Why do I need an Agent?

WittyandorIronic · Oct 16, 2007

The recent plagiarism train wreck thread as well as some others, have made me seriously question the concept of Agents.
I have read through many of the other threads discussing what makes a good Agent vs. a bad one, as well as "that's standard in every contract", and I am a little put out. I originally thought the answer was, "Editors will only take agented queries." But I have seen several people on this board post that they received a contract with a publisher, and then got an agent, which really confused me. Obviously, I have no experience with this, and will not be in the market for one for some time, so my question is currently just academic.

Hypothetical Situation: I am an unpublished author with a finished, edited, beta tested, awesome 100,000 word count novel.

I take my novel, that I have been working super hard on, and I query 200 agents, because everyone knows you HAVE to have an Agent. Depending on the agent I have to have a great query, a super sharp plot, great writing ability, be error-free, have a 'platform', and have shorts published in 50 different e-zines and magazines. Alright, the last may be an exaggeration, but you get my point.
So the agent signs me, and then takes the great novel and query I wrote, makes several copies (for which he charges me) and then gives it to some editor buddies at his favorite publishing house. They offer me a contract, which he uses his great insider knowledge to say, "YaY! It's a good contract." and they publish my book. Then he receives 15-20% of my profit, forever and ever.

Assuming everything I wrote is correct, if over simplified, the only unique qualification of being and/or having an Agent is that he has friends at publishing houses, and has read a literary contract before. Which means that the only reason you need an Agent is because he has contacts and networks. Which....seems like very little work for 15-20%.

So, if I were the enterprising sort of girl I am, and have extensive experience in networking and schmoozing, which I do...can't I do it all myself and just pay a literary contract proficient lawyer to look over the contract? Can't I join groups, and forums, and local meet & greets, and then query 200 Publishers, which it seems some people do, with my fantastic novel and query? And just pocket the 15-20%? I have to put the effort into the novel and query either way, and build my qualifications either way. And, it seems, pay for copies of my own manuscript either way.
I'm not implying I think it would be easy, and I understand if you don't want to put forth that effort and would rather pay someone else, but do they work some magic I don't yet know or understand?
In terms of money, if after 2 years my royalties totaled $100,000 (this is my fantasy damn it) you are talking a lot of money for an Agent who just...knew who he already knew.

What am I missing??
(after all that, please feel free to point me to the 3 month old thread that already covered this question, that I searched for, and could not find)
thx!

RLSMiller · Oct 16, 2007

One thing is that having a top agent will pretty much guarantee you a higher advance than you would get without one. So when you think about it, even with the 15 or 20% deduction, you're still earning more.

Second thing is that agents do more than just sell your work. They oversee your career and are always there for you to turn to if you need advice.

I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are two main points off the top of my head.

ETA: Here's a good article related to this topic, although it's two years out of date. http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2005/10/05/author-advance-survey-version-20/

Will Lavender · Oct 16, 2007

First, I wouldn't use that thread as a recrimination of all agents. There are scammers in all walks of life; do your research and avoid them, and you'll be able to find a worthy, reputable, hard-working agent. I'd recommend PreditorsandEditors. I did 100% of my research there.

And with all due respect, Witty, that's a pretty simplistic explanation of what agents do.

One does not have to have an agent, of course. But if you're looking to make money, then it is difficult to proceed in this business without having one. Who would you sell the book to? Know anyone in the publishing business? (Your suggestion that the agent merely "has friends at publishing houses" is a little off the mark, I think. Agents champion that book. They sit down across from editors and they go to bat for the MS. That's huge. Trust me.) Know how to read contracts? Negotiate author copies? Deal with foreign editors? Clean up translation rights? Film rights? Negotiate your advance?

I certainly don't.

If you can do all these things, then you can definitely sell your book without an agent. But, it's unlikely that anyone who is going to pay you decent money is going to ever read the thing unless you have some serious ins in publishing.

As far as "paying" agents.

I barely feel the agent's cut when I get my checks. (Not that I would care even if I did.) The agent did such a good job for the manuscript putting the book at a major house, the money I have made almost completely blots out her commission in the US and in all the other countries I have sold it to. And as far as paying for copies -- well, I'll give you that. But it was a worthwhile 150 bucks to part with.

