What other taboos in writing are there?

[Project nachonaco]

I've heard about the child abuse/death thing....And rape, of course....what else is there?

'Cos I definitely think my novel just broke all of 'em.

[Marlys]

There aren't any taboos, just individual agents and publishers who aren't interested in or comfortable handling certain topics. The Kite Runner featured child rape, and did just fine.

[WittyandorIronic]

I don't know about taboos, but I certainly would be suspect of any such limitations. Literature should challenge our concepts, and create bonds with characters so we can empathize and understand situations unlike our own. So why have subjects that are off limits?
Personally, my WIP deals with an almost rape. I was just asking reader comfort level in the romance writing section, since mine flashes back mid steamy scene. The overwhelming response I received was that if the end was satisfying enough, and you moved with the character from pain, to healing, to healed (or as much as reasonably possible) than readers will forgive most forms of MC torture.
As a reader, I would agree. I can stomach reading about some pretty nasty things, as long as the bad guy gets whats due him in the end.

[scarletpeaches]

There's no such thing as a taboo when it comes to what's fit material for a novel.

[ChaosTitan]

We had this discussion a while ago, if you'd like to read what folks have already had to say on the topic.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61534&highlight=taboo

[Birol]

As others have said, it's not about what will or will not sell, but certain people would prefer not to represent certain topics. That's their choice as individuals.

What you use can't just be for shock value, though. It has to serve the story. That's not about taboos, though. That's just good writing.

[scarletpeaches]

As others have said, it's not about what will or will not sell, but certain people would prefer not to represent certain topics. That's their choice as individuals.

What you use can't just be for shock value, though. It has to serve the story. That's not about taboos, though. That's just good writing.

So it would be inappropriate of me to run through this thread shouting "BUM WILLY POO!" just to shock people?

[nevada]

So it would be inappropriate of me to run through this thread shouting "BUM WILLY POO!" just to shock people?

Somehow, I think that if you did that people wouldn't be that shocked. Anyone else, maybe. :P just kidding.

[WittyandorIronic]

Sweet leapin' crickets! I applaud your avatar Scarlet. My, my, my...
I'm sorry....what were we talking about? *ahem. /blush

[scarletpeaches]

Just so you all know - it's not me. I'm female. Nor is it anyone I know. Hell, I wish!

Right, people. As you were.

[benbradley]

Here's Heinlein's juvenile "Podkayne of Mars" with the original manuscript's disasterous ending changed to a not-as-bad-but-not-so-great ending, as discussed in previous threads:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1076452&postcount=7
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1254578&postcount=8

[blacbird]

Submission.

caw

[brokenfingers]

I'd say one pretty big taboo would be:

Don't write a novel about a crime you've successfully committed. (http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2163010,00.html)

[Pamster]

<----is lost looking at hot pants again, wishing she could read what the words say on them...

But seriously, besides being glad to see the cool avatar back in place on Scarlet's posts, I agree with the others that there really aren't any taboos, just agents and publishers who don't want to deal with certain topics. :tongue

[maestrowork]

I've heard about the child abuse/death thing....And rape, of course....what else is there?

'Cos I definitely think my novel just broke all of 'em.

There aren't any taboos, just individual agents and publishers who aren't interested in or comfortable handling certain topics. The Kite Runner featured child rape, and did just fine.

Precisely. I don't think any of those are taboos -- but do tread carefully on how you portray these -- too graphic, too raw, too gratuitous? Something to think about.

In The Kite Runner, some may feel the rape scene was too much, too graphic and too detailed. A parent I know actually forbade her son to read that chapter.

[Judg]

I have stopped dead in the middle of an excellent novel because I can see a child about to be gang-raped and I don't want to have to go through it. The author has done too good a job in a lot of ways.

I've also been trying to read A Complicated Kindness by Miriam Toews, but have been unable to keep going. She captures the voice of a snarky, judgmental teenager so well...

My fifth child just turned 18. I have had snarky, judgmental teenagers to deal with for so long that voluntarily immersing myself in another seems to be more than I can do. But that's a highly individual quirk...

[Nymtoc]

The only taboo I can think of is plagiarism.

:hat:

[JoNightshade]

For me, there's only one taboo: Bad writing.

Although I guess that's not too much of a taboo these days. ;)

[Azraelsbane]

I'm with everyone else. No taboos. I have a threesome in the first ten pages, and most of my MCs are emotionally dysfunctional due to an array of issues, rape and incest just to name a couple.

Granted, I just started querying so I have no clue if it'll actually land an agent or sell, but I believe that if it's important to the story, it should be in there. Now, graphic detail is another issue. I think it's genre specific, but there's always some leeway as long as you don't become so fascinated with describing the act in loving detail that you forget the point of it. Just my thoughts. :)

[Queen of Swords]

Submission.

And dominance?

[benbradley]

While many may say "nothing is taboo," there are surely subjects and situations one might think twice about before writing. What promps me to write in this thread is that last night I read a short story featuring a suicide attempt (I won't link to it, but it's here on an AW forum).

It also brought to mind this news story I might have found hard to believe, but I heard it on the radio earlier this year when it happened:
(two men in a bizzare suicide attempt, may be disturbing)
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=60914

Ideas of course come from everywhere, but I'm wondering whether things like this would be considered "appropriate fodder" for stories...

[JoNightshade]

Well I know that one taboo my writing instructor in college always enforced was that no book or story could end with the main character committing suicide. Actually I agree with this, because the point of a book is to have a character that moves forward (or back) in some way. There has to be some sort of growth or change or you don't have a book. And suicide isn't growth, it's a cop-out. It puts an end to any growth whatsoever.

