Is giving exposition/backstory via a conversation acceptable?

[Ivonia]

As I decided to add more backstory to my story, I found myself in a little situation. The backstory isn't 100% neccessary, but I threw it in in case anyone wanted to find out more about how the bad guy came into power (from the good guys' point of view). I already give a little hint of how the bad guy will come to power, but I wanted to add this in to make it more complete, flesh it out completely, so if readers were to make a history chart, it would make total sense (yeah, it's a big SF/fantasy epic I'm writing).

For example, lets say that this is WW2, and the young hero is joining the war against the Nazi's. His uncle gives him some last minute advice and tells the young lad more about how Hitler came into power, and how tensions increased and how WW2 eventually broke out. (This is just an example, although my story is pretty close to this example). The hero won't really hear any of this stuff from the army when he joins, all they'll tell him is that the Nazi's are evil and must be stopped. But by having the story told to him by his uncle, he can see why the Nazi's came to power, and why exactly they're evil.

Would having the uncle tell the hero more about the bad guys and how they came to power be okay in a conversation? The hero is having trouble sleeping before he ships off and has a talk with his uncle about events prior to the war, and why it most likely started. His uncle also gives him advice on how to be careful out there, and not to judge people so quickly, as his uncle believes that not every bad guy out there is truly as evil as they seem to be.

I am trying to make the conversation interesting, I already had them talk once, and the uncle gives the hero backstory to his father and theories as to why he disappeared (no one knows for sure in the story), and why his uncle had to raise him and his sister (and no, this isn't a ripoff of Star Wars, I've come up with my own stuff). It seemed to work well, and I want to give readers the impression that the hero's uncle is wise and looking out for him regardless of what he decides to do with his life.

So, in your opinion, is having backstory explained via a conversation okay, as long as it's not just mindless banter?

The only other way I could really show this stuff is if the hero reads a history book, but I felt it was boring, and that if the backstory comes from the uncle, the hero will take it to heart more, since he trusts his uncle a lot.

Plus by having his uncle tell him these things before he leaves for training, when the hero does encounter these situations, he will be wiser (late in the story I have the hero let a bad guy go even though he could simply kill the bad guy, but I felt I should explain this more, which is why I had his uncle tell him about the not every bad guy he meets is truly evil, and his heart will let him know when that happens. This particular bad guy will also play a vital role later on in saving the hero's life in the second book outline I have planned so far, so it's not like I'm letting the hero let the bad guy go just to show that the hero is a "good guy". Almost everything that occurs in my story will have a cause and effect result, and I'm not just making certain things happen just because "OMG It'll Be TeH WiNz" if I do that).

Sorry for droning, hope that I was able to ask my question somewhere in this topic hehe.

[SRHowen]

start it with "As you know . . . " or tell it if the reader already knows that the character listening knows the information--then it's an obvious info dump.

Shawn (does this board have a spell check?)

[reph]

no spell check. You're on your own.

Hey, wouldn't it be useful if people who see colors around letters saw a distinctive color around misspelled words?

[James D. Macdonald]

"For as you know, Bob, we are both androids and so must change our batteries each four hours."

This is a dreaded (and dreadful) way of putting in backstory or information that the characters all know perfectly well but the reader needs to know. (Or the author figures the reader needs to know. Usually the reader will do just fine not knowing it.)

If the story started way back when, then start telling your story way back when. Otherwise, only put in conversation the things that those two people would naturally converse about.

(This is why writers often bring in Strangers as characters -- so that people can explain stuff to the New Guy.....

"Why's Sylvia ripping up the napkins?"

"Dunno, exactly. She's been that way ever since her skiing accident back in '97.....")

[SRHowen]

ditto, James--looking at my post it almost looks like I was saying to do it that way. I wasn't.

This bites, my ie explorer spell check doesn't work here either.

:Headbang: Shawn, who will be making many many spelling goofs--or making less posts since I will have to cut and paste or look like an idiot.

Hmm, I like the idea of putting the old post counts on the sig line---

[Mistook]

I would think you really have to make that conversation between the uncle and the young soldier very believable or it will seem like an info dump. If I were doing it, I'd first try to make it clear that the kid has gleened some of the broader strokes from reading the papers or hearing people talk.

Something like, "I don't know if I understand why Hitler is called a dictator. I seem to remember hearing that he was elected into office?"

