writing for actors

NikeeGoddess said:

yeah hollywierd can be more successful for the male actor over 40 - but know that many find that one niche and play only that type over and over and over again: bruce willis, harrison ford, sean conery, billy bob thorton, ben affleck (maybe he's not 40 yet but he's already done enough to be a broken record). i used to say most actors will say, "been there, done that" and will reject a script with a character they've seen before but upon further examination i know it's not so black and white.

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Indeed. I often hear friends of mine complain that such and such an actor, "always plays that same character." The first example that comes to mind is Michael Douglas. And while I can't say I love seeing an actor like that continue to play the same character, I understand that it isn't necessarily that the actor doesn't know how to do anything else. To talent agents, "type" is everything.

Actors who still have headshots and resumes, and attend auditions regularly, (i.e. the vast majority of actors) are expected to "know their type." We are expected to have a demo reel to showcase our acting skills. But while we tend to want to show a good range, what we're really supposed to do is show that we "know our type." It kind of sucks!

Consider an actor like Robert DeNiro. He is widely regarded as one of the greatest living actors, which he probably is. But part of what makes him so great is his range. And the reason why he can show such a great range is that he's been able to convince the powers that be that he doesn't have to stick to his "type." He certainly has a type, but you don't see him play it all the time, constantly. Most, actors, even famous actors, don't get a chance to do that, even though they might be talented enough.

Celia Cyanide said:

Indeed. I often hear friends of mine complain that such and such an actor, "always plays that same character." The first example that comes to mind is Michael Douglas. And while I can't say I love seeing an actor like that continue to play the same character, I understand that it isn't necessarily that the actor doesn't know how to do anything else. To talent agents, "type" is everything.

Actors who still have headshots and resumes, and attend auditions regularly, (i.e. the vast majority of actors) are expected to "know their type." We are expected to have a demo reel to showcase our acting skills. But while we tend to want to show a good range, what we're really supposed to do is show that we "know our type." It kind of sucks!

Consider an actor like Robert DeNiro. He is widely regarded as one of the greatest living actors, which he probably is. But part of what makes him so great is his range. And the reason why he can show such a great range is that he's been able to convince the powers that be that he doesn't have to stick to his "type." He certainly has a type, but you don't see him play it all the time, constantly. Most, actors, even famous actors, don't get a chance to do that, even though they might be talented enough.

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Someone once said that product plus personality equals "brand."

That's what a Star is -- a product -- that is, an actor -- plus a clear personality.

That's what people go to see when they go to see a star. Not "acting" -- not even brilliant acting. They go to see a particular personality.

That's why there are some very brilliant actors who may even have leading roles in movies who will never really be "stars" in the Hollywood sense -- in the sense of being able to open a movie. In the sense that their name above the title, pretty much by itself, will make people come out to see a movie.

And there's a reason that Robert DeNiro keeps popping up in a lot of lousy movies, like Rocky and Bullwinkle and these dumb comedy parts. It's not because he's trying to expand his range. These are the only jobs he can get. He's having a hard time getting people to cast him in serious starring roles.

As he's getting older, the starring dramatic roles simply are getting fewer and farther between.

And it's worse for older starring female actors, who inevitably, when they are hitting their forties, have to make the transition from romantic lead to -- well, to what? If that's been their "brand" -- if that's what audiences have paid to see them as, the brand is gone.

Meg Ryan made her name -- her "brand" -- being cute perky and adorable. At forty-five -- she isn't any more. And she won't be again.

So what will she be? The audience for what she was is gone. So now she has to re-invent herself as something else for some other audience. But as what? And for what audience?

It's a challenge that a great many woman stars have to deal with.

Some male stars can hold on to their personae longer, often don't have to deal with it until much later (let's face it, Sean Connery never really had to deal with it -- he played the "sexy leading man" his whole professional career).

Others -- stars who play "rebel youth" -- well, you can't be pushing forty-five and be a rebellious teen. It's over. You've got to move on. But to what?

Some stars manage to successfully reinvent themselves -- become new stars in their own right, or character actors. Some never manage to make the transition.

NMS

nmstevens said:

That's why there are some very brilliant actors who may even have leading roles in movies who will never really be "stars" in the Hollywood sense -- in the sense of being able to open a movie. In the sense that their name above the title, pretty much by itself, will make people come out to see a movie.

