Revolver: single action vs double action

No dept in the 60's would have used single action revolvers.

The most plausible thing would be a simple misfire, where the round doesn't go off. If the revolver has been dropped earlier, it could possibly misalign the firing pin. Or, if the ammo is old there could also be a misfire.

Or, he could cock the revolver, which makes a distinct snicking sound, perhaps meaning to to intimidate the bad guy. When the revolver is cocked it takes much less effort to pull the trigger, and many accidental discharges are due to that. Knowing it could go off at any second is a true fear inducing factor if you're pointing it at someone. (Not recommended)

Mike Martyn said:

Modern revolvers are double action ie: firing a round revolves the cylinder to the next chamber. Is it possible for a double action revolver to malfunction and not rotate thus forcing the shooter to manually rotate the cylinder? How would you do that?

Would any single action revolvers still have been in service with police departments in the 1960's or would they be laying in great grandpa's dresser?

My MC is sneaking up on the bad guy and his gun has to make a bit of noise before it fires alerting the bad guy and allowing him time to hit the MC with a shovel before he gets off a round.

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Like "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?

I agree with rugcat about the intimidation factor. Also, revolvers are much more accurate in SA than DA, so, if your shooter was worried about accuracy you could work it that way.

Mike Martyn said:

Modern revolvers are double action ie: firing a round revolves the cylinder to the next chamber. Is it possible for a double action revolver to malfunction and not rotate thus forcing the shooter to manually rotate the cylinder? How would you do that?

Would any single action revolvers still have been in service with police departments in the 1960's or would they be laying in great grandpa's dresser?

My MC is sneaking up on the bad guy and his gun has to make a bit of noise before it fires alerting the bad guy and allowing him time to hit the MC with a shovel before he gets off a round.

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If you know your way around a single-action, then you'll know how to cock it very quietly, or nearly instantaneously with firing (have you ever seen the videos of the guy who is the fastest shooter in modern times, who can fire a single-action revolver 5 times per second?). Even I am only slightly acquainted with revolvers, but can do both of those things (I'm also a girl ). I just experimented on a single-action .44 and I could probably sneak up on someone before they hit me with a shovel.

In my mind a misfire followed by the MC being so shocked that he looks down at the gun kind of stupidly gives him time to be knocked out by a shovel, more than the first scenario.

If you would like a really funny visual, I was in a shooting competition once, and using an automatic that kept misfiring, kept "stovepiping" the spent casings, which means that basically they were getting stuck halfway out instead of being completely ejected. I was wearing a hooded jacket (hood down), t-shirt, and blue jeans. I was very embarrassed because it is very difficult to be in front of a crowd, under pressure of a timed event, and your equipment not working at all. Several men were standing around behind me trying to help me out (informal contest). It finally ejected a casing properly & the d@mn thing went up in the air & got caught by my jacket, I guess. A scorching hot casing went down the back of my shirt. With my husband & about 20 people standing around, some of whom were ex-military, I started to dance a little jig, freaking out because I could feel that thing burning me everywhere it touched me. In my hand I was holding a fully-loaded .40 S&W automatic pistol. That I had forgotten I was holding. After accidentally pointing it at about 5 people while I did my little jig, my husband managed to safely disarm me, saying, "what on earth are you doing?" About a second later I jiggled my right leg just right, and a casing came out of the bottom of my pants leg & clinked across the cement floor, loudly clinking because everyone was quiet, watching me in amazement. What followed next was riotous laughing and nearly 5 minutes before the shooting competition could continue. Then a lecture about putting down the gun before attempting to remove hot casing from pants.

Totally unrelated, but my funny experience with a misfire, and then a crazy casing. I do know that if your gun misfires, especially if you are very tense (such as sneaking up on someone) the first thing you do is be a little surprised & then look down at your gun, LOL.


wee

Hi wee - Are you sure it was a model 40 and not a model 41? My model 41 hangs up pretty consistently (but I love it). Puma

I just bought a SA 22 with interchangeable LR barrels, most accurate gun I've ever shot and a blast to practice with, but it has a safety feature which locks the barrel if you don't lock the hammer in place before firing so you can't just bang at the hammer for multiple shots.

wee said:

If you know your way around a single-action, then you'll know how to cock it very quietly, or nearly instantaneously with firing (have you ever seen the videos of the guy who is the fastest shooter in modern times, who can fire a single-action revolver 5 times per second?). Even I am only slightly acquainted with revolvers, but can do both of those things (I'm also a girl ). I just experimented on a single-action .44 and I could probably sneak up on someone before they hit me with a shovel.