[Azraelsbane]

Well I know that one taboo my writing instructor in college always enforced was that no book or story could end with the main character committing suicide. Actually I agree with this, because the point of a book is to have a character that moves forward (or back) in some way. There has to be some sort of growth or change or you don't have a book. And suicide isn't growth, it's a cop-out. It puts an end to any growth whatsoever.

Hmm, I have a suicide in my series, but it's not at the end. By that point in the story, the reader should be almost expecting it. I'm hoping for understanding and empathy. Time will tell.

[JoNightshade]

Hmm, I have a suicide in my series, but it's not at the end. By that point in the story, the reader should be almost expecting it. I'm hoping for understanding and empathy. Time will tell.

Well there's just a slight difference between a fictional world that mirrors everyday life and... one that grants you access to heaven and hell and the afterlife. I think suicide doesn't count if the story continues beyond the grave. ;)

[scarletpeaches]

What about the ending of The Butterfly Effect? That was essentially suicide, but due to the nature of the story the writer(s?) got away with it.

[Azraelsbane]

Well there's just a slight difference between a fictional world that mirrors everyday life and... one that grants you access to heaven and hell and the afterlife. I think suicide doesn't count if the story continues beyond the grave. ;)

You don't know enough about my world system. It's in no way the traditional Heaven/Hell/afterlife system, and when ranking immortals die, they die. ;) The Latin saying in my sig has a lot to do with the actions of my immortals, and especially the suicide. But I don't want to get into a justification of suicide convo, because that's in very bad taste. And we all know I'm a classy wench who insists on good taste.

[JoNightshade]

Oh, I thought you were talking about your girl who is narrating the story of her life from her afterlife.

[Azraelsbane]

Oh, I thought you were talking about your girl who is narrating the story of her life from her afterlife.

Nah, that's my trunk novel, and she didn't REALLY commit suicide. She had a nice fatal shot to the liver, and then chose to disregard her own failing health in an attempt to kill her would be murderer. He would have gone after her son if she hadn't killed him first. :) No sweat though, my stuff gets confusing in short posts.

[Queen of Swords]

Well I know that one taboo my writing instructor in college always enforced was that no book or story could end with the main character committing suicide. Actually I agree with this, because the point of a book is to have a character that moves forward (or back) in some way. There has to be some sort of growth or change or you don't have a book. And suicide isn't growth, it's a cop-out. It puts an end to any growth whatsoever.

I'd have agreed with that, except for a movie and a television show. The movie is Operation Daybreak, the story of a successful assassination attempt on Reinhardt Heydrich, and at the end, the Nazis trap the two assassins in a church crypt. They have no options left but suicide, and the end of that movie brought tears to my eyes.

The television show was The Outer Limits, and the episode was called "Summit". In the story, a single mother is a diplomat setting out to negotiate with the Dregocians, a genetically-engineered humanoid race which now demands its independence from Earth. There are numerous problems along the way and the future of both Earth and Dregocia is in the balance. At the end, the Dreg delegate makes it clear to the diplomat that the only way she can convince the Dregs that she is willing to do anything to bring about peace is to sacrifice her life for it. And the Dreg delegate commits suicide before the satellite cameras, to show just how strongly they believe in that. So the woman takes the gun in her hands, points it towards her face and says, "I am always with you. I am always with you." There's the sound of a shot, and the scene switches to her little son waking up in bed.

I don't think the suicides in either of those were a cop-out. They were incredibly sad, but I felt that they suited the stories and they were inevitable.

[scarletpeaches]

Thelma and Louise.

[WittyandorIronic]

Anne McCafferey (sp?) had a major book in one of her series that ended in an MCs death. I won't name the title, spoiler and all that, but I remember reading it in 6th grade during math (when I wasn't supposed to be reading) and bursting into tears. It was very wrenching and sad, but entirely appropriate.

[RickN]

Thelma and Louise.

Excellent example, but I personally didn't like the ending. Not that I object to Susan Sarandon driving off a cliff, I just never bought that their problems were huge enough to warrant suicide. However, my wife was in tears -- must be a chick thing. :-)

If you (the royal 'you', not the individual 'you', peaches) kill off your sympathetic MC, you better have good reason. If I dislike your ending, I won't be getting your NEXT book. For example, the ending of Hannibal made sure that I won't be buying another Thomas Harris book.

[Azraelsbane]

If you (the royal 'you', not the individual 'you', peaches) kill off your sympathetic MC, you better have good reason. If I dislike your ending, I won't be getting your NEXT book. For example, the ending of Hannibal made sure that I won't be buying another Thomas Harris book.

Wow, really? I LOVED the ending in the book. It was so much better than the movie ending, and when discussing the book with others I've found a lot who agree. Just goes to show you that you can't please everyone. :)

[seun]

In The Kite Runner, some may feel the rape scene was too much, too graphic and too detailed. A parent I know actually forbade her son to read that chapter.

And probably ensured her son read that chapter by forbidding it.

[RickN]

Wow, really? I LOVED the ending in the book. It was so much better than the movie ending, and when discussing the book with others I've found a lot who agree. Just goes to show you that you can't please everyone. :)

Lots of opinions to be found with 6 billion of us. :-)

**Spoiler**

Lector seduces Starling and they run off to Argentina -- the bad guy wins. I wanted Lecter inspecting daisies from underneath, not chillin' at the Teatro Colón.

[Azraelsbane]

Lots of opinions to be found with 6 billion of us. :-)

**Spoiler**

Lector seduces Starling and they run off to Argentina -- the bad guy wins. I wanted Lecter inspecting daisies from underneath, not chillin' at the Teatro Colón.

I figured as much, but what really made the series for me was that Lector wasn't a traditional bad guy. I actually liked him. I think his character had a huge influence on my writing of antagonists. Not the cannibal part, mind you. ;)