"Yes, he was, but after he was in, he manipulated the system to remove all the checks to his power."

"Couldn't the German people see he was evil?"

"You have to understand, after WWI, Germany was in terrible shape..."


---


Okay, maybe that's not the most believable conversation either, but maybe you get my point.

[PixelFish]

I once killed a novel with an entire chapter that was an info dump in a conversation. I got through that chapter and sort of withered away upon re-reads. Not pretty. Because of this, I try to work out the info-dump information well in advance now and sprinkle it in tiny pieces all of the landscape of my story.

[mistri]

I tend to info-dump everywhere during my first drafts - dialogues, internal monologues, whereever. I try and cut it well back in revision, so that it seems as natural as possible. Otherwise it goes. Most of the time the story will still make sense to the reader anyway.

[James D. Macdonald]

Okay, maybe that's not the most believable conversation either, but maybe you get my point.

This is all great stuff for the author to know, but I don't see a single reason to put it into the book, in conversation or any other way.

If it doesn't advance the plot, support the theme, or reveal character, why put it on the page?

[Canada James]

no spell check. You're on your own.

Hey, wouldn't it be useful if people who see colors around letters saw a distinctive color around misspelled words?


Here's an add on that'll work on any form.

http://www.iespell.com/

Canada James

[preyer]

this is one of the eternal questions of writing, eh? --how to i do an info dump without *seeming* like i'm info dumping?--

obviously, there's some information that needs conveyed to put the characters in a setting. like jd, i tend to be very minimalistic. conversations are tricky: it has to sound very realistic for me to believe, and even then, well, knowing the gimmick, it doesn't tend to work well for me. were i just a reader for entertainment, i can't honestly say how it would set with me. it almost smacks of describing appearance by looking into a mirror if not done to perfection.

i just got done with a scene where i describe a secret history to my protagonish through conversation, but, fortunately, that's not only a history lesson for the reader, but one for the hero, too, so in that case i think i got away with it for the most part.

if it's the best way to convey the information, go for it, eh? :)

[maestrowork]

Iespell is great. There's also Hot Lingo if you don't use IE.

Back to the topic... I think backstories through conversation is fine, if you can put them in a dramatic or characterizational context. Don't stop the story by having the characters engaging in "let me tell you a story" mode. Basically, you need to keep things going and keep things interesting, and keep things real. The best conversation not only convey the backstories/info, but should also develop characters and their relationship together.

I just wrote a scene where two brothers were talking while they were on their way to retrieve a body. The conversation includes back stories but they are done in real conversation, not "this is what happened. Then this happened." The purpose of the conversation, hopefully, serves these purposes:

- make the transitional scene more engaging
- show the relationship between the two characters, and their personalities
- reveal back stories and more about the character's background or philosophies, etc.
- foreshadow future conflicts

When in doubt, just write the scene out. Then go back and read it out loud. See if that works. If "it works," anything is possible.

[Ivonia]

Thanks for the replies!

Yeah, I'm trying to be careful that it doesn't sound too much like an info dump. The reason I put this conversation in is because the hero's uncle has been watching the news and other events that have occurred during his lifetime. The hero's uncle even mentions that why didn't the hero study his history books to learn all this, to which the hero replies that the history books he had at the time didn't have this info (could I get away with this explanation? You know how history books don't always have all the info, esp. if it's recent, like within 10-20 years or so).

The beginning of my story in fact shows the bad guy's leader before he becomes their leader. I show how he gets his power from (an ancient evil demon), and then after that, you don't really "see" him anymore. However, by what the demon promises him, readers should be able to tell that it's not going to be good.

Fast forward 50 years, and that guy is now the leader of his race, and attacks the good guys.

The hero's uncle tells him about how the bad guys were once good, but their leader and his immediate successors were all killed some 35 years earlier (apparently by the good guys, although I sprinkle it with enough evidence so that readers can doubt that), and the bad guy initially wins an election, but is determined to have rigged it in such a way that he would've won.

He gets ousted, and vows to return, which he does, with the power given to him in the beginning of the book (supernatural help of the demon), and after a brutal twenty year civil war, he wins (the good guys don't send military aid, but they send supplies to try and help the "not so bad" guys, but they eventually lose, since the demon gives the bad guy such power they couldn't possibly hope to win against it), and begins to expanding his "empire".

