Writing a narrative in one language, but having bits of dialogue in another? Help!!!

dragoon_elf · Oct 17, 2007

I'm writing a language that is in English, but I have scenes where my main character, whos been living on her own, goes home to her family.

For my character, I have already given her background. It's unrealistic for her to NOT talk to her parents in her original language (which isn't english). How do I write the scenes?

Do I just write the dialogue parts in that second language? Do I pre-empt the scenes by writing something like "They spoke in their language of ____. But the following is an english translation."

I have never seen this explored anywhere. I need some help. What would some of you suggest? I'm gonna be sending this novel to agents so this is something I'm concerned about, presentation-wise.

blacbird · Oct 17, 2007

Don't make this a bigger problem than it is, which really isn't much. A simple mention, within the context of the story, that the parents know no English, and perhaps a minor dollop of the old-country language, like a greeting, which would be known to most readers or at least obvious in context. A reader will understand and accept that, though rendered in English for purposes of the story, the dialogue is actually taking place in the other language.

caw

Wraith · Oct 17, 2007

In books I've read, the language is usually implied. In a foreign setting the dialogues would be written in English (but the reader knows they're speaking the other language), or mentioned briefly, mainly where language matters (I've seen this done where there were characters of different nationalities - like, 'he turned and whispered to her in fast Spanish'). I've also seen dialogue scenes with scattered foreign fragments - the most common expressions, hellos, interesting bits (Clavell does this a lot as I recall).

The 'English translation' thing doesn't sound oright to me - it could get the reader out of the story, and besides, it can be implied that it's a translation by simply mentioning the original language.

My personal advice would be to only mention it if it's relevant to the scene. Otherwise it's perfect just knowing where the dialogue takes place, imo. I've no experience writing stuff like this, but as a reader, that's what seems most natural to me.

And

to AW!

Joe Moore · Oct 17, 2007

Like Blacbird said, make it easy on yourself. Here's an example:

"Thanks, again," Betty said to the taxi driver. She walked up the steps of her old home. Her mother came out to greet her. In German, Betty said, "It's so good to see you, mom."

Good luck.

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

The three of them are absolutely right. Just go simple with it. Otherwise it gets weird.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2007

She spoke to her parents in Spanish, "I hate you both."

And once you establish the fact that she always speaks with her parent in Spanish, you don't have to say it again. The readers get it.

I think a bit of in context foreign language is fine, such as "Bonjour, how are you today, sir?" But if the dialogue is going to be entirely in a different language you're writing in English, it's better to use English with a set up that they're actually speaking in another language.

I do that a lot with my current WIP -- my characters speak many different languages depending on the group: English, Japanese, Chinese, Malay, etc. The key is clarity.

Also, it depends on the point of view character. For example, my POV character doesn't understand Japanese, so it would be silly to write out the Japanese dialogue in English. Instead, I either write the dialogue as Japanese, or say something like "they yelled in Japanese."

clockwatcher · Oct 17, 2007

I do two things. The second is just a variation of the first.

First:

"What time is it?" she asked in French.

Then that sets the mood for the entire scene.

Or

"Quelle heure est-il?"
Joanne looked at her watch. "It's 5 o'clock," she replied in French.

dragoon_elf · Oct 17, 2007

Joe Moore said:
Like Blacbird said, make it easy on yourself. Here's an example:

"Thanks, again," Betty said to the taxi driver. She walked up the steps of her old home. Her mother came out to greet her. In German, Betty said, "It's so good to see you, mom."

Good luck.

This is perfect but I have dialogue between the characters that span several chapters.

clockwatcher · Oct 17, 2007

dragoon_elf said:
This is perfect but I have dialogue between the characters that span several chapters.

I think that if you just establish early on that she never speaks English at home, then the reader assumes that all the coversations with her family are in their native tongue.

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

clockwatcher said:
Or

"Quelle heure est-il?"
Joanne looked at her watch. "It's 5 o'clock," she replied in French.

I do that sometimes, and I love it, but only if it's a scene where people are going back and forth between languages. For example, he doesn't fluently speak English, so sometimes he says something brokenly in English, other lines he says something in fluent french.

