I need your help!

You could try Justine Larbalestier's outline spreadsheet. That might help you organize it.


ETA: my own mind is much rustier than it used to be, too.

jen, you realize your post count, don't you? that makes you today's 'cursed one.' sorry about that, it's just the way the cookie bounces in the big city. were this still 'talk like a pirate day' i might have been able to help reverse the curse. i'd lay low the rest of the day were i you. have a cup of tea. watch some 'lifetime.' call an old girlfriend. explore your femininity.

as to your question, man, you're so screwed. just kidding. maybe reading the last chapter and resisting the urge to rework will refresh you memory? is that it, a memory problem or an organizational one (or even a discipline problem)? i'm not one for outlines, really, but if you started outlining starting with the previous chapter...?

Things usually start coming together for me when I talk them through. I think if you start writing you'll spark more than you think. Great idea on the outline. If you can do the main facts, maybe the rest will fill in.

My dad bought a memory course once. I was anxious to get it after him...but he forgot it in some hotel in Europe! I am not kidding!

Not sure if this helps, but instead of trying to remember 'what' happened, try to remember 'why' it happened. S'all I got.

In the famous words of Douglas Adams, "DON'T PANIC!"

*grins* Ok, if you're calm (and you still have your towel) all is not lost. Memory is a pretty remarkable thing. It's all still in there and it sometimes just takes a bit of tweaking to pry the important bits out. Outlining at this stage is a great idea. Others ideas include talking to others who were involved at the time, looking at old photographs, and listening to music from the time.

When it comes to outlining I'd say, ignore what you have so far. Outline from scratch as if you DON'T have that, pretend it doesn't exist. When you have an outline from start to finish reread your last page or two and connect it to wherever it falls on your outline. Then, use the outline to guide you on from that point.

Once you've finished following the guideline you can rework the earlier chapters for continuity etc. just like you would in a second draft anyway. You will need to pay particular attention to matching the tone or you might have a noticable split in your voice around the pages you left off and took up the outline. Most of these sorts of things can be sorted out in the rewrites and edits.

Finishing the 'rest' is the most important part at this stage but by drawing up a full outline you can use it as a tool during the editing stages of your book. Keep breathing and enjoy the process of unveiling those wonderful memories. Good luck!

You, you, you. Did you ever stop to think that, maybe, I needed your help for once?

How do you outline something this far in? By outlining it. Here's what you do:

Without refresher notes, an open document or ANYTHING relating to the WIP you open up a blank sheet or a new document and, as best as you possibly can, you write down every single major point of what you wanted to write. You don't worry about what you have or don't, you just write it. You try to write it in the order it happened, or the order of importance to you, or some other scale where there is a continuum. Why? Because if you grade something from 1 to 100 it's often easier to recall that you're skipping a lot of the 70's (for example) even if you don't quite remember what they are. When you're done? You do it again. If you typed it the first time, do it by hand. Instead of listing them all do bullet points, or a pie graph or a drawing of you riding a dinosaur. But don't use the last sheet as a reference. Try and do it without any other stimuli. Just you and the task.

I'm going to give you some suggestions for recalling. They're going to seem silly. You can feel free to turn your nose up at them or not, but I assure you, they will help your memory.

Are you on an exercise regiment that makes you elevated your heartbeat for a straight 20 minute count a day every day? Do it. Eating unhealthy food? Cut it out. Do you take fishoil or CoQ10? I'd highly, highly recommend starting a small daily dose. Who were your favorite bands at the time? Listen to their music.

Silly? Absolutely. But you're the one who is trying to get back into your head.

jennifer75 said:

Well, most of the things I need help remembering only involved myself and one other person who is no longer around thank God. And, THANK GOD there are no pictures to tell the story.

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It doesn't necessarily need to be anyone involved in the incidents you're writing about or photos of those things. Any photos (like of buildings, landscapes, toys, movie posters, newspapers etc.) can jog your memory, just like listening to music that you were familiar with in that time it helps your mind trace backward to those memories by giving it fresh images to connect with. The smell of an old ice cream parlour or a cherry coke or apple and custard, or fresh leather shoes. The tastes, the sounds, the sights. Get your senses involved and you'll find it easier to connect with your memories.

jennifer75 said:

That sounds like a good idea...but I know that there will be things that I will outline that I've already written, and may be in the wrong place.