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Phillip Seymour Hoffman comes to mind. The thing about him is that he does not really play a type. He has a basic "type" but he looks and acts completely different every time you see him, and if you don't know who he is, you don't even realize it's the same actor. For this reason, he's not one of those people who can gaurentee box office success, just because his name is attached to it. Yet he's arguably more talented than some actors who can.

Celia Cyanide said:

Phillip Seymour Hoffman comes to mind. The thing about him is that he does not really play a type. He has a basic "type" but he looks and acts completely different every time you see him, and if you don't know who he is, you don't even realize it's the same actor. For this reason, he's not one of those people who can gaurentee box office success, just because his name is attached to it. Yet he's arguably more talented than some actors who can.

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Very true. He's the Robert Duvall of this generation... a great actor who is a true chameleon... I also think that Giovanni Ribisi is another of these.

British actresses often have an easier time of it, getting older and acting in features -- the viewing public likes to watch them proceed from ingenue to love interest to full-barreled female... Helen Mirren, Maggie Smith... lots of interesting women who continue to take the stage and seize the screen...

... but for big US box office? It seems to be character roles are the bread and butter for those over 40.

Meryl Streep just might be the equivalent of a British grand dame, running into juicy roles with both barrels blazing. Can't wait to see what she does next!

Interesting topic. I'm in the process of struggling to convert my novel to a play. (see my post in playwriting) Since it takes place at a ski area, it is actually more suitable for the screen. However, not only are the female characters between age 38 and 82, they are also athletic.

Lisamer said:

Interesting topic. I'm in the process of struggling to convert my novel to a play. (see my post in playwriting) Since it takes place at a ski area, it is actually more suitable for the screen. However, not only are the female characters between age 38 and 82, they are also athletic.

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Sounds very intriguing! Hope we get to see some in SYW at some point.

I'm absolutely longing to do a horror about four older women (well, late thirties to mid-forties) stuck together for New Year's, can't wait to get round to it, but I'm a little worried about the age implications. Horror audiences seem to like their characters under thirty. Gonna do it anyway, what the hell.

NikeeGoddess said:

basically you're saying the same thing. there's not a whole lot of difference in the quality of scripts written for both older male and female actors... just that the decline starts earlier for women.
if only seasoned writers would write better stuff for these peeps... LOL! yeah, like that's gonna' happen.

i nearly wanted to cry when i saw jane fonda's monster in law
and no one has trumped what i consider the greatest fiasco: istar starring two hasbeens imo dustin hoffman and warren beatty <<<groan>>>

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One of those has beens later went on to Rain Man and Wag the Dog, and the other gave stellar performances in both Bugsy and Bulworth.

Ishtar was merely a blip (albeit a cringeworthy one) in their careers, much like Travolta stumbled and then again rose to prominence, IMO.

NikeeGoddess said:

basically you're saying the same thing. there's not a whole lot of difference in the quality of scripts written for both older male and female actors... just that the decline starts earlier for women.

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I think that is true about the quality of scripts for both men and women. However, IMO, men have a better chance at longevity, because as women get older, audiences tend to not want to see them anymore. Whether Robert De Niro is in a good or bad movie, he is still considered respectable, and worth watching.

Yes, as actors, but we do tend to shuffle off our mortal coils a number of years before the ladies. Alas, they do have the final act.

this is ideal:
-snow weather means more clothes (not bikinis and cleavage) and more clothes means easier to get body doubles to do the action stuff
-cougars - the new nickname for hot women actors over 40 who still attract the younger man and audience - think demi moore/ashton kutcher - you need a cougar for your story and a good lookin' ski instructor

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LOL! Out here in Colorado, we use "cougar" to describe the older women who hang out at the bars in Aspen. Demi Moore would be perfect for the Sherri role, a woman who my main character describes as "Brunette Barbie." The male lead is a Vietnam vet, so he's older, but there is a young hot ski instructor that has a crush on my MC.

My character also has an aunt who was in the French Underground, a spiritual adviser who is a jogging nun, a Cuban woman in her early 40s who was involved with the MC's husband. The MC's mother was a former Ziegfeld Girl, and her father's lover was a member of the Women's Army Corps during World War II. All of these women are alive and kicking.

The publisher of my novel, on which the story is based, only wants e-book rights.

Any experienced female screenwirters out there? I believe that More Magazine has a women's screenwriting contest. Care to collaborate?

Sounds very intriguing! Hope we get to see some in SYW at some point.

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Okay. It's in SYW under script writing.

I'm just saying,

Reflections in the Snow
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79261

is in Share Your Work > Plays, Radio Scripts (password = vista)

-Derek