Let's talk about Casablanca

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

In the movie, Humphrey Bogart's character Rick Blaine ends up being the hero, but let's consider for a moment what kind of character he really is.

Is he a good guy or a bad guy?

What do you all think?

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Sep 21, 2007

Yes.

In other words, like the rest of us, he's got good and bad in him.

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

In my film production class he is what we considered to be the gangster type who has led a life of crime but finds himself at a crossroads in his life where he must choose between the life he leads and the life he wants.

I thought we could talk about this in here because it takes some clever thinking to create complex bad guys who we can all love to hate.

Who do YOU love to hate? Who's the author? What's the name of the book? And why do you LOVE to hate them.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Sep 21, 2007

Michael Corleone, The Godfather saga, Mario Puzo.

Michael was the quintessential 'family man'. He never wanted his family's life, but circumstances drove him against what he wanted, against even what his father wanted for him. What a character! He did things I hated, but I couldn't hate Michael.

Marlys · Sep 21, 2007

Cassiopeia said:
In my film production class he is what we considered to be the gangster type who has led a life of crime but finds himself at a crossroads in his life where he must choose between the life he leads and the life he wants.

That's an interesting interpretation, but I'm not sure how your class came up with it. I don't think the script supports Rick as a "gangster type who has led a life of crime."

Captain Renault: In 1935, you ran guns to Ethiopia. In 1936, you fought in Spain, on the Loyalist side.

Rick: I got well paid for it on both occasions.

Captain Renault: The winning side would have paid you much better.

In other words, Rick has a history of fighting against Fascism, and has to leave Paris when the Nazis invade because of his anti-Fascist record. He drops out of the fight due to his bitterness and disillusionment over Ilsa, but his idealism is renewed by the end of the movie.

So: he's a good guy who withdraws into a hard shell of cynicism for about a year and a half (but even in Casablanca he covertly helps people, like the young bride who is going to have to sleep with Renault until Rick fixes the roulette wheel to give the couple enough money to pay cash for their exit papers).

Jamesaritchie · Sep 21, 2007

Good guy

Cassiopeia said:
In the movie, Humphrey Bogart's character Rick Blaine ends up being the hero, but let's consider for a moment what kind of character he really is.

Is he a good guy or a bad guy?

What do you all think?

A bit of an anti-hero, maybe, but nevertheless a very good guy. Far better than I would have been under similar circumstances. If that's me, I'm leaving with the dame, and her husband is learning all about the Gestapo the hard way.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 21, 2007

Marlys said:
That's an interesting interpretation, but I'm not sure how your class came up with it. I don't think the script supports Rick as a "gangster type who has led a life of crime."
Captain Renault: In 1935, you ran guns to Ethiopia. In 1936, you fought in Spain, on the Loyalist side.

Rick: I got well paid for it on both occasions.

Captain Renault: The winning side would have paid you much better.

In other words, Rick has a history of fighting against Fascism, and has to leave Paris when the Nazis invade because of his anti-Fascist record. He drops out of the fight due to his bitterness and disillusionment over Ilsa, but his idealism is renewed by the end of the movie.

So: he's a good guy who withdraws into a hard shell of cynicism for about a year and a half (but even in Casablanca he covertly helps people, like the young bride who is going to have to sleep with Renault until Rick fixes the roulette wheel to give the couple enough money to pay cash for their exit papers).

I agree. Noting in the script supports Rick ever being involved in any sort of gansterism. Just the opposite. If you pay attention to the movie, it basically says Rick has spent his entire life fighting against fascism.

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

Guys ...guys...don't be so pedantic. Tell me who you love to hate. Let's discuss the character not the clumsy wording of my opening post. :tongue

So..who do you love to hate...and why? what is it about them that makes them an interesting character?

Mom'sWrite · Sep 21, 2007

Is someone saying that the love of my life, Richard Blaine is a gangster? What? Don't confuse curmudgeonliness with criminality.

Marlys · Sep 21, 2007

Cassiopeia said:
Guys ...guys...don't be so pedantic. Tell me who you love to hate. Let's discuss the character not the clumsy wording of my opening post.

So..who do you love to hate...and why? what is it about them that makes them an interesting character?

You're changing the question in mid-thread. The original question was: In the movie, Humphrey Bogart's character Rick Blaine ends up being the hero, but let's consider for a moment what kind of character he really is.

Is he a good guy or a bad guy?

What do you all think?

Heck, the thread is called Let's talk about Casablanca.

But talking about Casablanca and whether Rick is a bad guy or good guy makes us pedantic?

I can never find the rolling-eye smiley when I need it...

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

Alright if you insist! Gangster type. NOT gangster. He dressed in that movie like the gangsters of the day. So sue me!

Now...lets get back to the questions..........please...oh and thank you OFG for answering...you're a star but then..you knew that.

*hugs*

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

Marlys said:
You're changing the question in mid-thread. The original question was: In the movie, Humphrey Bogart's character Rick Blaine ends up being the hero, but let's consider for a moment what kind of character he really is.