Calla Lily · Oct 16, 2007

The list of publishing houses that take unagented mss is shrinking exponentially.

My agent can query all the houses that don't acknowledge the existence of me, the writer, but recognize and talk to agents.

These are the houses that will get my book into brick-and-mortar stores, on Amazon, to review sites, etc. etc. etc. etc...

She will negotiate a contract--I'm no expert on intellectual property. She will bust her hump for me because she doesn't get paid till she sells my book. She has that incentive to go for the biggest and best deal she can get me. These publishers have marketing departments and contacts I couldn't begin to match. I know--I worked 10 years in marketing.

Alone, I'm one of a million writers. As a client of an agency, I must've written something good enough for someone to risk making a mortgage payment off of.

That's why. Good luck in your search!

P.S. I did the research before I signed with her, too.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 16, 2007

Agent

First, yes, you can contact some publishers directly, but not the best ones. And even many of the top publishers you can contact directly will not buy your novel. Ever.

Second, the agent is not taking 15% of your profits, she's taking 15% of her profits. An agent earns her 15% many times over. Trust me on this, you will never, ever earn anywhere nearly as much money without an agent as with an agent. With an agent, you're turning loose of 15% of a lot, but without an agent, you're keeping 15% of very little, or nothing. Two years and $100,000 in royalties is just a fantasy, and a poor one, if you have no agent. It isn't likely with an agent, but it is at least possible.

An agent is valuable in looking over a contract, but this is the least of the things an agent does for you.

An agent does not just send a manuscript to an editor buddy who buys it, and an agent does not just say "Yay! Good contract."

First, even if you could gain the knowledge it takes to know which publishing houses want what kind of novel, when they want it, how they want it, what the trends are, etc., doing so would take years. Second, even if you could learn how to negotiate a contract, something darned few lawyers, entertainment or other, can do in the publishing field, and even if you do have the personality make nice, when are you going to actually sit down and write?

Being an agent is a full-time job, even if you're doing it for yourself. You have to deal with auxillary rights, which are terribly important. You have to know about film rights, foreign rights, reprint rights, etc. You have to know when and how to hold auctions, when and how to jump publishers, when and where and how to find and negotiate all sorts of other writing opportunities for your client, etc.

Networking and schmoozing can be important, but have nothing at all to do with an agent's job.

Too many new writers think all an agent does is pull a manuscript from the pile, send it to an editor, who then sends her a contract, and, walla, all done. In truth, this is a small part of what an agent does. Being an agent is a serious, full-time job that requires a great deal of knowledge, and around the clock study of the publishing industry. To rewrite the old saying about lawyers, a writer trying to act as his own agent has a fool for a client.

WittyandorIronic · Oct 16, 2007

I appreciate the feed back.
Just a couple of follow up questions and comments.

(I chopped your quotes to fit into my categories, not trying to misquote you)

Know how to read contracts? Deal with foreign editors? Clean up translation rights? Film rights?

These all seem to be like very legal specific things, do you also pay for a literary familiar lawyer to look at these things in your contract? Does your agent charge you to send it to her lawyer? I don't know, and I am curious. I can only compare the publishing business with the business I am most familiar with, and I would trust all of that to a lawyer, and only a lawyer.

Negotiate author copies? Negotiate your advance?

In my example I would be (and may one day be) an unpublished author with a completed novel. The Advance (we are getting into whole other large chunks of my ignorance here) would therefore be moot for that single novel, as it is already complete and I still have my day job. And I need 10 author copies. Why? It is my first published novel and the only people in the world who really care are a few family and friends. lol.
But to take the situation further, if I have published a book and now would like an advance and better contract and all that good "professional writer-ly" stuff, I could use my success to shop around for an agent with better options for me...like 5%. Why so little? I now have a track record of success.

And with all due respect, Witty, that's a pretty simplistic explanation of what agents do.

Well...yes. lol. It was, which I admitted in my original post. Because I have not seen it really explained in depth what they do.

