Writing books for established fantasy universes

I would caution against that route, personally. A lot of the universes (Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.) certainly accept novels via essentially the normal process. The downside is that there is only one publication and distribution path. If that one submission gets rejected, either because they don't just love your writing, or because you inadvertently wrote something that doesn't fully subscribe to their cannon, or because Martha the First Reader found out her husband cheated on her that morning, then you are completely done. The novel you spent so much time on has no market...

I certainly wouldn't say that it's a safer or easier way to get writing credits. Perhaps Science Fiction and Fantasy magazines would be a better suggestion?

Amiton.

The percentage of novels that they accept for established universes is incredibly small. Not only are they usually mapped out well in advance, but they are assigned in-house to writers.

So trust me, that ain't the easy route at all.

Most franchises don't accept other people's work anymore. If you write a Star Wars novel, they won't even read it. They'll send it back to you, unopened. In fact, if one of their staff is ever even found to be reading something somebody sent in, they fire them on the spot.

Most are just like that. I think Star Trek was one of the last big names that they still accepted manuscripts from people they're not seeking out themselves, but I don't think they do anymore.

And I don't think that any franchise is going to trust their universe to an unpublished author. They want them to cut their teeth on their own work first, so they can see how that goes.

See, it's even more restrictive than I had heard (never been down that road myself). I need to shut up with my old, outdated information, don't I?

Amiton.

That being said, I think there are sites that publish fan fiction where you could put up stories and have people comment on them. I've heard it can be an ego boost.

Prawn said:

That being said, I think there are sites that publish fan fiction where you could put up stories and have people comment on them. I've heard it can be an ego boost.

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And for discussions on the merits of fan-fiction, there's a long-o (weird-o) thread over in the Roundtable.

That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing this path.

I've heard it said multiple times that short stories are the way to go.

Not just short stories in the universe, mind you - but that, too. Practicing the craft of short story writing, and publishing them in reputable magazines is a good place to start. Then, reaching out to the short story anthologies that pop up from time to time is how to get into that tight market without dedicating oneself to so much time and effort as a novel with only one market.

However, that is hearsay I cannot confirm with data. I've never done this, nor truly tried it. Mayhap someone who has will be around shortly to contribute to this discussion.

EDIT: Also, what you're talking about reminds me of something you really shouldn't neglect: Book Packagers! Do you know what they are? Go find out. http://www.absolutewrite.com/site/book_packaging.htm

Those books are written by in-house writers, handed out like assignments. The best thing to do is either A) Take a serious, hard look at your debut novel, and/or your query and see if there's room for work. or B) Write novel #2.

Your first published work is rarely your first written novel. Never give up, never surrender, just keep improving

badducky said:

That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing this path.

I've heard it said multiple times that short stories are the way to go.

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I think the short story market is somestimes harder to break into than the novel market (at least for the pro level short story market).

If you really want to write novels, then write another novel. I know a ton of people who didn't find an agent for their first novel. Having a bunch of great short story pub creds isn't really going to help you find an agent if you don't already have a great novel. And if you have a great novel, you won't need the pub creds. I personally think the pub creds help you get a deeper read from an agent (i.e. past the first page), and will tip the balance in your favor is the agent is on the fence.

Just my opinion, but the best way to get an agent is to keep writing novels and honing your craft. But I'm biased because that's how I got there (found an agent for my third ms). At the same time, there's nothing wrong with writing short stories at the same time as working on your next novel

Shorts are the way to go and get credits.

But don't expect to get in Asimov first hit.

What you'll likely have to do is start with the low-end pubs (maybe even on-line pubs) and use those lowly credits to get better credits, then use those to get semi-pro credits and them in turn to get pro credits.

There is no quick way in.

And using established characters and universes only shows you can copy. It doesn't show what YOU can create. It won't benefit your career as a newbie in any great way. In fact, it could hurt it in the short term.

I don't think that it'd hurt you at all, except in terms of it being a huge waste of time. The reason being if your first novel is a Dungeons and Dragons tie-in, you're not going to sell it.

Maybe you would have 20 years ago, but things have changed a lot.

You can write in other people's universes forever if you want, but the only way you're ever going to get them published is to publish your own works first, and then attract some powerful editor's attention and get him to ask you to write for them.

Ultimately, you're not being a serious writer if you're writing in somebody else's universe without them having come to you first. All you're doing is playing. You're writing fan fiction. It might help you hone your writing abilities, but even then, probably not, especially when we're talking about Sci Fi/Fantasy writing where there's a whole lot of work that goes into world building, where you're basically taking the lazy-man's way out. If you're using established characters on top of that... I mean, you're basically not doing any work. You're just playing.

If you try to submit fan fiction to an agent so that he can try to get it published, he's just going to laugh in your face.

Seriously, you can feel free to do it, and it might be enjoyable, and it might help you hone your craft in some ways, but in the end it's just one big ass waste of time unless you've already got an offer.

to be fair, I know that WoTC does sponsor contests that ask for the novel to be written in one of their worlds, such as Eberron - so in these situations, it's perfectly fine to attempt something within that universe.

however, the competition is *very* tough. You're competing against every DM, every player and every fan who has written/read/played in that world and thinks that their perception is better than everyone else's. Not to mention that you can't really "tweak" something too much, otherwise you throw off the company's plans for future products.

and there really is only ONE Drizzt.



having said that, going the "independent" way is probably best to create credits for yourself. That way you can show your skills at building your own universe and working within those limits as well as your writing skills.

if you check the writers who have worked for WoTC, Star Wars, etc. you'll see that they have excellent credits in a variety of fields and not necessarily all on one particular book line.

good luck!

Yeah. I know that Star Trek puts out a yearly anthology of fan-written short stories too. In these circumstances, sure, if that's what you want to do, go for it. But even then I have to question whether or not it can really be considered serious writing. To some level all writing is serious writing, I know, but I mean it in a more real way. There's writing for the fun of it or for practice, and then there's writing to get published and (hopefully) paid for it. If you choose to write in somebody else's world, like other people've already said, you really only get one shot, and the competition during these contests are stiff as hell.

We have a number of authors here at AW who do 'work for hire' in those "established fantasy (and SF) universes" You might try searching on "work for hire" for some of them. I'm pretty sure James Macdonald has written a number of posts on the topic - you can try searching the Learn Writing thread or by going to his profile and scanning his posts.

The best reason to write any book is because you love the characters/plot/situationals/universe.

I've read more than a few excellent Star Trek books, for instance, by some *very* talented authors. Not to mention a couple Star Wars books that rocked my socks.

And, of course, everyone knows that elf with dark skin and... doesn't he have swords or something?

It's not an easy field to get into, but once you're in it, you've got a solid line of work ahead of you.

Going the short-fiction route is the best. I know for the shared-universes / licenses I write for, there is a site that is run by the licensee that welcomes submissions from new authors for short stories. We landed three new authors that way, and two had a few novels published.

I do take some umbrage with:

Ultimately, you're not being a serious writer if you're writing in somebody else's universe without them having come to you first. All you're doing is playing. You're writing fan fiction. It might help you hone your writing abilities, but even then, probably not, especially when we're talking about Sci Fi/Fantasy writing where there's a whole lot of work that goes into world building, where you're basically taking the lazy-man's way out. If you're using established characters on top of that... I mean, you're basically not doing any work. You're just playing.

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While in some respects that might be true because you don't have "full control", to say that it's the "lazy man's way out" is a cheap shot. I work just as hard doing my licensee work as I do creator-owned fiction, often more so, and it can be a challenge in and of itself to work within 'set' guidelines. But you have more control than you realize. Often, the line / game developers just tell you what point to start at and what point to end with, giving you free reign within the rules of the universe.

My write-for-hire work has provided me with several years of long-term work and exposure (with more on the horizon, including invitations to work on other projects by other companies) and has helped me to sell original work as well. If that doesn't make me a 'serious writer', then I guess I'm just delusional.

It's a tough market to get into, but if you really want to do it, there are ways to go about it.

Ghost Bear said:

While in some respects that might be true because you don't have "full control", to say that it's the "lazy man's way out" is a cheap shot. I work just as hard doing my licensee work as I do creator-owned fiction, often more so, and it can be a challenge in and of itself to work within 'set' guidelines. But you have more control than you realize. Often, the line / game developers just tell you what point to start at and what point to end with, giving you free reign within the rules of the universe.

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I believe the comments you took offence too weren't meant in the way you took them. Rather that agents and publishers look on these things as fanfic and do not take them seriously.

Obviously if George Lucas calls you up and says, "Wanna write the next Star Wars book?" that's a whole different situation.

And I am sure everyone here who has finished one will agree, writing a book is never easy.

I believe the comments you took offence too weren't meant in the way you took them. Rather that agents and publishers look on these things as fanfic and do not take them seriously.

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Maybe, maybe not. And I know of several agents and publishers who don't look down their noses at us, either, but see it as viable, hard work with just as much structure and story in them - several of the writers among my licensee's stable have done 'creator-owned' novels with the larger houses, and their body of work (to that time) was tie-in only.

The "you're media tie-in, you're not a real writer" assumption is rather old. And it's disappointing to see it still permeate our profession. My craft is the same as everyone else's, there's no "free ride" option anywhere. If there is, then someone should rewind my life so I can find it.

Other universes

Many of the "other universe" and movie tie-in books are not written by in-house writers, but even the ones that are not are almost all written by established writers.

If you can't sell a novel to other publishers, they have no reason to believe you can write one for them. There are plenty of selling novelists will and able to write such novels, and the publishers can usually be assured of getting a publishable novel from such writers, so while there are always exceptions, it's a game best suited to those who are already selling novels.

I learned a LOT through writing fanfic, and I fully believe that the skills I learned there are what made it possible for me to write and sell my first novels. If you want to be lazy and derivative, you'll do it in your own half-assed universe or someone else's. But if you are committed and push yourself as a writer, no matter what you're tackling, you will learn from the experience (not to mention the in-depth feedback and editing tips fanfic readers give, which can be invaluable).

Now, for the OP's question: As others have said, it's very difficult to get tie-in work before you've been published, and you don't have total liberty to write whatever you can imagine. I have a friend who writes a lot of these for Trek, World of Warcraft, etc., and he has to run all his proposals by the editors, who have to run them by the licensors, and then sometimes has to modify those proposals and put in considerable time and effort -- all without the guarantee that the novel will in fact be bought, and with no other possible market for the story. He is extremely experienced but still has projects go bust, simply because, with so many editorial and corporate voices at work, it is tough to come up with an idea that everyone will be enthusiastic about.

So, for all those reasons, it's not the easy way in, and it's tough work even after publication.

I currently do "some" Star Trek work.

I am not an in-house writer for Pocket Books. Currently, there are no in-house writers for the Star Trek line. Now, are there writers that the editors will turn to first? Sure, because they know they can turn out a book in X amount of time who have a good grasp of the characters and enough knowledge about the series that continuity errors are kept to a minimum.

Now, normally, places like Pocket want you to have an agent first but not always. I came in through the side door because I was willing to write for their e-book series first. The editor, whom I had met at several conventions and had worked with on an Incredible Hulk anthology back in 1998, knew I was former military and he was looking for someone who could write a "Dominion War" novella that wasn't a typical run the starship in and start shooting story. So, I pitched, we kibitzed and eventually, I had a story, which led to my latest work (coming out this month) and hopefully will lead to more work in the future.

Also, you're not out a manuscript if you work in this world. No editor will look at an unsolicited manuscript for a licensed property. I have some other work out, (still waiting to get a response) for a project I heard this editor had picked up. When he told me I could pitch something, I sent a two-page pitch/synopsis to him. He didn't like X but did like Y so he told me to repitch it (which I did). Now, it's at the licensors waiting for their approval.

If they like it, then I'll have to do a (loose) chapter breakdown, which again the editor and the licensor must approve. If that's approved, then I'll be given a contract and told to have the book done in X months. Once I finish writing it, then the editor has to approve it and so does the licensor (of course, edits and revisions come in here).

Only when the licensor is perfectly happy that I haven't mucked with their intellectual property does the book go forward. But, until I get the go ahead, I do not start "writing the novel". Licensors have "interesting ideas" what puts their property in the best light, but they own the property, so that's their right.

I'm also a member of the International Association of Media Tie-In Writers, http://www.iamtw.org,which has members who've been doing tie-ins since the 1960s (Gunsmoke, The Man from U.N.C.L.E., F-Troop, etc. (mostly published by Whitman - .99c hardcovers)) to people like myself who're just getting into the business. It's been a great learning experience working with these people as well as getting good tips about possible jobs, how people work to very tight deadlines (novelizations of movies have to be out the same time as the movie, for example), and having a place to discuss contract issues/concerns.

And I agree with Claudia Gray. It's still writing, with an even more demanding audience because they have pre-conceived notions of what the character "should be like" and they're quite vociferous if you stray from that.

Now, do I want to sell some of my own stuff eventually. Oh hell yes. But, it's been a lot of fun so far doing the tie-in stuff and I'm proud of everything I've had published so far.