Query vs studying an agency and making up an idea?

glendalough · Sep 30, 2007

Okay, I'm wondering about something I can't quite decide. I've been putting out my query for ages, and rewriting for much longer. So as a break, I was thinking about a new plan of attack.

What if I looked at a few agencies, then after studying what they sell, make up an offer to write for them? I'm not putting this right. You know, some authors submit an idea query, rather than an actual query of finished work.

It would read like a regular query, but the book is not written yet and it's based totally on what the agency likes.

Azraelsbane · Sep 30, 2007

As far as fiction goes, the book has to be written first. That's just the way it goes. Any book proposals for unwritten/unfinished books will be trashed.

sneakers145 · Sep 30, 2007

Proposals are for non-fiction. Fiction requires a finished product.

You can study the agency and write what they sell, but it's no guarantee they'll take you on when it's done. I prefer to write stories I love, then query.

Maryn · Sep 30, 2007

Yeah, what they said. Proposals, non-fiction.

Maryn, whose feet are cold but who can't get offline long enough to find some socks

Jamesaritchie · Sep 30, 2007

glendalough said:
Okay, I'm wondering about something I can't quite decide. I've been putting out my query for ages, and rewriting for much longer. So as a break, I was thinking about a new plan of attack.

What if I looked at a few agencies, then after studying what they sell, make up an offer to write for them? I'm not putting this right. You know, some authors submit an idea query, rather than an actual query of finished work.

It would read like a regular query, but the book is not written yet and it's based totally on what the agency likes.

I don't know of any writers who submit an idea query, rather than an actual query of finished work. Fiction or nonfiction, that's a horrible idea.

Write the novel, polish the novel, write a great query for the novel, and send it off.

Claudia Gray · Sep 30, 2007

Actually, you can sell fiction on proposal, but this is almost always something that happens after you've been published a few times. For now, you're much better off writing complete manuscripts.

Marian Perera · Sep 30, 2007

Unless what you normally write is so unusual that no one represents it, what's wrong with writing what you like, instead of trying to write what you think an agency might want? Not that you shouldn't try to appeal to the agency's tastes, just that it seems so much easier to me to write what you find appealing.

PeeDee · Sep 30, 2007

Even Bill Gibson still writes a lengthy synopsis and says he sits around on pins and needles until it's accepted.

Write the book. Honestly, it doesn't work otherwise. By the time you write the book, who knows if that's what they'd be looking for any longer.

David I · Sep 30, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
I don't know of any writers who submit an idea query, rather than an actual query of finished work. Fiction or nonfiction, that's a horrible idea.

I totally agree on the fiction side. There's a few established fiction writers who get heri advances on the basis of outlines or proposals, but it certainly isn't a practice when you're trying to find an agent. As an unknown, if you pitch a catchy idea and say you haven't written it yet, you'll probably be ignored. If you pitch a catchy idea and don't mention that you haven't written it yet, you'll really annoy the agent if you get them excited and they request the manuscript and you have to tell them there is no manuscript.

As to nonfiction, however--there are a lot of nonfiction agents who now consider a finished manuscript to be something of a liability, as it can't be readily restructured to fit the vision of an editor.

I think it's unfortunate. But the sad fact is that a lot of agents want to see nonfiction proposals, perhaps with a sample chapter or two, and consider it to be a minus rather than a plus if you have a whole book sitting there waiting.

Will Lavender · Sep 30, 2007

PeeDee said:
Even Bill Gibson still writes a lengthy synopsis and says he sits around on pins and needles until it's accepted.

Amazon published his proposal for Spook Country. It was tremendous. I mean, it was one of the most fascinating things I've ever read. He managed to squeeze Osama Bin Laden, operating systems, political blogs, Internet anonymity, weapons of mass destruction, American terror cells, and the slipperiness of mass media all into a three-page book proposal.

Bruce Baker · Oct 1, 2007

Query vs studying the market...

Nice try. Get back to the keyboard and get your work done. You know better than to think someone is going to open a letter or e-mail and say, "Hey, Joe! Come here! This guy has an AMAZING idea for a book! We HAVE to ask him to please, please write it for us!" If that was at all possible, they could get hundreds of such great ideas people are giving away right here at the Water Cooler for free. I have heard some really great ones on these threads that DID make me want to beg people to PLEASE WRITE THAT BOOK...lol

Jamesaritchie · Oct 1, 2007

David I said:
As to nonfiction, however--there are a lot of nonfiction agents who now consider a finished manuscript to be something of a liability, as it can't be readily restructured to fit the vision of an editor.