I am sorry for the dismissal of the "connections" and interactions, but my career is based in a business where everything is "who you know" and more importantly, "who knows of you?". I am familiar with that world of networking, trade conferences, and professional organizations. Is it with publishing? No. Do I think I could apply the same principals and be successful? Probably.

These publishers have marketing departments and contacts I couldn't begin to match. I know--I worked 10 years in marketing

Is that the publisher, or the agent that does the marketing and publicity? I thought it was the publisher!

I am asking all of these questions purely out of ignorance, not a belief that Cheryl the 'Preditor' Agent is the standard, or a prejudice towards the profession. I simply have not found a good resource that lists an agents work and responsibilities, and I dislike following advice based on "everyone has one." If it is nearly impossible, or ridiculously difficult, to get to the publishers without one, then fine. I get it. That kind of sucks, adding a middle man and all that, but if it is the only way it is the only way. If people have agents purely for ease of work...well... I have never been that kind of girl.

WittyandorIronic · Oct 16, 2007

Thanks for the info James, even if you consistently ignore every one of my attempts at humor, including this one I am sure.
And my fantasies are my own, disapproval or no.

(I chopped your quote as well, and edited out the bits I would like to ignore)

Jamesaritchie said:
An agent is valuable in looking over a contract, but this is the least of the things an agent does for you.

First, even if you could gain the knowledge it takes to know which publishing houses want what kind of novel, when they want it, how they want it, what the trends are, etc., doing so would take years. Second, even if you could learn how to negotiate a contract, something darned few lawyers, entertainment or other, can do in the publishing field, and even if you do have the personality make nice, when are you going to actually sit down and write?

Being an agent is a full-time job, even if you're doing it for yourself. You have to deal with auxillary rights, which are terribly important. You have to know about film rights, foreign rights, reprint rights, etc. You have to know when and how to hold auctions, when and how to jump publishers, when and where and how to find and negotiate all sorts of other writing opportunities for your client, etc.

Too many new writers think all an agent does is pull a manuscript from the pile, send it to an editor, who then sends her a contract, and, walla, all done. In truth, this is a small part of what an agent does. Being an agent is a serious, full-time job that requires a great deal of knowledge, and around the clock study of the publishing industry. To rewrite the old saying about lawyers, a writer trying to act as his own agent has a fool for a client.

That is all great information, and not what is most often talked about.
This "new writer" thinks all an agent does is "pull a manuscript from the pile, send it to an editor, who then sends her a contract" because that is all of the process I am exposed to. I appreciate the other information, as that is exactly what I have been unable to pinpoint.

And though I understand your point about publisher house knowledge and research, research is something I really enjoy and who was going to be interested in my book, for what reasons, and what their history was is something I would want to know, agent or no. Being the control freak I am, it is probably something I would want to discern, or at least verify, for myself anyways.

Thx for the info guys, now off to further research your responses.

ORION · Oct 16, 2007

well witty - This is a really good thread to have - It is nearly impossible to keep up with which editor has moved to which house and which imprint is looking for what genre at what time if you aren't a part of the scene-- I take PW, PM, Kirkus, etc. I follow who leaves what job at media bistro but it's really tough. My agent (located in New York) was able to have lunch with editors and drop hints about my book before she even submitted. It was her ability to know where it should go (and more importantly what time of year) to be able to get an auction going (which she did).
The foreign rights sales alone are hugely complex and account for much extra money for the author - they don't come to you - your foreign rights agent has the connections to make these submissions.
I researched getting an intellectual property attorney because I thought I might need one and even they said use an agent - the lawyers are far more expensive PLUS I have gotten valuable advice on my career.
Networking in publishing is NOT as simple as networking in other industries. And editors are many times closed mouthed about what exactly they are looking for. An amateur pitch can ruin a sale.
Gosh I will tell you I have learned SO MUCH in this past year about everything my agent does for me- even something as small as cover input and publicity suggestions.
Right now William Morris is helping me get a refund from the UK government because they deducted UK tax on one of my advances. Do you think I want to make long distance calls to UK taxation to straighten it out?
If I didn't have an agent I would have mistakenly sold my world rights to Putnam and not realized what I was doing.

blacbird · Oct 16, 2007

Assuming that you're not approaching a scammer, shouldn't the question be:

Why does an agent need you?

caw

WittyandorIronic · Oct 16, 2007

Thx Orion! I like your point about the editors moving and such, kind of like the others mentioned with which house wants which flavor at which time of the month. After all you guys have explained, it does seem to become exponentially time consuming to keep up with. Unless you get payed to do so, heh. lol.

