ian ranking doesnt outline

nevada · Oct 19, 2007

Let's hear it for the pantsers. I have such a hard time outlining. I normally wing it, but for the latest I wrote a rough outline and it's already bugging me. So i feel a little better that Ian Rankin doesn't outline. One of my fav authors writes 50 to 60 page outlines, so I somehow thought I maybe should. But I don't. Lesson learned. I need to do what I need to do. Not what works for someone else.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainment/EntertainmentNewsArticle.htm?src=e101961A.xml

The Lady · Oct 19, 2007

My muse makes me outline. Then rolls around laughing at the outline. What a muse.

veinglory · Oct 19, 2007

I think there is a difference between writing down an outline and having a plan. I would guess the main elements of his books are planned in advance? Otherwise he is the Mother of all Pantzers.

nevada · Oct 19, 2007

i dont know, veinglory. I'm just thinking that if you only have a "fair" idea of who the murderer might be by the end of the first draft, you don't have much of a plan. lol

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 19, 2007

Rankin. Wasn't he part of the team that made Frosty the Snowman and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer?

JBI · Oct 19, 2007

Dostoevsky and Tolstoy both outlined. As did Joyce.

CheshireCat · Oct 19, 2007

And we begin our monthly (or is it weekly now?) debate of the merits of outlining or not.

Whatever works for you works for you.

There is no right or wrong, there is only what is right or wrong for you.

Seriously.

PeeDee · Oct 19, 2007

In an ideal world, CCat would have the last word in this thread (er, except for me muttering that CCat should have the last word in this thread). It really is that simple. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Just Me 2021 · Oct 19, 2007

I think we share the same muse. Does your muse also lead you to the pantry for an "inspirational snack" whenever you hit writer's block?

nevada · Oct 19, 2007

Just Me 2021 said:
I think we share the same muse. Does your muse also lead you to the pantry for an "inspirational snack" whenever you hit writer's block?

Damn straight. M&M's and Lay's lightly salted potato chips. Not at the same time.

CCat gets to have the last word cause her avatar is the bestest.

I didnt want to start a debate. i just wanted to say neener neener to outliners.

lol

PeeDee · Oct 19, 2007

Cause THAT'S not going to start a war or anything. :tongue

Soccer Mom · Oct 19, 2007

Doh! A week early.

Did someone say neener to the outliners?

rops feet on 41 page outline:

If Moses had an outline, the trip would've taken a week. Ten days tops. So there.

PeeDee · Oct 19, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
Doh! A week early.

Did someone say neener to the outliners?

rops feet on 41 page outline:

If Moses had an outline, the trip would've taken a week. Ten days tops. So there.

Oh. oh. I don't even outline, but...I think Soccer Mom just won, just with that last line. Wow.

ETA: Won the thread, obviously, and not any sort of other contest, I should emphasize.

Soccer Mom · Oct 19, 2007

Make sure the tea is securely packaged.

That is all.

GerriB · Oct 20, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
Doh! A week early.

Did someone say neener to the outliners?

rops feet on 41 page outline:

If Moses had an outline, the trip would've taken a week. Ten days tops. So there.

Aaa-men, Aaa-men, A-men, A-men.....

*cheers on Soccer Mom*

*adds her 30ish page outline to the stack*

GerriB · Oct 20, 2007

Another grouse...

Why do so many people assume that organic, i.e. sit and spew, is the natural way to write, and outlining is unnatural? To you who believe so, ttthhhwwwpppttt.

I can't sit and spew. I've tried. No can do. I can't even go on a sketchy outline. I need a thorough outline with almost all my points down on paper at several points. Not want, not would like...Need.

For my current project, I'm doing a huge amount of worldbuilding, and because of that worldbuilding, my outline has grown and taken on new depth. Once I'm done with the spew outline (spewing out my ideas), I'll do a scene outline and then break it down into plot, character, and theme to make sure I incorporate all the layers. This way, I'm not missing anything when I go to write.

Outlining saves me a lot of time in the revision and editing process. Organic writers need to spend the time that I spend outlining in their revision process. For me, it's easier to measure twice and cut once.

