Love. Arrrgh!

Wraith · Oct 17, 2007

Ok, I'm in serious need of help here. My wip is not a romance by any means but there's a very important love story in it, which I just can't pull off. :Headbang:

I've read all past discussions of love scenes here (and it helped a great deal), but I'm still confused.

So, my MC goes on a journey and retrieves his lost lover somewhere on the way, and they go forth together (she has a quest as well). But their story, as in meeting, falling in love, breaking up for a while (all the interesting stuff

) is backstory that the reader will only get a glimpse of; what happens here is the quiet, happy sort of love of a 'perfect' couple (although their relationship will change dramatically, but only later). So until things start to worsen, I have to write them being together, but it's still my MC's story - so almost all scenes focus on him and I seem to forget the woman (she hardly gets any lines), then I insert a tender scene between the two, then I forget her again. That sounds awful doesn't it? Well, it is, and I don't know how to make their love present at all times through hints and other stuff. It's hard that they're together all the time...

Maybe it's the fact that I hate writing/reading 'static' couples (are there any in real life?) and I can't give a direction to their relationship at the time. I dunno. Any suggestions on how to reconcile the main plot and the love story?

If I've confused you or you have no idea, feel free to ramble about your own ways of writing love. That could be of help too, since I seem to be generally terrible at that.

Also, as a side note, today is my one-month AW anniversary, so please raise your Martinis/Cokes/mineral water/cups of bitterness :snoopy:

yay!

CaroGirl · Oct 17, 2007

The "comfortable" kind of love that some couples enjoy is probably pretty difficult to write about. My suggestion is to observe. Do you know any comfortable, loving, intimate couple IRL? If so, watch them. How do they interact, touch, speak to one another? What small gestures do they make that show their bond? You don't have to write a full-blown love seen to show the tenderness between your lovers.

Hope this helps!

Niesta · Oct 17, 2007

Private jokes. Reading each other's minds (or seeming to). Even established couples flirt.

But maybe her invisibility is part of the point?

Also: if "static" couples bore you, maybe that's a sign that you should keep that part to a minimum. Bored writer=bored reader.

windyrdg · Oct 17, 2007

Consider things like a quiet trouch of the hand, a look, knowing how they like thier coffee, tea...whatever. Anticipating their needs, doing something nice for no reason. Pet names, and they don't have to be syrupy sweet. Or prefering each other's company to others. Finishing each other's sentences or thoughts. Talking about remember when... That could be a lead-in to a flashback.
"His hair is as red as x."
"Yeah, and he/she had the personality to match."
<Flashback>
Good Luck

The_Grand_Duchess · Oct 17, 2007

I agree, about keeping her to a minimum. If you're having a hard time placing her in the story maybe she just isn't meant to be there.

Marlys · Oct 17, 2007

Well, they're on a quest, right? Maybe you can make her play a more active part. Have some difficulties that require both their efforts to get out of, or alternate having her come up with the solutions sometimes and him coming up with them others. As the plot progresses, think about how they react to each other: do they always agree? do they usually work together seamlessly, almost reading each other's mind, or do they need to talk things out? what are each one's strengths and weaknesses, and how do they play out against those of the other? How does all this help and/or hinder both his quest and hers?

Best of luck with it.

C.bronco · Oct 17, 2007

Wraith said:
). So until things start to worsen, I have to write them being together, but it's still my MC's story - so almost all scenes focus on him and he seems to forget the woman (she hardly gets any lines), then I insert a tender scene between the two, then he forgets her again. That sounds awful doesn't it? !

Sounds normal to me!

P.S. How long have they been together? If it's more than a few years, I suggest adding grunting.
Betty: "How was your day?"
Ivanocles: "Mmmph."

