Humor in Fantasy

Hapax Legomenon · Oct 1, 2007

"Jokes are against the rules, except for very bad combersome jokes cracked by guards, mercenaries, other peoples, and servitors. (It is believed that the Management in fact thinks that these are very good jokes, and treasures them.) Everyone else must be deadly serious, although the small man, some wizards, and most bad kings are allowed to have a sense of humor -- see also Thieves' Guild."

--"Jokes," The Tough Guide to Fantasyland by Diana Wynne Jones

Your standard, stereotypical fantasy novel does not have much humor in it. And, for a measure, this makes sense -- humor is created by twisting things that are familiar in new and inventive ways. Many times, a writer must assume that the reader knows little about the world in fantasy (with the exception of urban fantasy, but they usually don't have this problem. We're not talking about them here.), and therefore jokes and humor are difficult. However, metahumor, for example what many do is take the typical fantasy story, as described in The Tough Guide To Fantasyland, and poke fun at the model rather than keeping humor within the story. Often, though, too much of this will break the suspension of disbelief.

I think fantasy should be funnier. Anybody else getting to work on that? And how much metahumor will break the story?

Azraelsbane · Oct 1, 2007

One of my MCs is a riot. Out of 10 beta readers not one complained, and she was the favorite character of three of them.

I get bored if I read 500+ pages of seriousness. If you stand back and look at the big picture, life is funny. It doesn't matter what world you live in, the basics of life are generally the same. Sex, relationships, personalities of others... All laughable in one way or another.

Now, I'm not a fan of forced humor, but that's a totally different story.

auntybug · Oct 1, 2007

My fantasy books are geared at the 4th grade(ish) level. My 2 MC's are comic relief for sure. I can't imagine it without the humor. (of course I'm still in a slush pile so I'll keep you posted!)

Esopha · Oct 1, 2007

Okay, so I've got two words for you. Ready?

Terry.

Still with me? Yes?

Pratchett.

TheIT · Oct 1, 2007

I love the Tough Guide to Fantasyland. Such a great way to point out all the cliches.

My fantasy work has humor running through it on many levels. My characters deal with some pretty nasty events, and sometimes they choose to laugh rather than cry.

Hapax Legomenon · Oct 1, 2007

Esopha said:
Okay, so I've got two words for you. Ready?

Terry.

Still with me? Yes?

Pratchett.

I've read so much of him...

But he's not what I'm talking about. Most of Pratchett's stuff is poking fun at typical fantasy conventions, and also satire of current and historical issues. There's a fair amount of meta humor there, too, and also because he's written so many books he can get away with humor within the world, too, because people are familiar with it.

Get it?

Hapax Legomenon · Oct 1, 2007

TheIT said:
I love the Tough Guide to Fantasyland. Such a great way to point out all the cliches.

My fantasy work has humor running through it on many levels. My characters deal with some pretty nasty events, and sometimes they choose to laugh rather than cry.

Half of what I'm writing for NaNo is meta, but the meta is somewhat serious, at least at points -- the fact that the world is so sparsely developed causes actual problems, especially for the main character. Mostly, I was pondering the book and thinking of something I plan to include -- a main character counting down on his watch (set to the church bells, of course) to the daily tavern brawl. After a week there, he can count it down to the accuracy of a half a minute.

Esopha · Oct 1, 2007

Haphazard said:
I've read so much of him...

But he's not what I'm talking about. Most of Pratchett's stuff is poking fun at typical fantasy conventions, and also satire of current and historical issues. There's a fair amount of meta humor there, too, and also because he's written so many books he can get away with humor within the world, too, because people are familiar with it.

Get it?

Aah, so you mean fantasy books that are humorous without being satirical?

I got nothing.

I definitely agree that fantasy needs more funny. I started out writing in a Pratchett-esque vein because I wanted to have some fun with writing, but then I got bored and decided that there wasn't enough of what I wanted in my books. IE: witty banter, stupid politics and general insanity. I think my work is pretty funny. But then, I laugh at all my own jokes.

Azraelsbane · Oct 1, 2007

This isn't a good example, seeing as it's ripped directly from my novel and not something on the shelves, but here's the type of humor I deal with in my world. Note that Morghan is actually from the 21st century/our world. The cliche in the end is not out of character for her.
---

“Listen, there’s a reason I don’t deal with Arden, and Azrael insisted on being more than just transportation for this. I tried reasoning with him, but he won’t allow me to go alone.”

“Won’t allow you?” Michael laughed, but the sound held little humor. “Since when do you let anyone dictate what you can and can’t do?”

Morghan shrugged. “Some nonsense about marriage being a compromise.” She waved her hand in a flippant gesture. “He pulls shit like that out of his hat every now and again. What can I say? The man has a way with words…” A wide smile curved across her face. “Among other things.”

Sage · Oct 1, 2007

My most recent novels aren't funny plot-wise, but my MC occasionally jokes her way through horrible situations.

Sometimes it just makes the sitch worse.

Doodlebug · Oct 1, 2007

I know I've gone on about Neil Gaiman ad naseum in the other thread, but I think some of the stuff he writes is pretty funny.

Hapax Legomenon · Oct 1, 2007

Esopha said:
Aah, so you mean fantasy books that are humorous without being satirical?

I got nothing.

I definitely agree that fantasy needs more funny. I started out writing in a Pratchett-esque vein because I wanted to have some fun with writing, but then I got bored and decided that there wasn't enough of what I wanted in my books. IE: witty banter, stupid politics and general insanity. I think my work is pretty funny. But then, I laugh at all my own jokes.