Your milage may vary. But please don't insist that we all take the same route.

Good luck!

gp101 · Oct 20, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
If Moses had an outline, the trip would've taken a week. Ten days tops. So there.

That... is so cool.

I hope you sell many, many books and become a touring writing guru that Robert McKee shudders to think about, if for nothing else, so you can perform those three lines to a hall of people.

LeeFlower · Oct 20, 2007

These threads tend to be almost comically repetitive: "Outlining sucks!" "Does not!" "Does Too!" "Dan Brown agrees with me!" "Well he sucks too!" "Uh, guys, do we really have to argue about this? Again?" "Fine-- let's move on. All good writers know that outlines suck anyway." "Do not!" [...].

But I have to say: Soccer Mom, you totally just won the internet today. Tubes, dump-truck, and all. Would you like them gift-wrapped?

nevada · Oct 20, 2007

GerriB said:
Another grouse...

Why do so many people assume that organic, i.e. sit and spew, is the natural way to write, and outlining is unnatural? To you who believe so, ttthhhwwwpppttt.

Can't help it. I'm a natural spewer. Starbucks Frappucinos lately have brought forth much spewing. :e2coffee:

I must stop drinking those.

In all seriousness, I can totally see that outlining makes life so much easier. But I just can't do it. I've tried. And of course, worldbuilding totally changes everythign. you cant just make that stuff up as you go along.

I never meant to say one was better than the other. Just neener neener, Im not the only one who doesn't. LOL

mirrorkisses · Oct 20, 2007

I don't outline. But I don't write by the seat of my pants either. As someone said up there, you can have a plan without writing it down.
I have tried several times (and failed) at doing outlines. I usually veer off the original outline and I never know how my story is going to end when I start out anyway. A LOT of times I even put in subplots that I don't realize are there until I'm knee-deep in writing. (A good thing, of course.)

Outlining in the idea of knowing how many pages per chapter, per scene, when things will happen, etc., is a good thing for me, but I never outline my story because I'd have to spend just as much time re-writing it as I do writing the actual story.

mirrorkisses · Oct 20, 2007

nevada said:
I never meant to say one was better than the other. Just neener neener, Im not the only one who doesn't. LOL

I would actually really like to be able to outline. It seems really great in idea, but in practice (for me) it just doesn't work. I can't stick to an outline.

Memnon624 · Oct 20, 2007

*plops his 37 page outline on the table*

I don't like outlining, but my editor makes me. Seriously. I sent him the standard 10 pager and he sent it back saying he wanted more detail. As he signs the checks, I felt obliged to comply

Rankin may not 'officially' outline, but I bet a gallon of SoccerMom's tea that he does something prior to starting.

Scott

mirrorkisses · Oct 20, 2007

Just Me 2021 said:
I think we share the same muse. Does your muse also lead you to the pantry for an "inspirational snack" whenever you hit writer's block?

I also don't get writer's block. I have times where I need to rest and think about where my story is going, but I'm always coming up with ideas. Every since I started keeping a writing journal (Where i jot down ideas whenever the come to me, or things I like from tv, radio, or snippets of conversation) I haven't had wb once.

I also read in a writing book a long time ago (the name slips me but it's a really good book) that writer's block is just being lazy. I kind of have to agree. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

PeeDee · Oct 20, 2007

Well, YOU suck! thbhbbhbhbhbhbbb. Dan Brown agrees with me over dinner!

I set my watches by threads like these.

LeeFlower said:
These threads tend to be almost comically repetitive: "Outlining sucks!" "Does not!" "Does Too!" "Dan Brown agrees with me!" "Well he sucks too!" "Uh, guys, do we really have to argue about this? Again?" "Fine-- let's move on. All good writers know that outlines suck anyway." "Do not!" [...].

But I have to say: Soccer Mom, you totally just won the internet today. Tubes, dump-truck, and all. Would you like them gift-wrapped?

mirrorkisses · Oct 20, 2007

I don't read dan brown so..... there?

hehe

ian ranking doesnt outline

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