Sim Sub Strategy

popmuze · Sep 14, 2007

So how's this for a plan? I've got one favorite piece of writing that I want to simultaneously submit to five or six publications, all mid-level literary reviews that accept sim subs as long as you notify them in advance.

In my boffo cover letter I will explain that I'm sending this out to several other publications.

Do you think this will A) get the piece read any faster; B) result in six quick rejections; C) make no difference whatsoever.

Not having a pecking order among the six, I will gladly accept the first one to accept me.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 14, 2007

Sim-sub

Send it to six magazines, and if it doesn't sell, it will mean you've lost five chances to rewrite it.

Kate Thornton · Sep 14, 2007

Pop, I'd send them out one-by-one. I know they accept simsubs and you're in a hurry to hear back, but I think I'd rather wait for an acceptance than get a quick rejection.

But if you are adamant in sending them out simultaneously, can't you do it 3 at a time?

qdsb · Sep 14, 2007

Well, popmuze, I know the more experienced James and Kate have given their advice, but I'll own up to the fact that I just recently simsub-ed a short story to seven literary journals.

Yes, as James pointed out, if all seven reject it, then that's six fewer chances to revise.

But, in my case, there are more than 100 other markets (more if I'm willing to submit to nonpaying markets and online markets). So there are still plenty of opportunities for me to submit a revised version.

That's just my $.02.

And I'm pretty sure the markets I submitted to don't generally provide feedback on rejected submissions. (I'm hoping for at least a handwritten note on the rejection slips.) So submitting one at a time doesn't seem ideal to me.

Adam Israel · Sep 14, 2007

To answer the opening question, I don't think it will make any difference. All six markets explicitly stated that they accept sim subs.

Just keep in mind, if you do sim sub to markets that don't explicitly state they take sim subs, assume they don't. You run the risk of getting yourself blacklisted if you sim sub to markets that don't accept it and editors talk to each other.

Just follow the rules and notify them in your submission, and withdraw immediately if it gets accepted somewhere. I've noticed sim subs are more common with some types of markets (flash vs. short story markets, for example).

pdr · Sep 14, 2007

And in my e-mail...

from Glimmer Train the other day the editors remarked that they'd had a problem with sim subs. They found a story in their July submissions they really liked from a new author and e-mailed acceptance only to find he'd sim subbed it and let another mag accept it first. I bet the fee wasn't as good as Glimmer Train's and you can bet where his name is posted.

Don't do it!

blacbird · Sep 14, 2007

My personal preference is to send zero submissions at a time. For me, that has worked equally well as either sending one at a time, or sim-subbing.

caw

dahosek · Sep 15, 2007

Ya, in the 16 rejections so far this year, there's been no feedback. My strategy is that after ten rejections on a piece, I revisit it and see what I can do to improve it. So sending out to 7 at a time isn't going to change things. It also means that I would be capped at 10 simsubs at a time (although I find simsubbing to be generally a pain).

Ironically, the quasi-randomization of journal submissions that I use tends to privelege magazines with reading periods and magazines that allow simultaneous submissions. Those who respond quickly and allow simsubs also end up getting priveleged in the rotation.

birdfeeder · Sep 15, 2007

I have to agree with what's already been said. None of the rejections I've received from literary mags have provided any editorial advice, so I say if the mag accepts simsubs, do it! Most lit mags work on the academic calendar and take almost as long to reply.

SimSub! Do it!

nevada · Sep 15, 2007

Ive gotten some very valuable editorial feedback on some stories which i wouldnt have been able to utilize if I had sim-subbed. Im with James on this one. It's just not worth the trouble.

drachin8 · Sep 15, 2007

My guess would be C) make no difference whatsoever.

I don't have any actual supporting evidence or experience for my opinion (it is purely speculation), but it doesn't seem fair that sim-subbing would make your work read faster than those not sim-subbing, but nor does it seem fair that you would receive automatic rejection letters since the magazines have stated they accept simultaneous submissions.

I imagine a meeting might be more along the lines of deciding whether or not to extend an invitation to be published to writer A or B, sending notification with request for verification to winning writer while holding on to backup writer's piece, and extending acceptance or rejection to losing writer based on winning writer's response.

But, as mentioned above, I don't have anything other than pure speculation to base this on.

Surely there must be some system set up in those markets that accept simultaneous submissions, though!

As a side note, I am not a huge fan of sending out simultaneous submissions, but it looks like you are at least making sure all of your markets accept them and notifying the markets that you have done so, so it is all cool in my books. Hehe.