My last year's NaNo was pretty funny (at least people told me so), but it was mostly satirical of how horrible an Evil Overlord's Fortress of Doom would be.

Witty banter is great when it's actually witty. Most fantasy, I think, forces this too much, and it turns out not witty at all. If you can do good witty banter, I salute you.

I mean, the only things I've got for my novel are the precisely-timed bar brawls, the fact that my MC was horribly injured just before the story started and apparently the wounds on his will make him look "err... 'distinguished'" when they're healed up, and generally a character that talks a lot without saying anything at all. For all the meta I'm including, it doesn't really sound that funny.

Deirdre · Oct 1, 2007

My only short fiction sale thus far has been humorous fantasy. Then again, what else would you expect for a short story titled "A Sword Called Rhonda"?

AceTachyon · Oct 1, 2007

Eddings threw in a bit of humor in the Belgariad.

Rick Cook's Wiz Zumwalt books and the Myth Series also do the funny. I seem to recall Lawrence Watt-Evans also doing humorous fantasy.

Also Esther Friesner's "Chicks In Chainmail" anthologies.

Deirdre · Oct 1, 2007

AceTachyon said:
Also Esther Friesner's "Chicks In Chainmail" anthologies.

Which is, btw, where Rhonda was first published.

My take on humor in fantasy and SF: the characters still have to take their world seriously; the humor needs to be in the absurdity of the premise (I have one of those making the rounds) or in the characters' interactions.

(I think that's what Haphazard was getting at.)

Hapax Legomenon · Oct 1, 2007

Deirdre said:
The characters still have to take their world seriously; the humor needs to be in the absurdity of the premise (I have one of those making the rounds) or in the characters' interactions.

(I think that's what Haphazard was getting at.)

Aha! Thanks. XP. I was having trouble finding the right words.

But the question is, how much absurdity can you get away with before the story can't be taken seriously anymore?

Deirdre · Oct 1, 2007

Haphazard said:
But the question is, how much absurdity can you get away with before the story can't be taken seriously anymore?

That tolerance level is different for each reader, alas.

Azraelsbane · Oct 1, 2007

Deirdre said:
That tolerance level is different for each reader, alas.

I agree with this. So much varies from one reader to another. You're never going to please them all, no matter how hard you try.

Deirdre · Oct 1, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
I agree with this. So much varies from one reader to another. You're never going to please them all, no matter how hard you try.

What I've learned from running humor through critique groups:

If the number of people who think it's too over-the-top is approximately equal to the number of people who think it's not funny enough, you're probably in the ballpark for most people, as long as there are some people who don't belong in either camp.

On the piece that I'm currently fluffing before submitting it to its next market, one person thought it needed to go Ionesco, and another thought it needed all the humor taken out. Most of the other people thought it was right in the ballpark.

One person took great relish when they mentioned they loved the (unstated) pun that's central to the story's plot and half the room -- who hadn't gotten it -- lost it. I thought one of them was going to fall out of his chair.

rugcat · Oct 1, 2007

A certain type of snarky humor is a hallmark of a lot of urban fantasy.

Azraelsbane · Oct 1, 2007

Deirdre said:
What I've learned from running humor through critique groups:

If the number of people who think it's too over-the-top is approximately equal to the number of people who think it's not funny enough, you're probably in the ballpark for most people, as long as there are some people who don't belong in either camp.

On the piece that I'm currently fluffing before submitting it to its next market, one person thought it needed to go Ionesco, and another thought it needed all the humor taken out. Most of the other people thought it was right in the ballpark.

One person took great relish when they mentioned they loved the (unstated) pun that's central to the story's plot and half the room -- who hadn't gotten it -- lost it. I thought one of them was going to fall out of his chair.

I alluded to William Blake in one part of my current work. I thought it was one of the most clever things I'd ever written, but about half of my betas didn't get it and thought it was a typo, so I think I'm going to have to take it out. Heh.

Esopha · Oct 1, 2007

I think this part of my current WIP is funny.

"Ms. Elizabeth Voix-Caton, sir."

Of course, you have to read it to get why.

(Hint: It's a pun. A very obvious pun. Think about it...)

jchines · Oct 1, 2007

I've tried to include both satirical humor and more character-driven humor in the goblin books. Several people beat me to mentioning Friesner's Chicks anthologies. There's also Andromeda Spaceways, which does humorous SF and fantasy. Some of that is also satirical, but not all.

And just like any particular subgenre of fantasy won't appeal to all fantasy fans, any particular style of humor isn't going to be funny to everyone. Heck, one of my beta readers even had the gall to suggest that not everyone would appreciate privy jokes...

badducky · Oct 1, 2007

And for all you punsters out there,

Piers Anthony's Xanth books are a hoot.
Watch out for the Pineapple Bombs!

ajkjd01 · Oct 1, 2007

rugcat said:
A certain type of snarky humor is a hallmark of a lot of urban fantasy.

Yes it is.....and seems to be growing in popularity.

My thought....humor's fine as long as it's appropriate for the world it's occurring in.

Humor in Fantasy

Agony is defeat

teh other evil broad

bam pow zap.

Infuriatingly Theoretical

bam pow zap.

Agony is defeat

Our Lady of Parentheticals

practical experience, FTW

Odd person

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

Agony is defeat

practical experience, FTW

Lost in the Fog

Agony is defeat

bam pow zap.

Got the hang of it, here

No Time For Chitchat, Kemosabe.

I just have to be faster.