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*ponders* I was going to say, "I wouldn't worry about it, just write it again even if it 'might' be there." But perhaps you'd benefit more from some incredible software. I use a fantastic program called storylines (http://www.writerscafe.co.uk/) when I'm novel writing. It lets me create notecards for all of my scenes and arrange them into chapters and main plot threads etc. Each notecard can carry the content of the scene as well as outline notes.

With this program you could write up your outline, go over the chapters you already have and snip the scenes into place. You're going to have a solid edit and rewrite for the second draft because of the piecemeal approach to the first draft but it could certainly help get you back on track with your first draft.

...or you could read the thing instead of recalling ghosts of the past.

in a broader sense, the interesting concept here is 'how do you untrunk abandoned material?' well, if you're like me, you're going to have to reread most if not all of the stuff that's there and see what you've got. or you could pin suggestions to a dartboard and see how that works out. in my version, however, you might be better off just rewriting what you've already got (assuming you're a better writer now than you were then) as there's a good chance that'll happen anyway. then finish the story.

or go to a hypnotist.

btw, mega millions is up to $60M. if you win, expect a small (i.e. large) bill for my help.

your's honestly isn't a new problem for those of us who've decided to resurrect old, incomplete material. i've looked at some old stuff, and even when i bothered to jot down notes, i've wondered where the hell i was going with it. it takes some thinking about the story ~ you probably don't even write stories the same way now, eh? so you might drive yourself crazy trying to remember the way it was 'supposed' to be as if that really mattered. finish the story in the manner by which you're a writer now, imo.

if you insist on taking the easy path, here are some suggestions:

rub canola oil all over your body. this releases the 'writing daemons' clogging your 'memory pores.'

listen to the A side of led zeppelin VI. it's a proven fact that i just made up that this massages the brain muscles condusive to artistic endeavours. and remember: phonographs sound better than CDs.

have a one-nighter with said Sir Jerkalot. if you do this while listening to LZ VI and covered in canola oil, you'll be shooting CoQ10 out your major orifices (sorry for the dig, john, lol).

eat a lot of yogurt, take a yoga class, and stuff holistic hippy herbs up your nose. then hug a tree. it might not help your memory, but the tree will probably enjoy it before being cut down for post-it note pads, cigarette paper and anti-smoking literature.

nah... reread it, buckle down, rinse, repeat, and do what you have to do, that thing being a pain in the rump, but that which you know in the back of your mind, however dread-inducing it may be, you'll wind up doing. these things are like salvage jobs. with the idea that you'd probably change much of the story given your standards today, why regress into a style no longer fitting you just to get it done? reread it, salvage the good stuff, rewrite were required, and finish it the way you'd finish the story as you currently write. ODing on gensing might help define fuzzy memories, but so what? it's a harsh way of saying it, but be a writer about it and finish it as you would any other piece of fiction.

writers, after all, are deal-closers.

er, IV, nor VI.

preyer said:

writers, after all, are deal-closers.

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Trying like hell to figure out why you get snippy when someone strays from your OP intentions but you have no problem dictating to others that theirs isn't the real concern.

I gave advice to remember. I think it's good advice. Just trying to help.

i was teasing on you, john. you gave advice, i gave mine, jen will pick any advice she wishes.

my 'snippiness' refers to a single thread where i asked repeatedly for people not to turn it into a debate about the value of critiques (if you can find another example, do so, else don't imply it's something i do constantly). i stated my intentions and expectations clearly and nice enough, and yet some people choose to attempt to turn it into critique bashing. i didn't want a debate, i didn't want someone's opinion of why they think critiques are bad... i said if they want to argue it, either start their own thread or rekindle one of many threads already in existance, so that's why i came down hard on the first person who tried bashing critiques, to set the tone of what kind of response others will get from me if they do the same. i'm hardly looking for a circle jerk there, i even said debate about specific 'rules' are welcome, but i don't want someone turning it into another endless argument.

sorry, jen, didn't mean to hijack your post in any way. i'm trying to offer good advice, too. while we're on the subject, i think john's advice is good towards staying healthy and improving your memory. i think my advice is practical and realistic.