In my mind a misfire followed by the MC being so shocked that he looks down at the gun kind of stupidly gives him time to be knocked out by a shovel, more than the first scenario.

If you would like a really funny visual, I was in a shooting competition once, and using an automatic that kept misfiring, kept "stovepiping" the spent casings, which means that basically they were getting stuck halfway out instead of being completely ejected. I was wearing a hooded jacket (hood down), t-shirt, and blue jeans. I was very embarrassed because it is very difficult to be in front of a crowd, under pressure of a timed event, and your equipment not working at all. Several men were standing around behind me trying to help me out (informal contest). It finally ejected a casing properly & the d@mn thing went up in the air & got caught by my jacket, I guess. A scorching hot casing went down the back of my shirt. With my husband & about 20 people standing around, some of whom were ex-military, I started to dance a little jig, freaking out because I could feel that thing burning me everywhere it touched me. In my hand I was holding a fully-loaded .40 S&W automatic pistol. That I had forgotten I was holding. After accidentally pointing it at about 5 people while I did my little jig, my husband managed to safely disarm me, saying, "what on earth are you doing?" About a second later I jiggled my right leg just right, and a casing came out of the bottom of my pants leg & clinked across the cement floor, loudly clinking because everyone was quiet, watching me in amazement. What followed next was riotous laughing and nearly 5 minutes before the shooting competition could continue. Then a lecture about putting down the gun before attempting to remove hot casing from pants.

Totally unrelated, but my funny experience with a misfire, and then a crazy casing. I do know that if your gun misfires, especially if you are very tense (such as sneaking up on someone) the first thing you do is be a little surprised & then look down at your gun, LOL.


wee

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Is there a "run and hide under a desk" emoticon? That would be a good story for a firearms safety course.

Puma said:

Hi wee - Are you sure it was a model 40 and not a model 41? My model 41 hangs up pretty consistently (but I love it). Puma

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Puma, you get more interesting all the time!

The .40 was the caliber -- it is a Performance Center 945 in .40 caliber. What a beautiful gun. What a shame it can't eject a casing, even after being sent back to the factory once (though now it is more like half the time instead of every single time). I got it for used price, but it had only been fired a couple of times, all the papers still inside, got to send it in & get my official S&W club membership, lol. The original owner probably fired it & it hung every time & he gave up. Hubby contends it just needs more rounds fired through it to break it in.

I looked up the 41 -- very nice. Is yours a target pistol? Very pretty, too. I wonder what S&W is doing that these both hang a lot.



wee

Mike Martyn said:

My MC is a 13 who's only aquintance with guns is his single shot 22 boy's gun and the cap gun he got for his birthday.

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In this case, the possibilities seem wide open. 13-year-old boys don't usually act with precision and proper prior planning, so it seems very plausible that one could be trying to do this very manly thing & end up flattened out.

Now my mental picture of this scene is *totally* different. It's funny what you imagine when you only have a very few facts. Actually it seems more intriguing knowing that he is a kid & thinks his crazy uncle is digging his grave ...


wee

Mike Martyn said:

...Is it possible for a double action revolver to malfunction and not rotate thus forcing the shooter to manually rotate the cylinder? How would you do that?

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If the trigger pawl breaks, the cylinder won't rotate when the trigger is cycled. For that matter, if the cylinder ratchet is messed up, then the pawl will have nothing to engage and then, once again, the cylinder won't rotate when the trigger is worked. Presumably, one might then grab the cylinder for a manual rotation. Dunno 'bout that. Maybe a real revolver guy or gal will chime in.

(Worse news, though, would be cylinder lockup, in which case your MC would be SOL, said revolver about as useful as a hammer.)

Would any single action revolvers still have been in service with police departments in the 1960's or would they be laying in great grandpa's dresser?

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SA in service in the sixties? Doubtful.

My MC is sneaking up on the bad guy and his gun has to make a bit of noise before it fires alerting the bad guy and allowing him time to hit the MC with a shovel before he gets off a round.

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Well, if your MC has a DA revolver that works properly, there's no need to make any sound at all with it short of BOOM! But since you're keen on him having to manually rotate the cylinder, hmm... Not sure what it would sound like with pawl and ratchet out of commission. There's always the cylinder stop, though, and whatever noise that may make.

Of course if your villain is a Sinanju master, he'll just hear the tendon in your MC's finger tensing against the trigger, then whirl around and bean him with the shovel.