And I had no clue about the lawyers possibly being more expensive and less 'well-rounded' than an Agent. I sort of knew that the allure of an Agent was that they were a cadre of information and people rolled into one firm, but you guys have definitely added depth to that. And GL on your refund....dang taxes!

Calla Lily · Oct 16, 2007

About your callout of my marketing sentence: I meant the publisher. My agents hooks me up with a good publisher, and they put their marketing dept, to work--for me. (And trust me, marketing depts work hard.) Without the agent, I wouldn't get a glance from the publisher.

Will Lavender · Oct 16, 2007

In my example I would be (and may one day be) an unpublished author with a completed novel. The Advance (we are getting into whole other large chunks of my ignorance here) would therefore be moot for that single novel, as it is already complete and I still have my day job. And I need 10 author copies. Why? It is my first published novel and the only people in the world who really care are a few family and friends. lol.
But to take the situation further, if I have published a book and now would like an advance and better contract and all that good "professional writer-ly" stuff, I could use my success to shop around for an agent with better options for me...like 5%. Why so little? I now have a track record of success.

I'm not sure I follow much of this, Witty. I recommend doing a whole lot more research into how publishing works before you go any route -- agent or not.

The "advance" is the advance-against-royalties. It's the money you make up front when the novel is sold to a publisher. It's very tough to get an advance that you will financially feel without an agent to help you get the manuscript read in the first place.

And that's the answer to the original question.

Why do I need an agent? Simply because it's virtually impossible to get editors to read your work if you don't have one.

AnnieColleen · Oct 16, 2007

WittyandorIronic said:
In my example I would be (and may one day be) an unpublished author with a completed novel. The Advance (we are getting into whole other large chunks of my ignorance here) would therefore be moot for that single novel, as it is already complete and I still have my day job.

If I'm understanding you correctly, this may be one source of confusion. An advance is not money paid for a novel not yet written. It's money paid to the author before publication, which the publisher expects to recoup in royalties once the novel is published. The author keeps the advance regardless of how the book performs, but does not receive royalties until/if the amount of royalties earned exceeds the amount of the advance.

And the rest I leave to those with more experience, since I'm very new at this myself...just thought I would throw that in, in case the issue was adding to the confusion.

Toothpaste · Oct 16, 2007

If I may join in in the explanation as to what an advance is, just to be super clear:

The publisher reads your novel. Loves your novel. Wants to publish it. So she sits down with a calculator and figures out how much money she thinks she'll make selling it. Then she figures out from that what your royalties would be (royalties are usually 10% for the author) from that amount (say she thinks she'll earn $100 000, then she would think you would earn $10 000). Then she turns to the author, and with that monetary figure in mind says to the author: "I think you will make at least this much money, if not more. So I am basically going to give you the money now so you can live off it, pay rent etc in the hopes that you will make that money in the future."

Now if the author doesn't make back that money they don't owe the money to the publisher. It just sucks for the publisher. But the author doesn't start earning royalties until the advance is made back. So once the $10 000 let's say is made by selling the book, then the author can start earning money on top of that amount.

This is a very simplistic way of explaining it, but I hope it makes some sense.

I am a new author myself, first time published, and have got very good advances from all the countries my agent has sold my book to. So it is possible, as a newbie, to do rather well.

ORION · Oct 16, 2007

witty those author copies are not for giving to friends- they are for promotion. 10 is not very many- I got a box of 50 and can get more if I want to. You give them to interviewers, TV personalities, teachers, anyone who you think can help you sell more books.