Unfortunately for the hero, the expansion includes invading territory the good guys have control over, and the bad guys use various excuses as a reason to invade (similiar to "excuses" Hitler used to invade other countries for example).

The hero's uncle gives him another warning, that he should not be so quick to judge all the bad guys as evil, since he knew some of them before the civil war, and they seemed nice and well-intentioned. Kind of like how not all Germans were neccessarily evil Nazi machines/drones, some of them probably saw how bad Hitler was, but were really unable to oppose him, and I want to add something like this to my story, so that readers don't just see a neccessarily "black and white" story. Just like not all good guys are always "good" either (I'm adding a sub-plot for this, to give the hero more challenges he needs to overcome).

Of course, the hero doesn't know any of this. All he knows is that the bad guys attacked them, and killed his sister in their first attack, which is what ultimately brought him into the war. The military will also probably not tell him this stuff either, all they will tell him is all bad guys are evil and must be vanquished immediately, regardless of what happens. The military is concerned about winning the war, not about saving "good" enemies, particularly when the enemy is much stronger than they are. But the hero will learn later that things are not always what they seem.

Sorry, I guess you can see why this is sort of complex for me, but I'm hoping to make it a good story, one that people will talk about and remember for a long time.

[Writing Again]

I picked up something early on as a kid that effected this type of exposition. Two men, both in the same unit, both in the same battle, got to arguing over "What happened -- Because I know -- I was there -- I saw it all."

Having one person lecture another on facts they both know is boring -- Having two characters disagree about something that should be common to both of them can be interesting if it does not go on too long.

These two could not even agree on whether the fight started at dawn or after breakfast.

Then a younger guy jumped in with what his uncle had told him about the battle, and both of them jumped on that saying how his uncle could not have done the things he'd said he'd done.

So I'd say yes, it can be done, but do it as exposition of character, not as exposition of narrative or backstory.

[Anatole Ghio]

Back to the topic... I think backstories through conversation is fine, if you can put them in a dramatic or characterizational context. Don't stop the story by having the characters engaging in "let me tell you a story" mode. Basically, you need to keep things going and keep things interesting, and keep things real. The best conversation not only convey the backstories/info, but should also develop characters and their relationship together.


Yes, I agree with this. If the Uncle has to tell the nephew certain facts in order for the story to make sense, do it in the context of a conflict occuring bewteen the uncle and the nephew. These questions should be paramount in you mind as you order the scene: what does this reveal about the uncle's perspective of the world, what does it reveal about the relationship with his nephew, what is the status between the two characters and what changes between them at the end of the scene. Any information revealed by the uncle should be in this context and if doesn't fit, it should be taken out.

Another way to do an info dump is to use the law of contrast. Use one characters info dump and intercut it with a tension inducing scene; such as a mathmatics professor delivering a lecture on vital math points as the main character secretly searches the auditorium for a hidden bomb. By intercutting from the main plot at dramatic high points and going to the info dump scene and then back again, you build tension by drawing it out and can do an info dump under the guise of sceneic description.

Hey, if there is no spell check for this board, where can I get a spell check program for my Mozilla Firefox?

- Anatole

P.S. We have my lovely Arial! yayyy!!!

[maestrowork]

I think Hot Lingo works with any browser... not sure though.

[Writing Again]

Remember this rule: Don't tell the backstory until the reader wants to know it.


So first get the reader curious about what really did go on back then and you can tell it in any interesting manner (flashback, telling, etc) and the reader will stay with you.

[Birol]

Ivonia,

You mentioned Star Wars in your original post. Think of that story for a moment.

The first three movies (Chapter 4 through 6) were undeniable hits. There are still fans who enjoy watching them. The next three (Chapter 1 through 3) have not been so well received. Why? Because they are nothing but the backstory for the original trilogy. And while the fact that Darth Vader was really Luke's father was a dramatic, tension-building twist, it was explained well enough to satisfy the audience in the brief conversation between Obi-Wan and Luke in Return of the Jedi.

The audience did not have to have three new movies made to explain the full details of how Anakin Skywalker turned into Darth Vader because they/we had already accepted it as fact and moved on. While it was necessary for George Lucas to understand how the transformation happened so he could properly reveal it, his audience didn't particularly need that information.