Perhaps some other distinctive sound like the clinking of un-taped dog-tags?

Had a similiar situation in the army on the rifle range. I fire a rifle left handed and M16s are right hand only weapons, require a brass deflector for lefties that were crap and not generally available. Hot brass struck my neck and went down. I stood up in a hell of a hurry, tried to shake it out while keeping the gun pointing down range. The reaction was the same as if I started popping off rounds all over the place.

Hi Wee, Yeah, my model 41 is a target pistol - 7&3/8" barrel with a muzzle break - highly accurate (except when it hangs and I get frustrated). On mine, it's a failure to eject - the casing doesn't make it all the way clear of the gun before the slide comes back and catches it. And, depending on how far out the shell is when it gets hit by the slide, it can be a bit tough to clear. I bought it used back in the 70's for - ready? $125.

Mike - Yes, I remember your story. On your question - let your MC pull the hammer back to cock the gun first - there's a very distinctive sound that's unmistakable. Any double action revolver can be cocked and fired as single action (actually, the preferred way to do it). The owner of the shooting range we go to said once that firing double action is the mark of a greenhorn. Puma

Puma said:

can be cocked and fired as single action (actually, the preferred way to do it). The owner of the shooting range we go to said once that firing double action is the mark of a greenhorn. Puma

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I guess S&W Bodyguard shooters are greenhorns

Tiger said:

I guess S&W Bodyguard shooters are greenhorns

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Trigger pull and accuracy are related but then if you are in a real hurry or you are trying for surprise cocking should be dispensed with.

No argument here. That's why the things became DA to begin with. What I meant was that some of the S&W Airweights and Bodyguard models (forget the numbers) don't have external hammers.

Tiger said:

No argument here. That's why the things became DA to begin with. What I meant was that some of the S&W Airweights and Bodyguard models (forget the numbers) don't have external hammers.

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The only 38 I every carried was a plain jane for commercial security. Have the new ones addressed the trigger pull or is the lack a external hammers purely for safety?

Kentuk said:

The only 38 I every carried was a plain jane for commercial security. Have the new ones addressed the trigger pull or is the lack a external hammers purely for safety?

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It's so the hammer doesn't catch on your clothes as you're trying to pull it out of its concealed location.

Kentuk said:

The only 38 I every carried was a plain jane for commercial security. Have the new ones addressed the trigger pull or is the lack a external hammers purely for safety?

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What rugcat said.

The Airweight I fired was one of those new (at the time) scandium framed, titanium cylindered, token barreled .38s. The long trigger pull felt no different than any of the hammered, DA revolvers I'd fired.

I went through a box of +Ps and ended up with a sore hand and a 12" group at four yards. Not my finest hour.

I find a light pistol harder to shoot accurately, shoot better with a .45 auto then a .38 revolver, so these new fangled pistols are even lighter and they eliminate the hammer with out addressing trigger pull? So I guess the greenhorn S&W bodyguards make up for it with super fantastic training?

re single action: What they said.

If the gun the kid has is less than twenty years old and a cop's gun, then it's probably a semi-auto. Look at the funny stories above.

If it's an older gun, or the story's set in the 70's or earlier, then the simplest way for him to make a noise is what the others have said--have him cock the gun. If he's not familiar with guns, he probably would anyway--that's what they do in the movies, right? That sinister clicketyclick is the very essence of scary-gun-hood.

Only nobody who knows what he's doing with a gun like that would bother from that close up. And part of the reason is just what you're writing--you make noise and the bad guy isn't surprised anymore. If you don't want "funny," then emphasize how shocked he is at just how FAST a real person reacts when he hears a gun being cocked behind him...

Terry L. Sanders

Kentuk said:

I find a light pistol harder to shoot accurately, shoot better with a .45 auto then a .38 revolver, so these new fangled pistols are even lighter and they eliminate the hammer with out addressing trigger pull? So I guess the greenhorn S&W bodyguards make up for it with super fantastic training?

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I think Taurus was also making Ti framed revolvers in .357 magnum. That cannot be comfortable. Good thing I only shoot at paper... I'd as soon test drive a moped running a V12 Packard engine.

Oh, I love .45 ACP. Not exactly the most souped up cartridge, but even factory loads are great. Recoil to me feels more like a shove than a kick--not as sharp as, say, 9mm.

I always wanted to try out a S&W 625 to see how the cartridge would feel in a revolver.