JoNightshade · Oct 17, 2007

Okay, so, here's my real life example. It sounds like your MC and his lady love have had a time of separation before he finds her and they are together. I don't think this should be "static" or "comfortable" at all. My example from real life:

My husband and I had to spend 9 months apart before we got married. It was pure torture. We talked on the phone as much as possible, and the agony of separation was almost physically painful. When we got back together, we couldn't stop touching each other. We had to know where the other one was at all times. We did EVERYTHING together. I think maybe your MC might have some of this kind of anxiety if he's had a long separation from his loved one-- always checking to make sure she's there, not wanting to let her out of his sight. He would probably want her opinion on everything, and want to include her in everything.

Incidentally, a few months ago (we've been married for almost 2 years), I went on a business trip for 2 weeks. I lasted for about 8 days and then suddenly I WANTED TO BE HOME. Being apart from him was totally unbearable.

FennelGiraffe · Oct 17, 2007

CaroGirl said:
Do you know any comfortable, loving, intimate couple IRL? If so, watch them. How do they interact, touch, speak to one another? What small gestures do they make that show their bond? You don't have to write a full-blown love seen to show the tenderness between your lovers.

That's what I'd go for -- the small, non-verbal stuff that can be tucked into other scenes wherever you need a beat to vary the pacing. (Feel free to swap around the genders in these examples):

While buying supplies, she makes a special effort to find his favorite kind of tea
While buying supplies, he buys a small gift for her and hides it where she will find it later
When someone else is talking, they make eye contact and privately react to what is being said
When someone else is talking, they avoid making eye contact in order to avoid bursting out laughing
After a disagreement, he walks over to her and strokes her cheek to apologize. And she leans into his touch to apologize in return.

(Since you say 'quest' I'm envisioning a low-tech camping in the forest kind of setting, but I realize that may not be correct. So these may not quite apply, but if not you can come up with equivalents that do fit.)

Without either of them interrupting the conversation they are having with others, he starts massaging her feet (sitting around the campfire after dinner)
They hold hands while walking to their tent at night.
She wakes him up with a kiss, but they don't go into a love scene -- they get up and prepare for the day ahead.

WittyandorIronic · Oct 17, 2007

I suppose me and my husband are a "static" couple, as in we are comfortable in our relationship and with each other, and there is no drama between us. (cheating, lies, blame for money issues, hate each others family...none of that stuff) But...most of our friends and acquaintances would hardly describe us as boring. We bicker ALL the time. We are both pretty smart and knowledgeable, and we both like to be right. We also love to tease each other. Even though we are bickering, we often times end up just laughing in the middle of it, or turning it....intimate

if we get especially passionate about something. But between us...we know we are not arguing or fighting, just teasing and playing. I enjoy bickering with my husband.... and I know that sometimes he says things JUST to get me riled up...which is sweet, because it means he wants my attention.
LoL....wow. I just reread that, and thought, "We are freaks."
My whole point was that established and static do not have to = agree on everything, or always saying "dear, honey, sweetness".

JoNightshade · Oct 17, 2007

WittyandorIronic said:
I suppose me and my husband are a "static" couple, as in we are comfortable in our relationship and with each other, and there is no drama between us. (cheating, lies, blame for money issues, hate each others family...none of that stuff) But...most of our friends and acquaintances would hardly describe us as boring. We bicker ALL the time. We are both pretty smart and knowledgeable, and we both like to be right. We also love to tease each other. Even though we are bickering, we often times end up just laughing in the middle of it, or turning it....intimate if we get especially passionate about something. But between us...we know we are not arguing or fighting, just teasing and playing. I enjoy bickering with my husband.... and I know that sometimes he says things JUST to get me riled up...which is sweet, because it means he wants my attention.
LoL....wow. I just reread that, and thought, "We are freaks."
My whole point was that established and static do not have to = agree on everything, or always saying "dear, honey, sweetness".

Oh, I totally second this. We "bicker" ALL THE TIME. It's more of just teasing each other than really being mad. We do it in front of everyone, too.

Another thing-- when we're alone, we call each other ridiculous nicknames and use our own love-talk. Which is kind of like babytalk but... okay, we use bad grammar and we talk like LOLCats and "L337-speak." I think other people do this too.