Is he a good guy or a bad guy?

What do you all think?

Heck, the thread is called Let's talk about Casablanca.

But talking about Casablanca and whether Rick is a bad guy or good guy makes us pedantic?

I can never find the rolling-eye smiley when I need it...

GEEZZZ argue much?

Fine! I am changing it. So sue me for not writing the perfect title. But I got you in here ..so answer my question!

Marlys · Sep 21, 2007

Cassiopeia said:
But I got you in here ..so answer my question!

I did.

ah, there it is

Jamesaritchie · Sep 21, 2007

Cassiopeia said:
Alright if you insist! Gangster type. NOT gangster. He dressed in that movie like the gangsters of the day. So sue me!

Now...lets get back to the questions..........please...oh and thank you OFG for answering...you're a star but then..you knew that.

*hugs*

No, he didn't dress like gangsters of the day. He dressed like nightclub owners of the day, darn few of which were gangsters.

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

I give up. :tongue

BardSkye · Sep 21, 2007

Kind of like herding cats, isn't it?

Don Allen · Sep 21, 2007

Rick is without a doubt a hopeless romantic who stands up for the underdog on his terms. His flaw is that he can be hurt, but only by the woman he loves. Rick is complex in personality yet simple in his approach to life. When he gets jilted he runs away to the farthest place he can find to heal his wounds and bury his loss, though he knows he can never forget. Only he and his alter ego Sam know the truth about Rick. He's as far from gangster mentality as you could imagine. Rick is the kind of guy we all would like to know, but never consider a good friend, Renault finds that out at the end.

Cassiopeia · Sep 21, 2007

I can see I didn't word this quite the way I intended the discussion to go.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Sep 22, 2007

Cassiopeia said:
....I thought we could talk about this in here because it takes some clever thinking to create complex bad guys who we can all love to hate.

Who do YOU love to hate? Who's the author? What's the name of the book? And why do you LOVE to hate them.

This, I believe, is what Cassi was getting at... that's why I answered with the info from the Godfather Saga. Fits perfectly. I never watched 'The Sopranos', but I'm guessing there were some of this type of character in there, too.

Darth Vader, Heathcliff, Scarlet O'Hara, Jake Spoon. The more you think about it, the more of these characters you'll come up with.

Julie Worth · Sep 22, 2007

Cassiopeia said:
In the movie, Humphrey Bogart's character Rick Blaine ends up being the hero, but let's consider for a moment what kind of character he really is.

Is he a good guy or a bad guy?

What do you all think?

The real hero was Captain Renault. He was a patriot under deep cover.

brokenfingers · Sep 22, 2007

I think the problem is that Casablanca is a terrible example of a character you love to HATE. Who can hate Rick? And who thinks Rick is the bad guy?

From the beginning, Rick is portrayed as a sympathetic character, a man forced to adapt to a hard world - yet from the get-go, the writer sprinkles clues that he is 'good':

He doesn't allow the German to enter the casino in the rear.

He despises Ugarte and mildly reprimands him because he sells papers to the desperate.

Ugarte even trusts him and leaves his papers with him. A major sign of esteem and trust in such an environment.

Renault tells Maj. Strasser that "Everybody goes to Rick's"

There are many more throughout the movie.

Anyways - if you want to discuss Casablanca - fine. If you want to discuss bad characters, then focus on Maj Strasser.

Combining Rick and 'bad characters you love to hate' just doesn't jive.

Cassiopeia · Sep 22, 2007

well, from my perspective, I loved hating Rick.

Might because I am not a Bogart fan and wish they had put someone more interesting in his place.

But I am intrigued that OFG mentions Scarlet O'hara. I hadn't even thought of her but she is a GREAT character example of what I am getting at.

Perhaps we can talk about what it is about her character that makes her compelling. Or any others.

And yes I will ask good word to change the title of this thread. Sorry folks.

veinglory · Sep 22, 2007

I think your perspective on Rick is basically confusing the hell out of people. He is dressed in ordinary suits of the period and is almost the defintive romantic anti-hero (which means a hero who doesn't posture or seek praise). He is so selfless he gives up the love of his life. I can't think of a single villainous thing that he does in that movie.

Hence the conversation going where the conversants take it.

Cassiopeia · Sep 22, 2007

veinglory said:
I think your perspective on Rick is basically confusing the hell out of people. He is dressed in ordinary suits of the period and is almost the defintive romantic anti-hero (which means a hero who doesn't posture or seek praise). He is so selfless he gives up the love of his life. I can't think of a single villainous thing that he does in that movie.

Hence the conversation going where the conversants take it.

Must I have the same perspective on him? :tongue

Oh well, you win some, you lose some.

brokenfingers · Sep 22, 2007

Well, if we're to discuss heroes and villains and characters etc, we must have some sort of standard or agreed-upon norm in order to have a reasonable discussion. Rick just doesn't meet the standard criteria for bad guy.

Maybe you can give us your reasons why you feel the way you do about the Rick character?

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