Yes! First post ever. Hope this is in the right spot... I originally came to this site to get advice on finding a professional editor but have now decided to instead do it myself (seems to be the preferred method by many on this site). So... what I need are some helpful books as my grammar/punctuation/etc. skills have grown rusty in the years since I graduated from high school. I've already seen a few recommendations on this site but thought perhaps if I started a thread asking what YOUR FAVORITE books on writing are then I could order some up for myself on amazon. So, what are they?
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I like:
Grammar Girl website
Strunk and White's Elements of Style
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers
I haven't read the Stephen King book (On Writing), but people here say it's great.
Grammar Girl website
Strunk and White's Elements of Style
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers
I haven't read the Stephen King book (On Writing), but people here say it's great.
Ya, I've heard 'On Writing' was a standard many times. I'll definitely be getting that one as well as check out the other ones you mentioned.
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You should still consider a professional editor for things outside of the grammatical realm but it's very common, and should be, for authors to edit their own grammar. They should have a handle on the language afterall! Just don't go too ballistic over it, though. You don't want your writing to be grammatically perfect, especially the dialogue because no one speaks properly all the time. Lets count how many times I catch myself saying "these ones."
I know there's a basic grammar reference that had been assigned to me in pretty much every English class I had in college. I'll be damned if I remember the name though since I never bought it. But it's narrow, maybe 4 inches wide at most, the standard 11 inches long or so, spiral bound. It's a quick reference guide for grammar. Someone please tell me you know what I'm talking about so I don't look too crazy.
I know there's a basic grammar reference that had been assigned to me in pretty much every English class I had in college. I'll be damned if I remember the name though since I never bought it. But it's narrow, maybe 4 inches wide at most, the standard 11 inches long or so, spiral bound. It's a quick reference guide for grammar. Someone please tell me you know what I'm talking about so I don't look too crazy.
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King has a lot of insights in On Writing but as a guide to self-editing, it's a little thin. He only has one or two chapters on it.
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You shouldn't consider a professional editor for any phase. If you sell the book, that editor won't be there to help you with the rewrites, revisions, etc. And there will be rewrites, revisions, etc. If you want to be a writer, then write.
You shouldn't consider a professional editor for any phase. If you sell the book, that editor won't be there to help you with the rewrites, revisions, etc. And there will be rewrites, revisions, etc. If you want to be a writer, then write.
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But you are your own worst editor. Every writer needs an objective reader to make sure that all aspects of your story remain intact, that your characters are consistent, your plot is thorough, that you didn't skip a chapter, whathaveyou. To tell someone that they don't need an editor, to me, is a gross injustice and volatile to their writing. And if you contract the editor long enough, of course they will be there for all phases of the book. That's what an editor does. But that objective eye is extremely critical when forming the final product that is your book. Everyone should have a second set of eyes look at their work. Even Stephen King has his wife read through his work before he sends it out if he doesn't have an editor. Maybe you might not want a professional editor but don't negate the concept of an editor in general. No one's work is perfect direct from pen to paper. Unless you're Anne Rice. And she'll tell you so too... *shudder*
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*whispers in Donna's ear* James IS an editor... and writer.
For what you're talking about, a good crit group should do the trick. I have no intention of hiring an editor. The chances of making money are low enough as it is.
For what you're talking about, a good crit group should do the trick. I have no intention of hiring an editor. The chances of making money are low enough as it is.
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Check out the Purdue University online writing lab at
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/
Click on the Suggested Resources grades 7-12 and instructors. They provide links to some excellent resources and the grammar and mechanics section list resources to common problems such as active vs passive voice, apostrophes, etc. They also have links to style guides and to various aspects of the writing process (prewriting, outlining, editing)
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/
Click on the Suggested Resources grades 7-12 and instructors. They provide links to some excellent resources and the grammar and mechanics section list resources to common problems such as active vs passive voice, apostrophes, etc. They also have links to style guides and to various aspects of the writing process (prewriting, outlining, editing)
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*whispers in Donna's ear* James IS an editor... and writer.
For what you're talking about, a good crit group should do the trick. I have no intention of hiring an editor. The chances of making money are low enough as it is.
Um...so if he's an editor, shouldn't he want to promote editing instead of discouraging it? Or did I miss something?
I'm an editor as well and even I don't want to actually hire someone to read my work, mainly because my money's tight as it is. Oxymoronic, I know, but I'd much prefer a workshop type setting because they've worked so well for me in the past. I also attach the term "editor" to anyone that actually edits my story, not necessarily someone whose career is editing. Your best bet is to find people that are willing to read your work and give you an honest opinion of it instead of just saying 'yeah, it's good.' At least then you get to pocket the money that you have and you get your work read, two birds with one stone!
DonnaDuck;1719060 I know there's a basic grammar reference that had been assigned to me in pretty much every English class I had in college. I'll be damned if I remember the name though since I never bought it. But it's narrow said:
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Donna, now it's clearer what you meant. I thought you were advocating hiring a professional editor as a matter of course.
This is how I read JAR's post:
If you hire an editor to edit your manuscript and then sell the manuscript to a publishing house, they will have their own editors working with you on the book. At that point, you will not have access to the editor you hired, while at the same time the publishing house's editor will expect you to address the points he's pointing out (or at least approve suggested changes).
So collaboration between the publishing house's editor and you, the author, can be complicated by inserting an absent third party into the process.
In business speak: Don't outsource skills you'll need later; you need the experience, and communication about the shape of your manuscript will be a lot easier if the words are all yours.
Does this make sense?
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If you really want to improve your grammar, you have to work at it. Rather than reading books that you'll probably forget the minute after you read them (although using them as reference is not out of the question), what you should do is immerse yourself into improving your grammar.
Since I copy edit (although I will add that I am not a professional, just an intern), what I did to improve my punctuation and grammar was to study by reading some (I didn't read a hell of a lot, though), listening to Grammar Girl, editing flyers and online essays (for my own use), and made a point to know how certain punctuation marks were used.
The best thing to do is question how each sentence you write is structured; how each word is used, etc.
Grammar is something a lot of people neglect nowadays, and it's pretty sad... Some rules are outdated, I agree, but others are set up so that we can better understand each other.
Since I copy edit (although I will add that I am not a professional, just an intern), what I did to improve my punctuation and grammar was to study by reading some (I didn't read a hell of a lot, though), listening to Grammar Girl, editing flyers and online essays (for my own use), and made a point to know how certain punctuation marks were used.
The best thing to do is question how each sentence you write is structured; how each word is used, etc.
Grammar is something a lot of people neglect nowadays, and it's pretty sad... Some rules are outdated, I agree, but others are set up so that we can better understand each other.
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In my opinion, hiring someone to edit, proof, and copy edit your writing is a waste of time and money.
A good writer cares enough to at least be familiar with the rules of grammar and care about the presentation of their writing enough that they make a point to be their own editor. I've found that actual writers whom I edit are decent (if not near-perfect) with their grammar skills. I also edit a lot of PhD's (not in English) who don't know how to write at all and seem to take copy editors for granted, which reflects poorly on my opinion of them.
(To add, I consider the internet an informal haven, so if I made any mistakes... oops!)
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