[Mistook]

I have to say, with Star Wars, the newest trilogy is simply an example of an author losing all his inspiration. Everything in the two new movies we've seen leans on the classic trilogy like krutches. It's just sad. My lifetime of imagination into what the "Clone Wars" were all about, really blows away the tired chiche's on the screen.


Not to mention gigantic plot loop holes. Darth VAder builtC3P0? Give me a f****ing break! Threepio was obviously a mass produced model, according to the original movies - he wasn't some kit-job, but yet Lucas wants me to swallow that Anakin built him from spare parts. I'm sorry! The shiny, gold body plates didn't come from Radio Shack, and what about the fact that threepio is fluent in thousands of galactic languages? How did Anakin pull that off?

Why is it that in the original Star Wars movie, when stranded on Tatooine, C3P0 doesn't say, "My, but I find this desert world quite familiar! I believe this was where I was born?"

Why, when Vader sees Threepio with Han Solo in Cloud City, doesn't the dark lord of the sith say, "Hey! I built you!"

It's just silly!

Now, don't get me started on Jarjar Binks! I may do things I'll regret.

[preyer]

george lucas raped my childhood! sorry, just had to be the billionth person to say that.

try reading the classic trilogy's novelizations without gagging. if there's a writing 'rule' you're not supposed to break, it's in there.

story and filmmaking-wise, you can see where GL was headed in ROTJ. years of being a hermit billionaire warped all sensibilities he had as a story-teller. it's nothing to do with the fact we know how the characters wind-up, it's got everything to do with bad writing and style over substance. for awhile, you could slap a label saying 'mynock spit' on a jar of vaseline and sell ten million units. then the movies came out. it's also interesting to note how when you're surrounded by yes-men how everything you crap smells like roses. then lies begin to become retro-truths and you're the only one who can see the halo around your head. hopefully, being trounced by 'spider-man' was a wake up call.

anyway, it's probably safe to say that information streams is an art form, one vital to well-rounded writers. surely there are a thousand ways of doing it. seems to me the key here is knowing various ways of doing it and how best to implement a given choice in the context of the scene. inobtrusive, interesting, succinct as possible, and meaningful i assume are the ways to go on that, eh? if you write a novel set in the distant future, there's a real good chance that at some point you'll just have to flat-out give some backstory or description that's not a subtle gimmick. cd's aren't going to be around forever, so you're going to have to break down and give up a few words to describe that it's evolved into a cigarette-sized tube... but since you can't smoke in the future (which is bullsiht), maybe it's a pen-sized tube. i guess what i'm driving at here is the length and importance of the information is a great determining factor on what kind of info-dump to choose, too.

is the info-dump nature of a lot of prologues why so many people seem to have such an aversion towards them?

[SRHowen]

Here's an add on that'll work on any form.

You must have missed my post--iespell does not work in this forum. I have it. It tells you the spell check is complete with no words marked wrong. I'll live, I do in other forums with no spell check.

Shawn

[HConn]

Ivonia, all that matters is whether it works or not.

What you're describing doesn't sound like it will work.

Try telling the story without the information. If the story works, fine. Otherwise, try to make it dramatically interesting.

Did you ever watch Terminator? You don't get the explanation about Skynet and the cyborgs until well after you're curious what's going on. Two naked guys appear from nowhere. Both hunt for the same woman. Both arm themselves. Both fight like crazy, but one seems unkillable.

See what I mean? By the time we came to the explanation, the audience had a powerful hunger for it. What's more, the explanation itself was cool, making it fun to listen to.

You need to give exposition at a time the audience wants it.

[katdad]

Using a conversation to fill in the backstory is a very good way to inform the reader of past events.

Just don't do it all at the same time, or you'll put your audience to sleep before your protagonist nods off.

You might also have a "training video" shown to the trainees, or barracks chat, or maybe they're watching the TV news. These are several ways to fill in details. And don't do this all at once -- portion it out and blend it with the story line.

On a side note, You added an apostrophe to "Nazi's" at least twice. There seems to be some strange "apostrophe demon" that possesses people and makes them add an apostrophe to any nouns that end in "s".

If this is an accidental thing, please focus on your English grammar sufficiently until you can exorcize that apostrophe demon.