-Michelle

johnnysannie · Sep 16, 2007

The way that sim subbing can be perceived as "faster" is that the writer is submitting the same MS to multiple pubs at one time, an act that could take much, much longer if submitting to one market at a time.

I do sim sub on occasion but solely to pubs that accept them and I always make a point to mention the fact that it is a sim sub in the cover letter.

I have had to withdraw a few but I have never had a problem with editors because of it because they were aware of the possibility. Nor has it put me on a "list" of any kind because I have sold other submissions to the same editors.

Deirdre · Sep 16, 2007

I don't understand why people are so in a hurry to collect rejection slips.

The faster you collect rejections, the faster you get discouraged.

Stijn Hommes · Sep 17, 2007

If there is a chance the publication will give editorial advice, I wouldn't simsub, but when they don't - especially if they make a point of saying so - I would do it.

johnnysannie · Sep 17, 2007

Deirdre said:
I don't understand why people are so in a hurry to collect rejection slips.

The faster you collect rejections, the faster you get discouraged.

It's not an issue of getting rejected faster - it's about not tying up individual manuscripts for months - and sometimes more - at a time.

Since I began sim subbing - again, just to publications that state they accept them and am up front about the fact the submissions are being sent elsewhere - I have had more acceptances than rejections.

What works for me, of course, doesn't work for everyone and each writer has to find their own way toward what works, what does not.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

I would narrow your sim to 2 or 3. Listen to James.

johnnysannie · Sep 17, 2007

KTC said:
I would narrow your sim to 2 or 3. Listen to James.

James and I sometimes see eye to eye; sometimes we agree to disagree.

He's a McCoy; I'm a Hatfield (this is no joke)

We've both been published, working writers for about the same length of time but we have very different ways of doing our job.

I stick with what works.

KTC · Sep 17, 2007

Yes...I don't always agree with what James says either...but in this case I was suggesting that the OP, popmuse, take his advice.

lostlore · Sep 17, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Send it to six magazines, and if it doesn't sell, it will mean you've lost five chances to rewrite it.

It could also mean that the writer is submitting to the wrong markets.

blacbird · Sep 17, 2007

Deirdre said:
I don't understand why people are so in a hurry to collect rejection slips.

The faster you collect rejections, the faster you get discouraged.

Nope. Trust me on this: You get discouraged equally fast if the rejections come verrrry slowly, or you get no response at all, SASE be damned (increasingly my experience).

The only thing that discourages discouragement is an acceptance. At least, that's my theory, having no hard data from personal experience to back it up.

caw

Deirdre · Sep 17, 2007

blacbird said:
Nope. Trust me on this: You get discouraged equally fast if the rejections come verrrry slowly, or you get no response at all, SASE be damned (increasingly my experience).

I've seen more writers give up because they've gotten 10 rejections in 3 months than those who got 1 rejection in that three months but collected 10 over a period of time.

I agree with you that acceptance helps, but you're more likely to get it as you improve as a writer -- which means writing more, which means time.

I disagree that acceptance is the only thing that helps. Encouraging rejections also help.

Deirdre · Sep 17, 2007

drachin8 said:
My guess would be C) make no difference whatsoever.

I don't have any actual supporting evidence or experience for my opinion (it is purely speculation), but it doesn't seem fair that sim-subbing would make your work read faster than those not sim-subbing, but nor does it seem fair that you would receive automatic rejection letters since the magazines have stated they accept simultaneous submissions.

I can say that, for the market I read for, we read in date order (except that there's more than one editor, so we each pick groups and read oldest to newest within that group), so simsubbing would make no difference at all response-time-wise.

However, it would take more time at the acceptance end, because then we'd need to verify that the piece was still available.

Not everyone sends notes of withdrawal, and that's a must.

blacbird · Sep 17, 2007

Deirdre said:
Encouraging rejections

Oxymoron alert.

caw

Deirdre · Sep 17, 2007

blacbird said:
Oxymoron alert.

I've received two recently, actually. I'd like to think I've also sent more than a few.

Soccer Mom · Sep 17, 2007

I have had encouraging rejections. They exist and they do dull the pain. But an acceptance kills it like a shot of morphine.

Sim Sub Strategy

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

Jamesaritchie

Kate Thornton

Still Happy to be Here. Or Anywhere

qdsb

Cynical Idealist

Adam Israel

Formerly known as StoneTable

pdr

blacbird

dahosek

birdfeeder

nevada

drachin8

post-apocalyptic bunny

johnnysannie

Deirdre

practical experience, FTW

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

johnnysannie

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

johnnysannie

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

lostlore

blacbird

Deirdre

practical experience, FTW

Deirdre

practical experience, FTW

blacbird

Deirdre

practical experience, FTW

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist