Writer's groups- your experiences

Shameless link to my AW thread about my own group, what we're like, and how we dealt with a potentially destructive problem (with lots of great advice from AWers):

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54708

I've belonged to one writing group or another for the last 20 years. Mine, however, were always "committed" groups--a group of people who had agreed to exchange work and critique it. They were all fiction groups, and so typically, we exchanged a segment of our novels in progress, met two weeks later to discuss and critique. Depending on the group, I love them, hated them, learned a lot, taught a lot, socialized, fomented rebellion, and otherwise did what folks do in small work groups. I am here at AW because I miss my group terribly. I recently moved and it was a face-to-face group, so...now I'm trying to make up for that lack. AW is a radically different thing--no one has any commitment or obligation to me, and there are so many folks, I never know who will comment on anything I post.

I belong to a local group. Once a month there's an open mic session where anyone can read (preference given to members), and we also have critique groups. The groups range from warm and fuzzy to "striving to be published."

I found that the critique I got from a writers workshop was vastly different from the critique groups and I've been trying to get something similar going in our area since then.

I came to AW partially because of the crit area (since I don't have anything along the lines of what I was hoping to build locally).

I have had only good experiences.

I am a member of a big writing circle with about 200 members. We meet once a month for breakfast and writerly talks. We stay together throughout the month with events, emailings, etc. Actually, tonight we are having a poetry reading!

I also have a once a month critique group in my home. We critique our novels in progress. 9 of us and it has been a great blessing!

I've been in on-the-spot groups in the past too. We'd set a timer, throw out a prompt, write until the buzzer and the go around the table reading. That was an absolutely fantastic experience! I was in one for a few years and then I founded one that went for a year or so.

All good.

I currently belong to two writers groups.

One is fairly committed and meets twice a month to exchange up to 3,000 words of written work, which is critiqued at the next meeting. (You can submit longer work, but it's not critiqued until a month later.) There is also a short program focusing on a specific writing technique, such as writing more effective dialogue or the importance of using specific details. The work is fiction, non-fiction or poetry. Many of the writers are published and the quality of the feedback is excellent. There's a range of writing talent from pretty good to amazingly good. This group functions more like the writer's workshops that I'm used to. (The average age of this group is about 50.)

The other group is the polar opposite. Most of the group members are poets with no background in writing or even English. Works are read aloud and instantly critiqued. There is no provision for critiquing works longer than 1 or 2 pages. They aren't really interested in improving their craft, they write as therapy or to have their deepest feelings understood. In fact, many of them assume that writing is divinely inspired and should not be changed once it's committed to paper. They also assume that a "real" writer is an untrained writer, and that you can only write when you're inspired.

None of them reads, ever. I honestly think most of them are there to meet members of the opposite sex. The group dynamic does vary a lot, because the membership and attendance fluctuates. (The average age of this group is about 25.)

After a number of months, I've learned that the second group is not interested in thoughtful critiques of their work...they just want to be told how wonderful it is. Some of it actually IS wonderful, but others...not so much. I remain a member of this group, for now, because one or two members do know a lot about writing and have really brilliant insights.

I co-founded a group in 1992. We're meeting today, as a matter of fact. We all write in the same genre, and have all been published since the group formed. The critiques are less valuable than they once were, as we've all gotten better, but there's still insight in another pair of eyes.

I'm a firm believer in genre-specific groups which never read the work aloud, BTW. While a more generalized group can be supportive and motivating, IMO screenwriters aren't qualified to critique romance, and thriller writers don't know jack about good poetry.

I've been in two online groups that failed. One sputtered for lack of participation, and the other turned into a jealous witch hunt. (I'm the witch, BTW, for refusing to give praise unless it's deserved, although I'm generous with encouragement.)

Of course, we can expect posts from people eager to report they don' need no stinkin' critique group and are wildly successful. Well, goody for you! Kindly allow us to share what works for us, okay?

Maryn, prickly

Tried a writing group while I was in college. It seemed more a social gathering than a writing one, in that much of the time was spent chitchatting and less was spent on actual writing, or marketing, or the business of writing and selling things.

In fact, of the dozen or so people involved, only two seemed to seriously pursue writing, continually bringing new work or talking about submissions or sales or rejections. I was one of the two. I don't remember much specific about the critiques offered, except that they often left me thinking some version of, That Doesn't Make Sense.

In any event, I figured I was better off simply showing my work to people who could buy it. It was what they said that mattered the most. I'm not sure that changing a story because of the writing group's recommendations ever helped me make a sale, but I know that making changes because editors asked for them certainly did.

That said, two college chums and one former co-worker have consistently said the most incisive and insightful things about my scribbling. All three of them read bunches and bunches, and widely. When all three like a story, it's sellable. When they don't, it usually isn't.

Nonetheless, happy to see that others have had better experiences with their writing groups.

Writing critique groups can be an essential element in an author’s growth and success. I know many fellow authors who are successful bestsellers and who still are members of critique groups. For over 10 years, I was a member of a group that met weekly. I can honestly say that without their frank, sincere criticism, I would not be published today. It’s important that a critique group not turn into a mutual admiration society. That accomplishes nothing. Nor should it be a vicious group whose only goal is to tear each other down. Again, there’s no value in that.

Being a part of a critique group means you must put your ego aside. You must realize that your words are not always golden prose sent to you from the spirit of Hemingway or Steinbeck. You are there to become a better writer and help others to do the same. And as much as you want to protect and defend your literary child, remember that there is ALWAYS a way to improve on anything you do. Good luck.

JoniBGoode said:

The other group is the polar opposite. Most of the group members are poets with no background in writing or even English. Works are read aloud and instantly critiqued.

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I joined a writers' group like this not long ago, though I think two or three of the members were once high school English teachers and the leader of the group teaches creative writing at a community college. They are the nicest people (although I think I'm the only one under 50), but I'm not too sure about how much they help. They crit hard, but after sitting through/helping out with three or four crit sessions, I'm not convinced they know what they're doing. I think they simply pride themselves in being harsh critters (there is another writing group in my area that they constantly talk about as the softies, but I have yet to go to any of their meetings).

The problem I have with them is they insist on reading out loud and in anonymity, which I have no problem with, and they insta-crit, which I think is fine, and since it's anonymous the writer can't say anything/support explain their work. This is also fine, well, it would be, if they didn't go off on 10 minute tangents debating the time period of the piece, when it's usually listed once or twice in the text. Then there is the obligatory discussion about the Korean War (don't ask). This is pretty much the discussion for every piece. It gets a bit redundant, and then there is the matter of the readers. Some of them are great, but others are slow, monotonous and stumble over every second word. Since no one else has a copy in front of them, this can kill a good piece faster than you can blink. Remember how you hated it when teachers called on "that one kid" to read out loud in school? Yeah, that's my writing group a lot of times.

I don't bring my work anymore, because the last time I had something critted, the head critter's response was, "Well, the community college has this contest, and there's always that one entry about angels. Angels in general are cliche, and I never understand why they can't find something else to write about..." Of course, I didn't say a word, but that's the last piece they'll see from me.

But they're generally such nice people, and I keep going because I'm desperate for contact with others who write. I just wish I could find a group with at least a few published authors for learning/experience's sake.

My writer's group met during NaNo last year, and we've been going strong for almost a full year now. I love those guys....they're so helpful, to the point that we're getting our own lexicon for problems, and I'm sure others look at us funny when we get going...

We still have five people going strong at the end of the 1st year, and all of us plan to do NaNo again. We meet weekly for dinner and critique 25 pages per writer, generally two writers per night, which means everyone gets their own stuff critiqued once or twice a month, depending on what's going on. We've also started doing fun writing activities...like a book review night on writer's books, or a group outing to the latest Harry Potter movie, or a cast your characters night to keep from burning out.

We really span different ages and stages in life, but we've all become close friends, and allies in our writing goals. I can't say enough good about them.

I need to find a good genre-writing critique group. I've been in a lot of workshops/groups over the years through my school, but I'm usually lucky if there's even one other genre writer/reader there. They still give me a lot of helpful feedback, mind you, but they're not the audience I'm aiming for. Sometimes that's problematic.

I've only had one truly bad workshop. It was an evening class at my old school. Most of the writers were in the 'not quite there yet, but keep trying' range, which suited me just fine because we matched up. A few of them were even genre writers, albeit bigger fans of horror than I was. There were two problems: 1. The professor. 2. The student who had taken every class he'd ever taught for years.

This star pupil got into a row with three of our classmates at some point, and started saying the meanest things to them about their work. It was awful--the professor would just let her. She was also writing the worst Mary-Sue I'd seen in a very long time, and that's saying something because I hang around fanfic writers. When I suggested she look up the Mary-Sue litmus test (and believe me I was nice about it), the prof told me that all good books are about Mary-Sues, and then went into a description of his unpublished literary novel. Facepalm.

On the last day of class, he pulled me aside and told me the only way I'd ever make it as a writer is if I stopped wasting my time on science fiction and fantasy. I just smiled and nodded, both because we didn't have our final grades yet and because I didn't think up a truly clever comeback until I was on my was home. But boy am I glad I'm not at that school anymore.

Hanging out at AW is the closest I've ever come to being in a writer's group. Mostly, being in a writer's group falls into the "things I'm doing that are Not Writing" category and it falls by the wayside.

My experience with my group has been quite good.

We meet twice a month. We used to read aloud and critique on the spot but are now experimenting with emailing ahead of time to give us more time to spend on each piece.

Like most groups, it is a mixed bag as far as talent, but our core members are all committed to writing and being published, and have progressed far beyond the basics. And everyone brings something unique to the table as far as the critiques they offer up. It's also nice just to have a group of people expecting to see something you've written a couple of times of month - it's very helpful if you're the kind who needs a deadline.

We've had a few people come and go, but beyond one guy who we were glad to see decide to drop out because we were afraid he was prime material to stage a Virginia Tech-type shooting, (I voted against him after his trial period, but apparently I was the only one who could initially see what soon became obvious to all), there have not been any disasters.

As it happens, we are looking to expand our membership. If anyone is interested in a group that meets in Portland, OR, send me a PM and I'll give you the details.

I was invited to join an established writer's group a few years ago. It was great when I started because the group had a clear leader who kept everyone focused and polite. But then he left the group and anarchy ruled. The person who bugged me the most was the guy who scribbled something in the parking lot before the meetings and got defensive if anyone suggested it might need some polishing. I eventually quit the group.

Later I started my own writing group, but we focus on writing practice and playing with words instead of read/critique. It's been going for 3 years now and I love it.

I'd love to have a good r/c group. I liked how it forced me to produce something on a regular basis. Maybe I'll have to start my own.

I've never had any group...um.... experiences.

Am I missing out?

Are the girls at least cute?

LeeFlower said:

On the last day of class, he pulled me aside and told me the only way I'd ever make it as a writer is if I stopped wasting my time on science fiction and fantasy.

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Kind of reminds me of what Harlan Ellison's English professor told him back when he was in college. Prof. said of Ellison's writing aspirations that he'd only occasionally sell a story now and again, and that those stories would probably receive little attention, then vanish, and that it was unlikely he'd ever make a living as a writer. Ellison then went on to send this fellow a copy of every story that he ever sold (now, something in excess of 72 books, 1700 stories, a number of scripts; in addition, he's won multiple Hugo, Nebula, and Bram Stoker Awards, plus many other writing awards). To his credit, the Prof. said that never before had being wrong given him so much pleasure in life.

On that happy note, go forth and prove your Prof wrong. Even if only a little wrong. (Not everyone can be Harlan Ellison.)

My experience with writing groups is that I'm told how horrible and worthless I am over coffee with a pastry of some kind present.

Which is nice, because I get the first bit all the time, and at least this way there is a doughnut or something.