Nazis = plural, as in "The Nazis were not the nicest people I've met."
Nazi's = possessive, as in "The Nazi's uniform had lots of metals."

[katdad]

no spell check. You're on your own.

The best spell checker is between your ears anyway.

You can tell people who have watched too much TV and have not read enough by their habitual misuse of homonyms. Since these words sound the same, the absorbing young mind cannot discern between "their", "they're", or "there", for example. And let's not forget the "its" vs. "it's" trap.

[Maryn]

katdad, allow me to introduce you to one of my dearest online friends, Bob the Angry Flower: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif

Unfortunately, this poster isn't hung prominently in every classroom and place of business where English is written. I have asked for the T-shirt repeatedly, but my family insists I'm a grammar freak and a punctuation Nazi.

I suspect they're right.

Maryn

[Coco82]

I don't think it's detrimental as long as it's not too long. I had a character tell some of his backstory (small part) over a beer and a joint. So I think it can be done through narrration and dialogue.

[preyer]

...or between 'metals' and 'medals', k? lol.

[katdad]

Thanks for the angry flower poster. Its funny, too. (ha ha)

[Richard]

More involved version of the poster (http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif)

[katiemac]

For all you Star Wars fans, I've read articles and things which have said the first chronological films, while not well-fan received, are necessary in order to view this third film coming out in May. Apparently, this film will make those other two worthwile. :Shrug:

....But, then again, it could all be hype and this is coming from a person who hasn't seen any of the films. Period.

[katiemac]

I forgot to add a contribution to the thread when I wrote that above post. Oops.

Anyway, I think conversation really is one of the only ways to contribute backstory without everything feeling like an infodump. Character A might be in the dark about something (along with the readers) and Character B can explain. Character A might know just enough to ask questions and keep the pace moving along, so it isn't one giant narrative. I would avoid character dialogue for something like this if the readers already know the story, because then the pace of your story is dragging and can become dull.

[Richard]

Absolutely nothing happened in the first two films that couldn't be summed up in the opening credits. Observe.

EPISODE THREE: REVENGE OF THE SITH

THE REPUBLIC HAS BEEN SHATTERED BY
THE COMEDY STYLINGS OF JAR-JAR BINKS,
WITH ALL CONTROL IN THE HANDS OF A
MAN WHO WALKS AROUND WEARING
A BIG DARK CLOAK AND CALLING
HIMSELF 'DARTH SIDIOUS' THAT FOUR
YEAR OLD CHILDREN CAN INSTANTLY
SEE, BUT TRAINED JEDI WARRIORS
SOMEHOW CANNOT

MEANWHILE, ON THE SMALL PLANET
OF ANGSTALOT 5, ANAKIN SKYWALKER (HE'S
DARTH VADER, HE IS) IS HAVING ANOTHER
STROP OVER NOT BEING ABLE TO BED
SOME RANDOM QUEEN FROM A BACKWATER
PLANET NOBODY NEED CARE ABOUT,
WARNING 'OOH, I WILL SO BECOME EVIL',
AND OBI-WAN IS ALL 'BLAH BLAH
HOLY ORDER BLAH'

COUNT DOOKU IS STILL
A VERY SILLY NAME INDEED

Really, you should be able to pick it up without wasting several hours of your life that you could better spend on biting your toenails or learning how to make origami Escher pictures...

[Richard]

"Character A might be in the dark about something (along with the readers) and Character B can explain."

I'm often impressed when an author can have two characters tell each other something they blatantly both know, yet still not make it seem like an infodump - a fairly obvious example is pointing out the rules of a game, but saying it in a form that makes it clear they're warning the other person not to try anything funny.

[cwfgal]

Sometimes you can provide backstory in dribs and drabs that actually help to create more suspense. Providing enticing or intriguing tidbits here and there that hint at more to come can help keep a story flowing.

Ultimately, though, you need to decide how much backstory is truly necessary to the story, then creatively insert what's needed and get rid of the excess.

Beth

[Mistook]

One thing I do like about having a character cover some back story is that he/she can say it in their own vernacular, so it not only develops the character a bit, but usually the vernacular can "cut through the BS" a lot faster than the narrator could do.


One thing I'm fond of doing is having a character slip in and out of present tense.

"So I'm pushing the car and out of nowhere comes this drunk driver. He doesn't see me at all, but there's no time to react. Suddenly he's smashing into my door and I'm up on the hood. I don't even remember jumping."

[preyer]

a lot of the time, general backstory can be said as part of a heading, 'chapter one: a life less lived-- charbroilshire, england, 1592.' then start the story knowing when and where for general historic purposes. romance novels do this in practically every book, lol. that doesn't eliminate the problem, of course, just it helps a little bit with having to give awkward descriptions like that. i've noticed in a lot of my wife's romance books that i pick up during a dull spot around the house that backstory for them tends to have a lot of segues, for example, starting off with a town or family history, then linking up a store owner or mater before settling on the main character, often then giving up the description and a little backstory. this manner doesn't personally suit my own tastes, that's one way of doing it.

we could probably start an expansive list of examples showing how it's done, or has been, at least.

[Writing Again]

One interesting thing to do is to figure out what the reader does not need to know -- Then don't tell them.

[Birol]

Not to mention gigantic plot loop holes. Darth VAder builtC3P0? Give me a f****ing break! Threepio was obviously a mass produced model, according to the original movies - he wasn't some kit-job, but yet Lucas wants me to swallow that Anakin built him from spare parts. I'm sorry! The shiny, gold body plates didn't come from Radio Shack, and what about the fact that threepio is fluent in thousands of galactic languages? How did Anakin pull that off?

Why is it that in the original Star Wars movie, when stranded on Tatooine, C3P0 doesn't say, "My, but I find this desert world quite familiar! I believe this was where I was born?"



Mistook, that is very similar to the first thing I said to my friends after that movie ended: "If Threepio was built by Anakin, why didn't he ever turn to Luke and say, 'Skywalker? Why, I was built by a Skywalker.' " *muttering and grumbling about the implausibility of it all*

[maestrowork]

Yup, that was what I thought too. I told my friend: That's bad. In the original, C3PO didn't recognize Luke or his uncle or aunt or the name Skywalker. Neither did R2D2. But C3PO's now built by Anakin? And they were both there when Anakin's mother died (in Attack of the Clones). What gives?

[allion]

At the risk of sounding like a total Star Wars geek, the explanation I gave myself about C-3P0 not knowing anyone in movies #4-6 (the better ones) when we see him built in movie #1 (a not so good one) is that the droids have had their memory flushed/written over/purged/hard drive failed/whatever during the wars that took out the Jedi and drove Yoda to live in a swamp and Ben Kenobi to live on a desert planet.

But yes, Count Dooku is a silly, silly name.

You have to cut me some slack, though. Saw the first SW movie when I was 9, and the story just sucked me in. So, yes, I have to see the movie this May just in order to have some closure about the trilogies.

I now think the LOTR trilogy is the best movie series. Ever. (Orlando and Viggo are only part of that reason...)

[Mistook]

My problem with the idea that Artoo and Threepio had their memories purged is that... what really then is the point? They might as well be two completely different droids.

But thank you, because I forgot that Artoo stumbles into Anakin's life too. That's an even crazier coincidence if you consider that at the beginning of plain old Star Wars, it seems as if the two droids have only just met aboard the imperial star destroyer.

I mean, we're talking about a galactic empire here. There must be sixty seven bazillion trillion droids out there. What are the odds that Anakins childhood buddies end up on his star destroyer years later, where his daughter is also being held captive, just above the planet of his birth, where his son is hanging out on the surface below?

I mean if you think about it, that's how "5/New Hope/Star Wars" Begins. It's practically a family reunion.

[Mistook]

But to keep things in the perspective of this thread, I guess maybe the Star Wars example can serve as an example of what happens when you don't think out your back story well enough, or when you don't think through all the implications of a plot twist.

[SRHowen]

Or you don't reread your own scripts before writing the new ones.

Shawn

[Writing Again]

Or you don't reread your own scripts before writing the new ones.

Shawn

I have only seen the first Star Wars movie.

Sounds like he should have hired someone from either Marvel Or DC comics who knows how to keep unity intact.

[PixelFish]

katdad, allow me to introduce you to one of my dearest online friends, Bob the Angry Flower: http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif

Unfortunately, this poster isn't hung prominently in every classroom and place of business where English is written. I have asked for the T-shirt repeatedly, but my family insists I'm a grammar freak and a punctuation Nazi.