a lot of the advice you've been given is centered around spurring your memories. or at least your best recollection. fine, great. however, it's like i said, a salvage job where you're going to wind up rewriting it anyway using the best of what's there. i mean, come on, now, what's more likely to refresh memory, listening to 'you give love a bad name' a dozen times or actually rereading the story that's there? jen, you're going to have to reread it anyway, why not try out the obvious first *then* hang upside down from a metal bar in the basement if you think that'd help? even if the blood rush to your brain helps, it still strikes me as an organizational and discipline issue, and i can't see where all the seaweed in the ocean is going to cure those problems. i hate to make it seem like i'm knocking anyone's ideas (but i probably am, and for that i apologize), but i have no qualm with pissing a few people off if what i'm saying, which is what i believe, is really what you need to hear (it's no secret that brutal honesty is sometimes the best motivation). hell if i know if diet supplements, aroma therapy, and madonna videos are going to solve your problem. i know one thing that definitely won't, and that's not putting a lot of hard work into it. that's why i say start with the hard work as that's probably going to be the real 'cure.' i don't expect you to change your lifestyle merely to remember a story ending from five years ago. nor do i expect you to dredge up poorly copied, pirated videos off utube, sniff an old stinky boot you used to go line-dancing in, or start drinking mountain dew because that's what you used to drink. my, ah, 'expectations' aren't easy, but they're realistic.

i think i can say without hyperbole that every single one of us wishes they could remember every lost idea we had as we were driving down the highway, or just as we were falling asleep, or inspired by a bit of music or, well, the list of little inspirations are endless. have any of us with regular jobs not been thinking about their story at work and come up with a bit of dialogue or a detail or twist that for the life of you you couldn't remember thirty seconds later before we were able to write it down? i'm sure something like that has happened to every single one of us. and while we wish we could remember that brief, brilliant snippet, it's gone. usually forever. ce la vie. but, the story remains to be finished ne'ertheless. the show must go on with or without the nuggets of gold what fall through the holes in our pockets.

this is absolutely no different, only the scale is larger. you forgot. maybe you'll remember, maybe you won't. maybe it's actually best if you didn't, who knows. since you feel compelled to finish it now, it can only be either worse, no difference, or better. you've only got a mere 33% chance of screwing it up. that's better odds than vegas will give you. and, hey, think about it ~ a baseball player who hits 33% of the balls thrown at them is a star.

you're apparently still emotionally attached to it. i feel that only by delving into it will you arrive at some insight leading to a story resolution. trust in the fact that being more mature and experienced will give you an even better ending than the one you planned originally. if you happen to recall the original version at some point, you've always got the option of using it. for the record, had you asked for happiness, i'd not have replied at all.

I think the point we were getting at however is that the book is ABOUT those memories. It's not a dusty relic that's been in a closet for a few years but a project she started working on more recently and is struggling to finish because her mind is revolting against memory lane.

If it were an old book that got tossed aside thought lack of interest or a similar writer's block years ago I'd agree completely, either trash it and start over fresh with no idea what you wrote before or read through and THEN trash it and start over with an idea at least of how bad the original version was.

But in this case we're after the novel stored in the recesses of personal history. The anecdotes and memoirs of an actual life. Sure they can be prettied up (or uglied up) to make them more entertaining but it will generally be more interesting and impacting if based of the facts. So, to get those past the locks of a failing memory we have to resort to alzheimer's divergents.

why did i get the idea that this had been trunked? ah, well.

so there's a point that you've stopped at, with no ending and nothing to go on at all inbetween? this is why i always finish my ending while about a quarter of the way through. i assume that this will sold as fiction, right? given that your ending will suit the story and genre and be satisfying to the target audience (the beginning of a story is what sells it, but it's the ending that readers remember), if you have the slightest idea of what that ending will be like you've got a pretty huge reference point.

i can't say if holistic junk will help drag out 'old' memories or just help you focus on new ones. i can't say if watching movies and tv shows that you watched then will help. they might, they might not. taking an analytical approach will, if nothing else, provide a skeleton to add meat to. that could mean letting the fictional writer part of you take over if those memories truly went poof.

i don't know how much more you've got left, either, jen. indeed, i don't know anything about the story. outlining has never worked for me when i've hit a stumbling block, but i don't really outline as much as jot notes down in random order that i think of them. if your story stays within a more conventional format where you'd have that order of climax and conclusion, whatever, you've got a broad framework right there. anything you can remember is a reference point. if you've an idea for the ending, you can retro-engineer the story and connect any reference points. it might not be pretty, but it's getting towards getting it done. consider the ending is my best advice at this point, because i think the ending is worth knowing about fairly quickly once a story has been started and there's no outline. if i don't know whereabouts how it's going to wrap up, i don't know where my goal is and will just spin my wheels forever and i won't know where things are supposed to go. it would just be pure chaos.