Novelhistorian · Oct 16, 2007

There's another thing agents do for you. Other posters have remarked that publishers won't buy directly from authors; the flip side of that is that publishers want to know that someone they trust has found a manuscript worthy. If an agent with whom they've worked (and who has sold them books that have made money) says that a particular ms. is worth their time, they'll take it more seriously than if the author had sent it herself. Much more seriously. Agents provide a filter for publishers, screening out the potentially profitable manuscripts from those that aren't. This forum has debated up and down whether the process works fairly, efficiently, or accurately, but that's not the point. The point is, it's very unlikely you'll get past step 1 without an agent.

WittyandorIronic · Oct 16, 2007

thanks for all the info guys. I appreciate it!

ORION · Oct 16, 2007

witty - it was a pleasure to have the kind of dialogue like this. It's so refreshing to not have the adversarial posts and I venture you got people to respond who wouldn't have otherwise because you are so rational and obviously want to learn.
Good on you!

jchines · Oct 19, 2007

Just tossing out one more data point. My own agent has:

Gotten a two-book offer in about two months from DAW. DAW does accept unagented submissions, but for those, you're more likely to wait two years.

Sold rights for those same books in six other languages so far (I think ... I'm starting to lose track). The money from those sales exceeds what I've made from DAW.

Sold another two books to DAW, and negotiated a bump in my advance.

Offered advice and assistance in filing tax paperwork to deal with money coming from places like Germany and France.

And most importantly, he buys me dinner when we hang out at conventions

---

Regarding the plagiarism scandal, I don't think the question to take away from that mess is "Why do I need an agent?" so much as "What research do I need to do to make sure I don't end up with a scammer?" I think that episode is proof that a bad "agent" can be far, far worse than no agent at all.

Tish Davidson · Oct 19, 2007

Another thing agents can sometimes do is to get one of their other clients to write an intro or jacket blurb for your book. Plus agents can hook you up with ghostwriting opportunities and things like book based on the movie deals that you would never have heard of otherwise.

LucindaLynx · Oct 19, 2007

I understand - at least on some level

Toothpaste said:
If I may join in in the explanation as to what an advance is, just to be super clear:

Then she turns to the author, and with that monetary figure in mind says to the author: "I think you will make at least this much money, if not more. So I am basically going to give you the money now so you can live off it, pay rent etc in the hopes that you will make that money in the future."

Now if the author doesn't make back that money they don't owe the money to the publisher. But the author doesn't start earning royalties until the advance is made back. So once the $10 000 let's say is made by selling the book, then the author can start earning money on top of that amount.

This is a very simplistic way of explaining it, but I hope it makes some sense.

Hello Toothpaste!
You made perfect sense to me. That advance is a kind of "debt"...but the author does not need to pay it back. Oh well...that is just my way to think.

Pamster · Oct 19, 2007

I sure hope to get my stuff sold someday, I should be so lucky as to get an agent, I want one to find my work interesting enough to be hot to sell it for us both. Someday, I hope it happens, until then it's a daydream, but one I won't give up on and I hope you don't either, research isn't easy but then neither is writing and revising a full length novel.

If you've gotten that far you can do worse things then work on getting an agent's interest. Good luck!

WittyandorIronic · Oct 19, 2007

I have really appreciated all the input everyone gave. The whole process is a lot more clear to me (although I admit I could have read some of the stickies I have been reading to begin with).
I am a simple animal, and therefore a lot of my logic processes go along the lines of
"Me write book. You sell book. Me have money." It is nice to know the "you" in the middle isn't someone quite as amateur as myself.

.

Pamster · Oct 19, 2007

You have a good attitude Witty, so keep on writing and start thinking about submitting what you've got to agents you check into with several sources to make sure they accept the genre you've written in.

Good luck Witty!

Why do I need an Agent?

WittyandorIronic

RLSMiller

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Calla Lily

On hiatus

Jamesaritchie

WittyandorIronic

WittyandorIronic

ORION

Sailed away years ago

blacbird

WittyandorIronic

Calla Lily

On hiatus

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

AnnieColleen

Invisible Writer

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

ORION

Sailed away years ago

Novelhistorian

WittyandorIronic

ORION

Sailed away years ago

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

Tish Davidson

LucindaLynx

Pamster

Counting Stars

WittyandorIronic

Pamster

Counting Stars