I think.

a_sharp · Oct 17, 2007

Lots of good advice here, but I was wondering if you could exploit their two quests as background. I'm looking for an underlying conflict, which you seem to hint at arising later. Is there a conflict between their two quests? I would think they would talk about them, share their concerns and opinions, and even if there is a conflict between the quests themselves, you can show the bond they develop over each supporting the other's quest.

Even in those quiet love times the reader needs some kind of conflict. Not necessarily him against her, which doesn't fit, but perhaps something withheld, a trepidation one is reluctant to voice but the other senses. He is naturally going to feel protective of her, and their intimacy will reveal her misgivings to him even if she tries to hide them. This sort of thing keeps the plot moving while letting these two lovers indulge their affection and deepening love-respect.

RumpleTumbler · Oct 17, 2007

JoNightshade said:
Another thing-- when we're alone, we call each other ridiculous nicknames and use our own love-talk. Which is kind of like babytalk but... okay, we use bad grammar and we talk like LOLCats and "L337-speak." I think other people do this too.

lmao......think again batman.

chartreuse · Oct 17, 2007

The_Grand_Duchess said:
I agree, about keeping her to a minimum. If you're having a hard time placing her in the story maybe she just isn't meant to be there.

This was my thought, too. What purpose does she serve other than a bed warmer for your MC? You describe their love story as "very important," but in what way?

What if you had him meet her for the first time on the journey, instead of having that part of their relationship consigned to backstory? That way you could get to show the "interesting stuff," and still have her present for whatever purpose she is supposed to fulfill.

Wraith · Oct 17, 2007

Wow. You guys are amazing! I'm having one epiphany after the other here!

C. bronco said:
Sounds normal to me!

P.S. How long have they been together? If it's more than a few years, I suggest adding grunting.
Betty: "How was your day?"
Ivanocles: "Mmmph."

Wow! that puts their relationship in a whole new light!

FennelGiraffe said:
(Since you say 'quest' I'm envisioning a low-tech camping in the forest kind of setting, but I realize that may not be correct. So these may not quite apply, but if not you can come up with equivalents that do fit.)

Yup, that's what it is. Love your examples, thanks! It's just the kind of thing I need, only I get carried away with scenes and forget to keep that connection there.

JoNightshade: Wow, thanks for sharing that! I did think I brushed over their finding each other again too quickly, but you're giving me a whole new side of the story to develop. Thanks!

a-sharp: You're right, the story needs more of that. Their quests do clash, in a way - at least hers will create some tension at a point and a sort of jealousy building up to the climax (I hope I'll be able to pull it off). But your points are great, I think I'm pretty low on characterization when it comes to how they interact and stuff. I'll have to think this through more deeply.

chartreuse: Her death will be the climax of the story and a turning point; the MC goes on the journey to find her (before he finds this 'greater quest' kinda thing - but it's not actually a fantasy, that's why I have a hard time describing the story). But I will keep your advice in mind whenever I feel an urge to add pointless stuff, so thanks (and sorry for not explaining properly).

Everyone else - thanks for the advice, it's great! I'll try to make her play a more active part in the quests like Marlys said, as well as show the little things all of you suggested (and thanks for those who shared their experiences - my surroundings seem devoid of happy couples :scared:

)

I really have to do something about it as it's not worth writing stuff and not enjoying it.

CaroGirl · Oct 17, 2007

I thought of another possibility for you. Maybe they have a "code word" upon parting that has meaning only to them. It doesn't have to be sappy. It could be something like "butterflies" because the first day they met they disturbed a thousand butterflies that flew through the air around them (I'm sure you can do better than that).

All the best!

WittyandorIronic · Oct 17, 2007

Just another example of why my husband and I are weird... He actually told me he was going to marry me the first night we went out. Romantic, huh? Well...not really, as it was because we went to a bar (of sorts) and I ordered Jack and Coke. He said I was the first girl who would ever drink whiskey with him, and he was impressed. lol
After our wedding we toasted with Jack and Coke, rather than champagne.
There are all sorts of couples out there...lol.