Yes, but they still pitch the book they plan to write. That's the point. The eeditor may ask for changes, for restructuring, but the he still wants the book the writer is proposing.

johnzakour · Oct 1, 2007

ClaudiaGray said:
Actually, you can sell fiction on proposal, but this is almost always something that happens after you've been published a few times.

Yep. I've done it a number of times. Usually with a summary (a fairly complete one) and the first few chapters.

PeeDee · Oct 1, 2007

Will Lavender said:
Amazon published his proposal for Spook Country. It was tremendous. I mean, it was one of the most fascinating things I've ever read. He managed to squeeze Osama Bin Laden, operating systems, political blogs, Internet anonymity, weapons of mass destruction, American terror cells, and the slipperiness of mass media all into a three-page book proposal.

Ironically, as Bill even states, his proposals have nothing at all to do with the finished book. Not really. But he keeps on writing them because it's worked so far, and he's not sure if the publisher wants them. (It's Bill Gibson. He could just send the publisher a Post-It Note for heaven's sake)

David I · Oct 1, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Yes, but they still pitch the book they plan to write. That's the point. The eeditor may ask for changes, for restructuring, but the he still wants the book the writer is proposing.

Absolutely.

I might add that it's not wise to query for a novel that isn't in truly final form. I queried a few agents when I was in the middle of a rewrite of a few chapters, assuming I'd have weeks or months (or maybe forever) before an agent asked for anything. Of course, you can see where this is going--in a few days I had urgent requests for the full from two agents and had to stall for a week to get the wheels back on the wagon.

(Furthermore, my novels deviate so far from my initial plans that I'd get myself in trouble selling an outline or proposal!)

I think what everyone here is saying is, finish your work first. Then market it. Life is simpler that way.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 1, 2007

glendalough said:
What if I looked at a few agencies, then after studying what they sell, make up an offer to write for them? I'm not putting this right. You know, some authors submit an idea query, rather than an actual query of finished work.

Well, everyone else has mentioned you should have the book written first to query, but I'm just curious why you'd write someone else's book?

To me, studying a few agencies and writing a book to their tastes is even more foolish than studying the market and trying to write a book to the audience's tastes.

There is no formula to a best-seller that I know of.

Write the book you want to read, not what you think others want to read.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 1, 2007

David I said:
Absolutely.

I might add that it's not wise to query for a novel that isn't in truly final form. I queried a few agents when I was in the middle of a rewrite of a few chapters, assuming I'd have weeks or months (or maybe forever) before an agent asked for anything. Of course, you can see where this is going--in a few days I had urgent requests for the full from two agents and had to stall for a week to get the wheels back on the wagon.

(Furthermore, my novels deviate so far from my initial plans that I'd get myself in trouble selling an outline or proposal!)

I think what everyone here is saying is, finish your work first. Then market it. Life is simpler that way.

Yep. Way back when, I made the mistake of querying an agent before I'd written my first novel because I had no clue how the process worked. I didn't say I hadn't yet written it, so she assumed I had, and called, wanting it immediately.

I still didn't say it wasn't written, but asked for a chance to do one more draft. She said fine, but that she had to have it by the first of the next month. I wrote the thing in three weeks, she took it on, and it sold, so there was a happy ending, but those were also the toughest three weeks imaginable. Pulling off a salable first draft in three weeks is not something I'd suggest to anyone.

Write the novel, polish the novel, and then query.

WendyNYC · Oct 1, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Yep. Way back when, I made the mistake of querying an agent before I'd written my first novel because I had no clue how the process worked. I didn't say I hadn't yet written it, so she assumed I had, and called, wanting it immediately.

I still didn't say it wasn't written, but asked for a chance to do one more draft. She said fine, but that she had to have it by the first of the next month. I wrote the thing in three weeks, she took it on, and it sold, so there was a happy ending, but those were also the toughest three weeks imaginable. Pulling off a salable first draft in three weeks is not something I'd suggest to anyone.

Write the novel, polish the novel, and then query.

Good Lord, how many hours per day did you write? Kudos to you for pulling it off!

Query vs studying an agency and making up an idea?

glendalough

Not so new as all that, really

Azraelsbane

Agony is defeat

sneakers145

Maryn

I Tried

Jamesaritchie

Claudia Gray

Marian Perera

starting over

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

David I

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Bruce Baker

Jamesaritchie

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

David I

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Jamesaritchie

WendyNYC

fiddle-dee-dee