i don't know if it'll help, but one of the things that goes towards having a satisfying story is character growth. at the beginning they're a certain way, at the end they're changed, usually for the better. this is still fiction, after all, no? lol. so take a minute and consider how the character has changed. that may even suggest an ending. and, really, isn't everything inbetween those two points essentially filler providing evidence for the change?

i can only speak for myself when i say putting your writing hat on and rereading it is likely going to be the best realistic memory trigger. i believe when you lose your keys, you retrace your steps before you call your spouse at work and ask them if they know where you put them.

Maybe the very act of forgetting can become a trope. Perhaps you could have a chapter titled "Memory," and in that chapter you're trying to remember this incident but your writing is intentionally transparent -- i.e., the reader can see you struggling to come up with the details.

At the end of this chapter, perhpas you could take preyer's (tongue-in-cheek) idea and go to a hypnotist. I think that's a weird, interesting idea that I'd like to read about in a memoir that could, if used correctly, be like a metaphor for your search for truth -- or something.

Just a thought.

you're right, will, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. at the same time, it's my understanding that if a person wants to be hypnotized, they can be. if they don't, they won't.

i had a buddy who'd smoked camel cigs for more than thirty years. he paid $50 to one of those specializing in hypnotherapy (or whatever they call it) and a month later he was pissed off because he'd gotten a new cartoon of cigs the previous month and they'd gone stale because he hadn't smoked any. i hate to say it, but i'd place more stock in a hypnotist helping me remember than i would in a lot of other things.

your idea could work, will, if that's something that would fit the style of the book. impossible to say since *someone*, not mentioning any names, but it rhymes with 'ben', didn't tell us that stuff, lol.

a great, insightful young writer is a wonderous thing because they're so rare. i imagine the temptation for some people would be to remember stupid things they did or thought and use their maturity to put more of a glossy shine on certain things than there really was. some people make think about it and realize, 'wow, i really was a shallow git ten years ago.' fictionalized memoirs, i imagine also, may even leave out little details like how the person had a one night stand, had an abortion as a result and then discovered they had some minour form of VD, i.e. stuff they might not exactly want dear old dad to be privvy to, or at least make him start wondering, lol. gawd knows i'd never admit to masturbating four times a day when i was a kid, never, not in a million years will anyone ever hear me say that. i just feel sorry for that poor couch in front of the tv playing cinemax on fridays, and i'm going to leave it at that. (the thing that sucked about cinemax's 'dirty' movies is right at the critical moment they'd cut to the woman's hand gripping the sheet and it'd be like, oh, well, *thanks for that cut-scene, jackasses*. because, you know, that's exactly what i want to see right then is lady chatterley's/the happy hooker's/cybil danning's hand taking up the entire screen. hm, maybe i've strayed a bit off topic here....)

so, jen, did you hit the mega last night? someone did. i can't stand it when idiots win the lottery. the powerball was over $300M recently, and some old guy hit it and took the cash option. instead of sticking to his original plan (i.e. the smart one) and putting it in a blind trust that would protect his identity, i understand the lottery talked him into exposing his identity. i want to say the cash option was $140M, so what's that, about $80 after taxes? whatever it is it's a ridiculous amount of money for one person to suddenly have (and i'd heard he has no plans on giving any of it away because he believes people should earn their money ~ what a friggin' hypocrite). anyway, this dumb ass gets in the newspaper, further spreading his name, and says, 'i just hope people will leave me alone.' yeah, dumbass, that's usually what happens.

Recently we opened up a huge tub of pictures. With all the moving we did a few years ago, the best I could do to organize all our photos was to put them all in one big tub.

We looked through it & found pictures going back to before we were married, pictures of old apartments & friends not seen or spoken to in years.

That was over a week ago & we are still talking about old things that we remembered, things we haven't thought about in YEARS. I remembered stories to tell him about people who had both known in college, and we were able to summon up details like names & acne & weird hair & who was related to whom, etc. -- that I couldn't believe we remembered.

What can you do to summon up this period of your life? Music that was in, pictures, talking to someone you knew then, etc.? Sometimes just hearing an old song will bring up an old memory that had been well-buried.



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