Soccer Mom · Oct 17, 2007

Another thing-- when we're alone, we call each other ridiculous nicknames and use our own love-talk. Which is kind of like babytalk but... okay, we use bad grammar and we talk like LOLCats and "L337-speak." I think other people do this too.

How long they've been together has a big impact on how they relate. I see big differences in Jo's 2 yo marriage and my 15 yo one.

Jo's House: I can haz kisses?

Soccer's House: Oh noes! Get on UR side of bed! No wants!

Wraith · Oct 17, 2007

Caro_Girl said:
I thought of another possibility for you. Maybe they have a "code word" upon parting that has meaning only to them. It doesn't have to be sappy. It could be something like "butterflies" because the first day they met they disturbed a thousand butterflies that flew through the air around them (I'm sure you can do better than that).

Yes, that would fit the strange setting of the story! I'll think about it - something random and interesting at the same time could work (I like your example too).

And Witty, that's so nice

Yes, it seems like every couple has a weird story to tell.

Jaycinth · Oct 17, 2007

May I jump in and be a spoil sport?

Kill her.

In my current WIP, My MC is very much in love with his wife. They are a perfect couple.

And it got sappy real fast.
So I killed her.

And the story improved immeasurably.
But that is just me.

So I'll go away.

Happy one month!...come by the Caberet. (see Below) Today is 'Get Honking Drunk' Wednesday.

Soccer Mom · Oct 17, 2007

Okay. Done derailing. Carry on.

Wraith · Oct 17, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
Okay. Done derailing. Carry on.

I can finally picture my MC looking at his girl! YAY!

PeeDee · Oct 17, 2007

I, for one, really LIKE reading about a couple that is in love in the book, spends the book in love, ends the book in love.

Not because it's boring, but because it's not the annoying "does he or doesn't he get her?" storyline that is resolved at the end of the book, as we ride into the sunset. And its' not the "he has her, but he's losing her" storyline.

I think it's fun to see a stable couple, who is stable (static?) and having an adventure that doesn't involve shaking or damaging or ending or beginning their relationship. I don't see it very often, but it's one dynamic that I enjoy a great deal.

Example: During the later seasons of Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, the storylines turned into these weirdo things written by writers who were being messed-with by the network. The stories were awful. But, Lois and Clark had no secrets, were married and stable, and that was one element that I thought was fascinating, underexplored perhaps, but still fascinating about those later episodes. Yes, the early season of them slowly getting together was a delight and the best of the season...but the latter seasons could have been, with that element. You see what I mean?

Claudia Gray · Oct 17, 2007

IMHO, it sounds like you haven't made the female character anything but a love interest. Think of her as a three-dimensional person with a role to play in the story besides loving the MC. There may be bits of action or dialogue currently given to minor characters that she might prove a more interesting person to handle. When you see people actually living life together -- not just being sweet with each other -- I think the romance is substantially strengthened.

In other words, I think you need more, not less.

melaniehoo · Oct 17, 2007

I agree with expanding the female character. By showing more of her, you'll also show more aspects of the MC because he loves this woman. If they are very familiar with each other you can use them to show hidden characteristics. "She hates it when he gets so stubborn." That sort of thing.

I'm in a new marriage but I'm beginning to think we're ALL weird in private.

Love. Arrrgh!

The demon in your inkwell.

Living the dream

Canada's sweetheart

New kid, be gentle!

I record everything.

Resist. Love. Go outside.

I have plans...

has finally arrived

It's green they say

has finally arrived

Somebody give me an A

Loves Joni Mitchell

The demon in your inkwell.

Living the dream

Crypto-fascist

The demon in your inkwell.

Your Cuddly Sociopathic

Crypto-fascist

The demon in your inkwell.

Where's my tea, please...?

And thus we begin the edits