Fictional Female Knight

DwayneA · Sep 16, 2007

I had a brainstorm for my upcoming fantasy story involving the female knight. Here's the info:

In the beginning, women weren't allowed to serve in the military. But due to her athelitic abilities and her desire to be a role model to others, she decided to join the army in secret. Cutting her hair short enough and training under a false name, she was recruited into the cavalry, and in the first battle afterwards against an invading army, she singlehandedly defeated the enemy leader. At the celebration, she reveals her true gender, and everyone is so amazed by her skills, that the king issues a new law allowing women to serve in the military, seeing as how women can still fight as skillfully as men.

This is just a suggestion. Feel free to comment or make suggestions.

aadams73 · Sep 16, 2007

This sounds exactly like Mulan.

DwayneA · Sep 16, 2007

oops, should I change that?

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

DwayneA said:
In the beginning, women weren't allowed to serve in the military. But due to her athelitic abilities and her desire to be a role model to others, she decided to join the army in secret. Cutting her hair short enough and training under a false name

This sounds like Alanna, from the Tamora Pierce novels. It does raise a few questions for me, though. How does your female character disguise her breasts and the shape of her body? Does she have a naturally low voice? Is no one suspicious of the fact that she doesn't need to shave her face, that she doesn't bathe along with the rest of them and that she won't urinate where anyone can see her?

she was recruited into the cavalry

She stayed away from the stallions when she was menstruating, I hope.

and in the first battle afterwards against an invading army, she singlehandedly defeated the enemy leader. At the celebration, she reveals her true gender, and everyone is so amazed by her skills, that the king issues a new law allowing women to serve in the military, seeing as how women can still fight as skillfully as men.

I don't mean to be harsh, but these events are unrealistic and dull. Misogyny isn't the kind of thing which is instantly eradicated by one action from one woman.

DwayneA · Sep 16, 2007

hey this was just an idea I had! I couldn't think of any other reason why she would join the military!

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

DwayneA said:
hey this was just an idea I had!

Since you said "Feel free to comment or make suggestions", I took you seriously.

I couldn't think of any other reason why she would join the military!

You haven't given any plausible reason why she wants to join the military. She has athletic abilities, but that doesn't mean her only option is the military. She could be a dancer or an acrobat. And if she wants to set an example to others - how does lying to one's recruiters or superiors set an example? What if she had been killed or taken prisoner in the battle - how does that set an example? Unless she knew from the start that the author wouldn't let her lose, she had to have considered that possibility.

And in a realistic world, someone is going to make the same comments I did. At the moment your character reveals that voila, she's a girl, people should be annoyed that they were deceived and that she placed herself in danger of not just death but rape at the hands of enemy soldiers. It shouldn't all be praise and congratulations for her.

DwayneA · Sep 16, 2007

hey this was my mother's idea! I couldn't come up with any other reason for her to join the army!

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

DwayneA said:
hey this was my mother's idea!

How is this supposed to make a difference?

You post something here and invite suggestions/comments. Am I supposed to say something different if it's your mother's idea, as opposed to your own?

I couldn't come up with any other reason for her to join the army!

Try reading more.

JBI · Sep 16, 2007

Feminism (proving to the world etc.(Mulan))) /escape of marriage/ escape from abusive family (probably father)/ Nationalism / Calling from god (Joan of Arc) / Sadism( desire to kill people)/ Sexuality (perhaps you can tie in some strong lesbian themes).

This isn't that difficult if you think about it. I can come up with dozens more.

The idea is by no means "unique" to you, though it isn't as developed as other fantasy archetypes. I would recommend thorough research about women if you intend to do this (specifically anatomical and psychoanalytical). If this is something you wish to pursue, keep in mind that your target audience will probably be YA females (Tamora Pierce/ Mercedes Lackey type readers) and that these young women will generally be interested in the female experience. Overall not a bad idea, though it is just an idea and definitely needs serious alterations if you intend to pursue it.

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

JBI said:
Sexuality (perhaps you can tie in some strong lesbian themes).

That reminds me of the novel The Warrior's Tale, the story of a band of elite soldiers who all happen to be lesbians.

JBI · Sep 16, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
That reminds me of the novel The Warrior's Tale, the story of a band of elite soldiers who all happen to be lesbians.

There was also a group of homosexual soldiers during the time of Alexander the Great who were thought to be immortal.

But outside that I think the real feminine warrior comes from the Amazons, and that weird spear woman from Conan.

J. R. Tomlin · Sep 16, 2007

DwayneA said:
hey this was my mother's idea! I couldn't come up with any other reason for her to join the army!

You couldn't come up with any "other" reason for her to join the army? What reasons do men have to join the army? Women join for exactly the SAME reasons--and sexuality is NOT one of them. The idea that deciding to join the military means a woman is a lesbian is -- I'm trying to think of a word that isn't a flame. Let's just say I disagree with that strongly.

As far as the "women aren't in the military but a single woman manages to get in and change everyone's minds" that was done to death in the 70s and is now considered beyond cliche. I suggest reading some fantasy with female main characters. The idea that it would change things is wildly unrealistic. She would have at the least been kicked out, and depending on the society, very possibly killed or stoned to death.

As far as the problems mentioned, since in the Civil War (and probably before but record keeping wasn't that good) there were a number of instances of women masquerading as men in the military. The problems were hardly insurmountable. Women have bound their breasts for millennia and, guess what, people rarely notice when a woman is menustrating--neither do stallions. I used to ride one for heaven's sake. They aren't sexually interested in women, I assure you.