"Quelle heure est-il?" The old man stubbed out his cigarette, repeated, "Please, what is your time?" it gives an indication of his language abilities, and I like the tone it sets. I don't do it often, though.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2007

PeeDee said:
I do that sometimes, and I love it, but only if it's a scene where people are going back and forth between languages. For example, he doesn't fluently speak English, so sometimes he says something brokenly in English, other lines he says something in fluent french.

"Quelle heure est-il?" The old man stubbed out his cigarette, repeated, "Please, what is your time?" it gives an indication of his language abilities, and I like the tone it sets. I don't do it often, though.

And if the following section of dialogue is going to be in French, I'd prefer this:

"Quelle heure est-il?" he said.
Joanne looked at her watch. It was five o'clock. "C'est cinq heures."
They began to speak French to each other.
"It's interesting to see an American who speaks French," he said.
"I was born in Quebec."

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2007

dragoon_elf said:
This is perfect but I have dialogue between the characters that span several chapters.

Like I said, once you establish they speak the language at home, you don't have to keep reminding the readers. You can now use English in your dialogue and the readers will get it.

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

maestrowork said:
And if the following section of dialogue is going to be in French, I'd prefer this:

"Quelle heure est-il?" he said.
Joanne looked at her watch. It was five o'clock. "C'est cinq heures."
They began to speak French to each other.
"It's interesting to see an American who speaks French," he said.
"I was born in Quebec."

That works for me except the line They began to speak French to each other. I don't think it's needed. And it sounds weird. like beginning a sex scene and then adding They began to talk in low and lusty tones. Weird.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2007

PeeDee said:
That works for me except the line They began to speak French to each other. I don't think it's needed. And it sounds weird. like beginning a sex scene and then adding They began to talk in low and lusty tones. Weird.

I think it's needed (although I admit the line "they began speaking in French" is bad writing...) so that the readers know they are actually speaking in French and not switching to English... again, it's about clarity. How about:

"Quelle heure est-il?" he said.
Joanne looked at her watch. It was five o'clock. "C'est cinq heures."
It was refreshing to speak French again.
"It's interesting to see an American who speaks French," he said.
"I was born in Quebec."

The only thing I would caution is that once you put us into the "English as French" mode, you shouldn't use any French words because that would be very confusing:

"Quelle heure est-il?" he said.
Joanne looked at her watch. It was five o'clock. "C'est cinq heures."
It was refreshing to speak French again.
"It's interesting to see an American who speaks French," he said.
"I was born in Quebec."
"Tres bien, mademoiselle. Have a nice day."

melaniehoo · Oct 17, 2007

I was having this issue not too long ago. I'm working on my memoir and speak some Spanish. I interact with people who speak both English & Spanish and those who only speak Spanish. I'm writing first person so at times I respond in Spanish then put a loose translation as internal dialogue:

"Si, entiendo." I understood what she meant but didn't know what else to say.

Conversations between me and family members who only speak Spanish I write in English. I assume the reader knows it's in Spanish because I say earlier in teh book that none of them speak English. I also make references to getting comfortable saying anything I want in English because no one understands me.

That's something you could try if you want to reinforce the issue - if the MC only speaks another language at home you could show her muttering in English because she knows her folks won't understand.

David I · Oct 17, 2007

>>>Caution: this post contains obscenity.<<<

The languages problem can be fun to play with. If it is a long stretch of dialogue, it may be easiest just to come right out and say it:

As always when alone together, they dropped into Javanese.

Sometimes it's better to offer in-line translation. Not long ago I wrote a scene where an American woman is talking to two Arab men in English, and they don't know she is fluent in Arabic. One of makes a nasty comment. She keeps smiling and playing dumb, but:

Elif air ab tizak, she thought, a thousand dicks up your ass.

And sometimes it's okay to leave it in the foreign language if the meaning is clear. I admit to having done this as a sort of private joke/homage in a scene set in Italy:

Arby felt Concetta tug on his arm, but when Elaina yelled, “Volate via, sciocchi!” the woman released her grip and began running.