I suspect they're right.

Maryn

I have that poster, and I make Bob (er...the guy who draws Bob) draw in my sketchbook every year at Comic-con. He's a very nice guy and quite obliging. And he looks a lot like Bob too, but that might be because he wears a sort of halo of Bob petals around his head.

[maestrowork]

Maybe we shouldn't judge too soon. Let's wait until Star Wars III comes out. Perhaps Lukas has a perfect story and explanation lined up about why the droids don't remember anything at the beginning of New Hope. It could be so dramatic that everything simply makes sense.

Or maybe not.

We won't know until III comes out.

[fallenangelwriter]

OKay- whlie i have some major complaints about the early movies, the construction of c-3po is not one of them.

point 1: he resembles a mass-produced model. counter-argument: Anakin probably based him on the commercial model.

Point 2: Anakin couldn't have taught him thousands of languages: counter-argument: Anakin probably just installed some kind of language chip he won when racing or something.

point 3: memory loss: It's quite clear that droids have their memories wiped out routinely. in fact, uncle Owen repeatedly says he wants their memories deleted.

point 4: Darth Vader would recognize him. counter-argument: i don't remeber whether Vader ever meets 3po, but i'm sure he had other things on his mind. he wouldn't have said anything about it anyway, even if he had noticed.

[maestrowork]

Good catch! In the originals, I can't remember whether Vader actually met C3PO. Then again, Vader is so deep on the dark side he probably wouldn't care.

[Mark Anderson]

About backstory... you should ask yourself if it advances the plot in some way. If it is more in the category of 'nice to know', then cut it. If it is actually integral to the plot, perhaps you could do a prologue set during that period before advancing to Chapter 1 and beginning the action.

Or throw in a car chase.

[jdparadise]

Then a younger guy jumped in with what his uncle had told him about the battle, and both of them jumped on that saying how his uncle could not have done the things he'd said he'd done.

So I'd say yes, it can be done, but do it as exposition of character, not as exposition of narrative or backstory.

What I'd say to this (hi, all, I've been lurking after a failed sign-up attempt, but now that this is on a new forum I figured I'd try again for the signing-up thing, and it worked) is that the important thing is to give the characters a stake in what's going on.

Why that bit of memory resonated for you, I think, is that the individuals involved had personal involvement with the issue. It became an issue of their own credibility and, as such, made it very important to each of them.

"Emperor Joe rose to power in... what was it? 323? Yes, I think it was 323. A bad guy, from what I've heard."

Not too bad in the sentence-structure believability department, but YAWN anyway!

"Emperor Joe... that bastard. That bomb he planted back in 323 killed my grandfather. How those cowards in the Huznit let him take the reins... keep your gun at hand, boy, that's all I'll say. Keep your gun at hand."

Backstory can't always easily involve things people can directly have feelings about--if 2005 Gramps is telling Bobby about the fall of the Roman empire, there's not much stake in it for him, frex. But those emotional connections between the character and the story, I think, are key to making the reader hang with you through the diversion, so I think it's important to find that personal stake. Maybe Gramps is an anti-Semite, and he blames the Jews for the whole thing. Maybe he's a communist, and blames it on capitalism. Maybe he's Greek, and sees it as just desserts. Maybe his wife was from Rome, and he muses on how strange it is that if the Empire hadn't fallen, neither of them would have been born where they were born, and wouldn't have managed to find one another. Or a thousand other things.

That's my perspective on it, anyway, for what that's worth :)

[brinkett]

About backstory... you should ask yourself if it advances the plot in some way.

Backstory may also help to explain why a character is reacting a certain way, i.e. reveal character, explain motivation.

[PattiTheWicked]

I think backstory is one of those things I've been working on improving. One techinique I'm using with my WIP -- and used with my last ms -- is the idea of the main character reading something written by characters who are long-dead. Letters, journals, even a few newspaper clippings all come in handy. One of the best examples of that technique, IMO, is AS Byatt's Possession, which is told in a series of correspondences between two poets, and in their poetry, written a hundred-odd years before the story actually occurs. You learn plenty about each of them through their letters, and it also sets the stage for the Big Reveal at the end of the book, where the main characters figure out what's going on. Best of all, it keeps people from having to have long, drawn out info dumps worked into the telling.