Stories have been written dealing with the subject. The problem isn't that it is insurmountable, but that it is dated and cliched.

Don't even consider writing a story about a female military leader without having read Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon.

DwayneA · Sep 16, 2007

well why do people join the army?

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

DwayneA said:
well why do people join the army?

To earn a living. Or because it's expected of them. Or because they're drafted. Just three reasons I came up with off the top of my head.

As I said before, try reading more about this.

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

J. R. Tomlin said:
guess what people rarely notice when a woman is menustrating--neither do stallions. I used to ride one for heaven's sake. They aren't sexually interested in women, I assure you.

My bad. I read this in an essay by Poul Anderson; I have no personal experience with riding stallions.

As for the other problems, while I don't think they're insurmountable, I would expect a realistic and believable story to address them. Passing oneself off as a man shouldn't be as simple as cutting one's hair short and taking a new name.

Dave.C.Robinson · Sep 16, 2007

Some join the army because the idea of combat fires their blood. They think the hero-tales were exciting and glorious. Others join because the they feel it is their duty to defend their country against the foe. Some are brutal sadists who who want to kill people legally. Some because they think it's the only way out of a dead end situation. Some to pay for their education.

There are as many reasons as there are people.

waylander · Sep 16, 2007

In the medieval setting - because it is a better alternative than scratching a living as a dirt-poor peasant farmer or because you're not the oldest son, so you're not going to get the land and title and you have to build your own fortune.

Luc2 · Sep 16, 2007

If your setting is medieval-ish, people were often drafted or levied, as it also was called. Also, often the oldest son inherited the parents possesion (if there ware any), the other children were to find a way to support themselves (sons) or married off (daughters). In bad times, the army was a sure way to get food and clothing and maybe some money (or a sword in the belly).
Maybe your female knight is the youngest, can't find a suitable husband (maybe a scarred face or something, or just unwilling to give up the dream of a handsome bard or whatever) and needs to find a way to survive afer her parenst kick her out?

Histry Nerd · Sep 16, 2007

Dwayne -

To back up what Tomlin said, there are several published accounts of women disguising themselves as men to fight in the American Civil War. You might try looking up some of their stories, both the nonfictional accounts and the stories based on those accounts. I read one several years ago called Look Away by Harold Coyle--the woman joining the Army is not the main plot, but is a major subplot.

I'm sure you can find many accounts from other wars as well. Try to discover how they did it, and why--that should give you an idea how you can do it for your story.

Hope this helps.
HN

DwayneA · Sep 16, 2007

my mom came up with this idea, let me know how it is

say a very close friend of hers is enlisting in the army. Being outgoing and loyal to her friends, she's scared that her friend will get hurt or worse, so she enlists as well. They both get recruited, but during their first battle, as she feared, her friend is killed and she is unable to stop it from happening.

if this is good, what could possibly happen next? What kind of conflicts must she endure?

Toothpaste · Sep 16, 2007

Dwayne - are you getting everyone but yourself to write this book? First you have your mom's idea now you want us to add to it.

I know you must be feeling more insecure with all of our comments about the female knight thing, at the same time it sounds to me like right now all you have are ideas. Why not put aside asking questions for a while, write some of the book, see what happens. Don't be scared of making mistakes, and remember the first time anyone starts writing their book, it's really really rough, some call it the "vomit on the page" stage!

ChaosTitan · Sep 16, 2007

aadams73 said:
This sounds exactly like Mulan.

I thought the same thing. However, Mulan did not join the army for herself. She joined to save her ailing father's life. She didn't do it for respect or glory or to change things. She simply didn't want her father to go to war and die.

Dwayne, there are several good reading suggestions already given in this thread. Once again, I'll suggest you pick up The Woman Warrior by Maxine Hong Kingston. It retells the original Mulan legend.

The trick in telling a good story isn't to regergitate old ideas or to do something because you couldn't think of anything better. If you can't think of your own ideas, you need to read more. Not just fantasy fiction, but also nonfiction. Battle histories, biographies of historical women, combat training. Heck, even pick up a few of Deborah Tannen's books on communication differences between men and women.

Marian Perera · Sep 16, 2007

DwayneA said:
if this is good, what could possibly happen next? What kind of conflicts must she endure?

Those are questions you need to answer, because the kind of answers I would give to those are the kind of answers which would work for my characters, my themes, my style and my books.

Your answers, which come from your brain, will work for your characters, your themes, your style and your books. If you have no answers yet, then read. And write. Asking questions, throwing up ideas and saying "hey what do you think of this one? No? OK, how about this one? No? All right, here's another one!" is not going to help you as much as reading and writing.

I personally wouldn't want to write about someone who enlists in an army because they're worried their friend will die, unless this person can pull strings such that they are always going to be beside their friend in combat or battle and no order they are ever given will clash with their primary goal of protecting their friend. I also wouldn't want to be the friend of such a person, because I've never liked being over-protected.

Irysangel · Sep 16, 2007

Does it matter if it sounds like Mulan? Or Tamora Pierce? One could even go so far back as to say that it sounds like Eowyn from Lord of the Rings.

It doesn't matter. Each story has the same concept - girl dresses up like man to join the army - but each is played out very differently. Write the story the way you want to, and don't worry about if it's too close to someone else's. Chances are that your story will end up completely different, no matter how 'close' you think it might be.

Deirdre · Sep 16, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
To earn a living. Or because it's expected of them. Or because they're drafted. Just three reasons I came up with off the top of my head.

Because it's the only way they can see of paying for college.

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