm listenin' to Can't Buy A Thrill on the way home tonight.

Shadow_Ferret said:

.*sighs* It just annoys me that people consider David Bowie's stuff as "pop." When he first came out he was the bleeding edge of glam or glitter rock, androgynous and totally scary to parents.
Now he's that nice David guy.

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He did it to himself. First he stopped being scary(in general, though he does a chilling rendition of Alabama Song), then he went and got his teeth fixed.

Tin Machine rocked though.

But then maybe I was in Brit-newscaster mode. They call everything pop. They called Cream pop. Wonder if they called Judas Priest "pop"?

At any rate his Thin White Duke phase was very pop. Heck he even said at some point he was just doing it for the money. But he's Bowie. Just cuz he says it doesn't mean it's true.

And? Beautiful men in dresses frighten you? Stay away from The Castro come Halloween night. I repeat "Stay away from The Castro come Halloween night".

Nolita said:

At any rate his Thin White Duke phase was very pop. Heck he even said at some point he was just doing it for the money. But he's Bowie. Just cuz he says it doesn't mean it's true.

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Three words: Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Speaking of Bowie ... the opening guitar part in Rebel Rebel has all the elements Jay was talking about in the first post of this thread. When I think about when that song came out in 1974, it was definitely not 'pop'. According to Billboard.com, the top five songs that year were:

#1 The Way We Were (Barbara Streisand)
#2 Seasons in the Sun (Terry Jacks)
#3 Love's Theme (Love Unlimited Orchestra)
#4 Come and Get Your Love (Redbone)
#5 Dancing Machine (Jackson 5)

Bowie was the personification of anti-pop at the time.

ETA: link to a sample of the tune on Amazon. And looky-looky, you can get the whole album as MP3 files now. Wow.

I know Stevie Ray Vaughan played on Let's Dance. Furthermore Reeves Gabrels(who I really like but can be an acquired taste) played with Tin Machine and on other Bowie projects. Mick Ronson pretty much started it all.

That's why I said he attracts great guitarists(God I can't even quote myself properly). But during his Thin White Duke phase he was putting out a pop persona. Wasn't being threatening and a song like Modern Love is very poppy.

Honestly Bowie's one of my faves. But he doesn't rock so hard anymore. Certainly not between Young Americans(just my opinion but that's an R&B album) and Tin Machine(that rocked really hard).

I know I left some cracks in that list. The guy's put out a slew of albums.

But why is pop such a dirty word? Is it because it's short for popular and that which is popular pays the bills and then some? I mean, look at a short list of pop stars over the decades. Erase Britney Spears from your memory(temporarily E! Entertainment Television will soon put her right back where she was). Short list...

Let's see -- Frank Sinatra, Elvis(yeah practically helped invent Rock and Roll but when you have that many little girls screaming you're pop baby), and The Beatles(see Elvis). That's intentionally excluding Bowie.

Obviously we can argue that Frank Sinatra's jazz. But he is also pop, a popular icon, and the God incarnate of the bobby soxers. We can argue that Elvis practically is Rock and Roll(see Frank Sinatra). We know the Beatles are a legendary Rock band but again(see Elvis). I know how to use proper-past tense and choose not to when it involves art okay?

Oh almost forgot. Don't listen to Reality if you're a stickler for excellent lyrics. One that sticks in my mind is "The girls would turn the color of a juicy avocado when he would drive down their street in his El Dorado". I guess he should get some points for finding a way to rhyme avocado though.

Oh and here's my favorite flamenco/metal fusion act: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-lvMQCmUVv8

Don't know what they have to do with the thread. Just sharing and the music should brighten your day, or night, whichever .

No,
Re: the "pop" debate.
Listen, you're talking to the guy who wrote the book. Literally. My last book is subtitled "The 7500 Most Important Songs of the Rock and Roll Era, 1944-2000." First I had to define "rock," then "era" then "important." I felt a little like Big Bill Clinton. Of course, some minds may differ, but that's what makes a great argument.

Pop is frowned upon because that is the music of the masses. Pop music is the equivalent of say, "The Dukes of Hazzard" on TV, or Dan Brown in literature, or Thomas Kinkaid in art.

It appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Yes, on occasion great music becomes pop, but that's not the norm.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Pop is frowned upon because that is the music of the masses. Pop music is the equivalent of say, "The Dukes of Hazzard" on TV, or Dan Brown in literature, or Thomas Kinkaid in art.

It appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Yes, on occasion great music becomes pop, but that's not the norm.

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I think "pop" is last year's underground with the rough edges smoothed out.

