The Grammar Nazi is stumped...

kristie911 · Sep 22, 2007

Yes, I'm referred to as the Grammar Nazi at work. *rolls eyes* I'm not THAT bad!

Anyway, here's my question.

In my WIP one of my characters names is David Jenkins. He's always referred to as just Jenkins. But for some reason I always want to put a ' after Jenkins.

I know sometimes there should be a '...but when exactly is that?

And if you can tell me why this idiot couldn't have had a name that didn't end in s, I'd appreciate if you could tell me. I get so confused!

ErylRavenwell · Sep 22, 2007

You mean a possessive case, as in "Jenkins's wife" or "Jenkins' wife"?

If that is the case, both forms are acceptable.

You put an apostrophe after Jenkins only when you can substitute "Jenkins" with "his".

Names ending with an ess are just too cool to resist.

Old Hack · Sep 23, 2007

Or you could just call him Jenkin.

Maryn · Sep 23, 2007

Eryl's steering you true. My WIP has a James, and previous ones have assorted Jesses, bosses, and such.

I found I had to be careful to be consistent with how I did possessives, because early drafts contained both James's and James'.

Maryn, also called the Grammar Nazi among her peeps

melaniehoo · Sep 23, 2007

My husband's name ends with s and I just add an apostophe, no extra s. I feel ridiculous when I say out loud that something is his (it rhymes with his, too). Try pluralizing his!

I wouldn't put the second s on Jenkins.

Bufty · Sep 23, 2007

"That one belongs to Liz. This one is Fizz's. God knows where Chris's is!"

No idea how to pluralise 'his'!! Theirs?

melaniehoo said:
My husband's name ends with s and I just add an apostophe, no extra s. I feel ridiculous when I say out loud that something is his (it rhymes with his, too). Try pluralizing his!

I wouldn't put the second s on Jenkins.

melaniehoo · Sep 23, 2007

Funny!

kristie911 · Sep 23, 2007

So it would be something like this:

Jenkins rolled his eyes. (no apostrophe)

Jenkins' eyes rolled. (apostrophe)

Right?

melaniehoo · Sep 23, 2007

That's how I'd write it. I'm sure someone else will disagree.

kristie911 · Sep 23, 2007

I don't know why I'm letting this seem so hard...didn't I learn it in grade school?

<sigh>

SinkFulloDishes · Sep 23, 2007

I'm really glad you started this thread, though, because I have a character named Marcus, and I was starting to second-guess my using an apostrophe to indicate possession.

mkcbunny · Sep 23, 2007

I may be completely wrong, but I seem to recall a past thread on this where the consensus was that the add-another-s format was supposedly the contemporary preference in publishing. Personally, I hate it. I much prefer to just add the apostrophe after an "s" name, and I think the extra "s" is awkward. I changed my MC's last name when I realized this problem would crop up.

I think the main thing is to be sure you are consistent. And isn't it up to the publisher and their style guide? If you do it one way, they might change it to the other.

girlyswot · Sep 23, 2007

mkcbunny said:
I may be completely wrong, but I seem to recall a past thread on this where the consensus was that the add-another-s format was supposedly the contemporary preference in publishing. Personally, I hate it. I much prefer to just add the apostrophe after an "s" name, and I think the extra "s" is awkward. I changed my MC's last name when I realized this problem would crop up.

I think the main thing is to be sure you are consistent. And isn't it up to the publisher and their style guide? If you do it one way, they might change it to the other.

I think you're right. I can't remember which grammar guide it was, but the last one I checked said that only Jesus could have the possessive apostrophe without another s. I think because 2 's's is quite enough already. The same probably applies to Moses. But not Jenkins.

kristie911 · Sep 23, 2007

I think I'm going to insist the jerk just use another name. I don't like him very much anyway.

ColoradoGuy · Sep 23, 2007

For what it's worth, here is what my publisher (Prometheus) says about it:

Most proper names that end with a sibilant (s, z, or a silent s, x, or z) form the possessive with “ ’s.” Examples: Berlioz’s opera, Dickens’s novel, Margaux’s bouquet.

Traditional exceptions to the general rule are the names Jesus (in Jesus’ name) and Moses (Moses’ leadership). Names of more than one syllable with an unaccented ending pronounced –eez form another category of exceptions. Many Greek and Hellenized names belong to this category. Examples: Euripides’ plays, Xerxes’ tomb; but N.B. Heraclitus’s philosophy, Prometheus’s gift of fire

maestrowork · Sep 23, 2007

It depends on house styles... Many prefer "Jenkins's and James's and Davis's" now over "Jenkins' and James' and Davis'." Be consistent.

My preference is:

Jenkins tossed his keys onto the desk. Jenkins's keys fell on the floor.

I think the only time when this is different is when the name ends with the "sess" sound, such as Jesus or as a family name: the Joneses. In that case, you would use just the apostrophe to avoid the awkward "seseses": Jesus' crown, the Joneses' house.

dclary · Sep 23, 2007

kristie911 said:
So it would be something like this:

Jenkins rolled his eyes. (no apostrophe)

Jenkins' eyes rolled. (apostrophe)

Right?

Exactly

/dclary, member, Grammar Gestapo

dclary · Sep 23, 2007

kristie911 said:
I think I'm going to insist the jerk just use another name. I don't like him very much anyway.

Let me recommend "Jensen" as an alternative.

Also, if the story rocks ass... no one's going to deny you a contract because you used Jenkins' over Jenkins's.

I noticed two typos I hadn't noticed before in The Illearth War last night -- which is probably easily my 30th reading of it. Bummed me more than I only just now noticed them than the fact they were in there.

Saint Fool · Sep 23, 2007

Chicago Manual of Style agrees:

Jenkins's, Kansas's, Marx's, Descartes's, Jones's (or Joneses')

Exceptions according to CMoS are traditionally only Jesus' and Moses' (I wonder why that is? Mac?) and Greek/hellenized names of more than one syllable with an unaccented ending pronounced eez. Chicago says in that latter case that the extra S often dropped for for reasons of euphony.

kristie911 · Sep 23, 2007

dclary said:
Also, if the story rocks ass... no one's going to deny you a contract because you used Jenkins' over Jenkins's.

You're right, of course. (Save this, I don't say it much!)

Yes, actually it does rock...so I'll quit stressing about stupid stuff now and just finish writing it.

blacbird · Sep 23, 2007

If it really bugs you, the quickest way to solve this problem is to change the name to Johnson or Brown or Miller, or something else that doesn't end in -s. Jenkins doesn't sound like the kind of name worth spending more than two seconds of angst on.

caw

kristie911 · Sep 24, 2007

I know I could, but that's his name. He could have picked an easier one.

Maryn · Sep 24, 2007

That's because Jenkins is a jerk. Just had to be difficult!

Maryn, also a jerk at times

Julie Worth · Sep 24, 2007

How about G's? Like in money. Or is it Gs?

G's looks better, yet technically wrong.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 24, 2007

s

An exception is usually made when the next word begins with "S," as well.

James' surprise birthday party, for example.

But I never add the extra "s," and see no reason for doing so.

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