The phrase is the Italian for Gandalf's last words in Moria, "Fly, you fools!" If someone reads Italian, they might enjoy the reference; if not, the larger context tells the reader that Elaina has told Concetta to get out of there pronto.

None of this has to be hard. And all of it can be fun. Mix and match as needed and have a good time.

melaniehoo · Oct 17, 2007

I have another scene where I'm with my doctor, who doesn't speak English, and I kept her dialogue in Spanish to show the confusion I felt. My husband is there to translate so her words come through in the course of the conversation.

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

maestrowork said:
"Quelle heure est-il?" he said.
Joanne looked at her watch. It was five o'clock. "C'est cinq heures."
It was refreshing to speak French again.
"It's interesting to see an American who speaks French," he said.
"I was born in Quebec."

Bingo bango, that's a good example. (I agreed with the rest of your post, just cut it to save space.)

I also like David I's post on the matter.

This is interesting. I haven't used a foreign language recently, but this discussion makes me want to.

jenstrikesagain · Oct 17, 2007

I'm for the "Bonjour, how are you today, sir" approach to language to indicate they're speaking French. My novel is set in Latin America, written in English, and the characters speak both English and Spanish. Throwing the occasional Spanish word in there is enough of a reminder that everybody's not speaking English in this story without getting confusing. At least, I hope so.

For a truly novel solution to this issue, check out Joan Vinge's "The Snow Queen" and "The Summer Queen." They're a SF space opera, which isn't really my bag, but the characters change their word order when they switch languages, which is just too cool. If somebody says, "Why feel I that this conversation I have before had?" you know immediately he/she is speaking Sandhi, for example. She even throws a SF equivalent of sign language in there. Awesome.

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

Creepy, I have the Snow Queen sitting on my desk right now. I had just pulled it down to reference the language work for this thread. Weird.

It's also worth pointing out that, although she did it really well (boy did she, what a book The Snow Queen was), there were other books -- I'm thinking of a couple of Star Wars novels I read when I was younger -- where it came off badly and almost incoherent. Changing word order is terrific, unless you wind up sounding like a drunken third-rate Yoda.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2007

Changing sentence structures or style is a good trick, but be careful about making it too complicated or tedious to understand. For example, when I write dialogue in which the characters are speaking in Chinese, I use more formal English without the contractions (there's no such thing as "contraction" in Chinese). I don't necessarily translate the sentence to "Chinglish," which would be tedious to read after a few pages. But the idea is the same -- use a different style of dialogue to denote a different language.

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

I wrote a story I'm really proud of (wonders if I ever put it on AW) called Desperado which was told in first-person point of view by a Mexican man who spoke English well enough. You could tell it wasn't his native language, but not by anything overt. I was so pleased when I sent it to a lady I know, who works for a Mexican-immigrant-populated church, and she told me that I'd gotten it really, really right. I'm still happy aboutit.

Language is a delight for writers. I wish I got to talk about it more.

Shady Lane · Oct 17, 2007

My last MC was billingual...let me find some examples where he's talking in Russian.

“All right,” Sash pleaded, the last of his pride melting away with his English.
--
He turned to Cody and said in Russian, “We’re f*cking incredible. She’s totally buying this. You better know how to fake some Russian.”
--
“I want to lie down,” Sash mumbled in Russian.
Dmitri answered in English. “In a minute.”
--
He nodded. “Come find me in half an hour to check in. Be safe. Любовь.”

That's the only time I actually use a Russian word. Hope I got it right....

melaniehoo · Oct 17, 2007

PeeDee, let me know if you ever need more help with the ESL phenomenon (from Spanish). I live it every day with my husband.

Speaking of changing sentence structure, I've found I sometimes speak English in the Spanish sentence structure. I have to flip my brain back when it's time to write.

jennifer75 · Oct 17, 2007

melaniehoo said:
Speaking of changing sentence structure, I've found I sometimes speak English in the Spanish sentence structure. I have to flip my brain back when it's time to write.

Nouns before adjectives, and stuff? That always gets me.

Writing a narrative in one language, but having bits of dialogue in another? Help!!!

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