Oh, yes. It has to come from somewhere. A lot of pop is copied and transformed and watered down. Just like any trend. It starts one place and then pretty soon everyone is on that bandwagon.

Again, to use a movie analogy, when one genre has a hit, then the next big thing is tons of movies within that genre, all hoping to duplicate that success.

Good point, Shadow. Knife-edged punk, for example, evolved into top 40 New Wave. Hard to believe The Sex Pistols and their ilk were the progenitors of artists like Adam Ant, but it happened.

Hey! I like early Adam and The Ants! It's sardonic and catchy at the same time. Sure later on it went to heck in a hand basket, but admit it. You shake your booty to Goody Two Shoes when nobody's looking. Admit it .

Okay so teasing a bit, but nothing wrong with a catchy hook.

You'll think I'm nuts but I always preferred The Clash to The Sex Pistols. Who am I kidding? You already think I'm guano-loco.

Still, not comprehending what's so dreadful about pop. Or The Dukes of Hazzard for that matter. I figure it's all good. I mean, as long as you're not listening to Duran Duran and expecting to hear Chopin, or watching The Dukes of Hazzard and hoping to see Masterpiece Theater; then no-harm/no-foul.

Thomas Kinkaid paintings make me gag. Not because they're popular or targeted at the lowest common denominator(as if I'd know). Just because I don't like them. Personal aesthetic. They're all soft-focus. They make me feel like I need Lassik or something. But I am a fan of Pop Surrealism and at one point it was called Lowbrow Art.

To be completely honest, I've never understood the attraction some people have for Jackson Pollock. To me it looks like he fed a pigeon some Ex-Lax then squeezed. I understand there's deeper meaning, but I can't get past my own personal reaction. Ya know? Still, his is considered fine art. To each their own I guess.

Let's call this chapter two since I'm prone to writing long posts(fast typist so it doesn't count)...

I honestly don't hate any particular genre of music. Does it make me a freak? Sure I can't stomach Shania Twain or Faith Hill for very long(too saccharine sweet for my taste). But I do like their voices(weird right?). Never loved Brit-Brit but can't help appreciating Christina Aguilera's songs, moxie, and pipes. Dang that girl can sing.

Weirder situation, the late 80's hair band thing. I liked Poison and Nelson. I knew they weren't really Metal. Once you listen to Black Sabbath you're not confusing Nelson with Metal. Poison was just catchy as hell and fun(hey I was a 13 year old girl, was allowed to like Poison, if you were 20 and male, might have to worry about you). Nelson on the other hand had and still have terrific harmony(kind of have to, they're brothers and somehow siblings can muster fantastic harmonies, it has to have something to do with their being related/growing up together; they just blend so well).

I'm a sucker for harmonies. Guess that's a given, what with my love of The Beach Boys and The Mamas and The Papas. Hey more weirdness. Finishing up kind of full circle. What with the California sound + harmonies. I've never seen an episode of The OC and I still love this song http://youtube.com/watch?v=oNRs0RM3EEE

Dunno if it's pop(hey there's a melody and you can understand the lyrics but that doesn't have to imply pop).

Yeah I'll just leave it dangling.

I agree there's nothing wrong with a good pop tune with a wicked hook and great harmonies. Can you say Stacey's Mom? I knew you could. I love that song.

Another tune that I could groove on all day is the song that runs over the first part of the end credits in the movie That Thing You Do: I Need You (That Thing You Do). The rhythm guitar part just slays me. I dug the music in that movie so much that I bought the soundtrack. Not coincidentally, the dude who wrote three of the songs for That Thing You Do (but not that particular one) is one of the guys in Fountains of Wayne; Adam Schlesinger. I really dig his and their pop sensibilities.

The stuff I can't stand is junk like that skank from The Pussycat Dolls is putting out (Nicole somethingorother?). That's just mindless tripe. It's the musical equivalent of junk food.

OOO, I found I Need You (That Thing You Do) on youtube! Just scroll the video off the screen, it's from a soap opera and has nothing to do with the song.

Great song and fun movie. Song passes my personal test. I'm no expert but I really feel like if a song holds up to different styles/arrangements it's a quality song...

Here's the Shakka Labbits version. Warning only click if you don't mind super-sweet Japanese girl voices. Lead singer's wearing a super-cute Gothic Lolita outfit(I know it's not about looks, but this is gravy).

Oh but I like the original song in this The Oneders better than the cover and the Soap Opera(there's talking in that one).

Dug and found one with good sound(what's with the sucky fan-vids having better sound than the original videos?)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNhn5Z3qvac