Over the transom. When does it become a good idea?

Rolling Thunder · Sep 13, 2007

So, you've fished your novel around to a few agents but nary a nibble has it brought. It's a good story and you've taken time to write it well, but maybe the idea is a little outside the normal genres agents tend to sell. You pose the question to an agent on their blog and they tell you they've never heard the word anthropomorphic but it sounds like porn to them (True response, btw.).

When is it a good time to bypass the agents and go tempt the dreaded publisher slush pile?

DeleyanLee · Sep 13, 2007

When it suits you, honestly. Depending on the genre you're writing in, there are still avenues for the unagented, and a query letter is never an unsocilated submission--and if they request you send in something, it's no longer unsocilated.

However, when dealing with publisher slush piles the concept of patience takes on an entirely new definition. Just know what you're getting into.

PeeDee · Sep 13, 2007

The ironic thing is how often, thanks to the internet, anthropomorphic and porn wind up being together anyway. Shudder.

I dunno. The strategy I've heard (amongst others) that I've particularly liked is where you submit your story to the publisher. In theory, they bite and offer you a contract. You then approach an agent and say "I have this book, I have this contract, for this publisher...will you represent me?"

I think it falls to personal preference, and that one's mine.

jodiodi · Sep 13, 2007

I've gone straight to the publishers and am waiting for responses to my submission of requested material (a full and a partial). If I ever get so good I'm having too many irons in the fire at any one time, I might go to the agent search first again, but as for now, I'm going to see what happens.

Shane Fitzsimmons · Sep 13, 2007

It should be noted that fishing your novel to a "few" agents isn't enough. Part of the biz is to keep pounding them out there. Just because it's not an instant (or even quick) success doesn't mean a thing.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 13, 2007

Slush

Honestly, unless you're aiming at very small publishers, the best time to try publishers directly is when you've completely exhausted the list of agents.

If an idea doesn't appeal to an agent, it's even less likely to appeal to a publisher, and darned few top publishers even accept manuscripts directly from writers. And most of those who do accept such manuscripts never actually buy one.

It sounds like your query is being rejected, rather than the manuscript. If this is the case, the query is no more likely to work with editors than it does with agents.

jodiodi · Sep 13, 2007

It also depends on your genre. There are quite a few 'big' publishers who accept direct submissions in the romance genre. Harlequin (various lines) comes to mind off the top of my head. The two mine is at are also not small publishers and they accept unagented material (though mine got to them through face-to-face discussions with said editors).

JamieFord · Sep 13, 2007

I agree with James--make sure you've exhausted your list of agents first.

BUT, the question that pops to mind at this point is--how much outside feedback have you had? Maybe you're too close to the work. It might be written so narrowly that the manuscript is a bit daunting to those without an intimate knowledge of the subject matter. I could be wrong, but if agents are passing on it, you need to at least lend credence to the possibility that the manuscript might need another round of edits...

Namatu · Sep 13, 2007

If words like "anthropomorphic" are potentially problematic, could you rephrase to avoid it in the query?

Rolling Thunder · Sep 13, 2007

Namatu said:
If words like "anthropomorphic" are potentially problematic, could you rephrase to avoid it in the query?

It seemed like the proper description initially. My first query was rejected, so I rewrote it, and on that query Dan Lazar at Writer's House asked for the full MS. He passed, not high concept enough for him, but I subbed to other agents afterwards. Same exact query. It's been a steady stream of rejections since then.

I still have a list of agents to query but the problem seems to be it isn't exactly YA or MG. It might mean I have to strike the tag "anthropomorphic" or change the market genre. Anthropomorphic just seems to be a hard sell at the moment, as far as agents go.

Gillhoughly · Sep 13, 2007

Keep trying.

You might want to tweak your query letter to exclude the really big words. While some may truly not know the meaning, others are looking for some sign in the query that your story will appeal to a large audience. If it's heavy on the college words, that can put people off.

(I had a vet who would point to my dog's leg and call out each part in Latin while looking at me as though seeking some kind of awed reaction for his smarts. I got another, less pretentious caregiver for my unimpressed pooch. :tongue

)

Run the query past some beta readers and/or the Share Your Work forum. Sometimes good writers write sucky queries. I'm a really good writer and do the worst queries ever.

I made the round of agents with my first book, which back then was an impossible to sell cross-genre that none of them wanted.

It did finally sell off the slush pile. NOW the genre is called "urban fantasy" and they can't get enough of 'em. Go figure. :Shrug:

Good luck!

Monkey · Sep 13, 2007

This is all conjecture, but maybe the agents see the word "anthropomorphic" and think, wow, there's no way that kids are going to get that...

I know some kids that would, and I also realize that reading about the concept and knowing the big word for it are two very different things.

Still, an agent's probably spending less than a minute reading your query. If they see a big, obscure word in the query for a MG/YA work, they may assume that the author isn't catering to his/her target audience.

I'd suggest striking the big words and posting your revised query on the SYW board, along with the same explanation you gave earlier. Then the pro's around here (I don't consider myself one!) can give you more concrete help.

Best of Luck!

Monkey · Sep 13, 2007

Oh, and as to the original question about querying agents vs publishers...

I'd query both, but after revising.

BardSkye · Sep 13, 2007

Gillhoughly said:
I made the round of agents with my first book, which back then was an impossible to sell cross-genre that none of them wanted.

It did finally sell off the slush pile. NOW the genre is called "urban fantasy" and they can't get enough of 'em. Go figure.

Maybe you started the genre without getting credit for it.

dclary · Sep 13, 2007

Rllgthunder said:
So, you've fished your novel around to a few agents but nary a nibble has it brought. It's a good story and you've taken time to write it well, but maybe the idea is a little outside the normal genres agents tend to sell. You pose the question to an agent on their blog and they tell you they've never heard the word anthropomorphic but it sounds like porn to them (True response, btw.).

When is it a good time to bypass the agents and go tempt the dreaded publisher slush pile?

I don't even know what a transom is.

MidnightMuse · Sep 13, 2007

dclary said:
I don't even know what a transom is.

I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya!

And throw you over the tranny, and into the bay.

meldy · Sep 13, 2007

Stephen King made close to 3 million dollars before he ever even talked to an agent (sorry, reading "On Writing" right now lol)
Just a thought..........

DeleyanLee · Sep 13, 2007

dclary said:
I don't even know what a transom is.

You ever see the old-style (and I mean OLD) doors that have the little windows over them for ventilation? That window is a transom.

My father, as a fairly young man, remembers getting beaned by a package someone tossed into an open transom just as he was reaching for the door.

Arkie · Sep 13, 2007

dclary said:
I don't even know what a transom is.

A transom is an opening over the door or through the door, and the term "over the transom" came about many years ago, when writers dropped their manuscripts through those openings into publisher offices. I suppose today FedEx and postal people may still be dropping manuscripts through these openings.

On another note, I wonder if publishers are still affected by the anthrax scare of a few years past. I've read that after packages and envelopes containing white powder was found in various organizations and publized heavily in the media, publishers quit opening ms containers, so the slush file never got read. The article I read stated that the editorial assistants used to order pizza, sit around a large table, and read out of the slush pile, but they don't do that anymore.

MidnightMuse · Sep 13, 2007

Sheesh, and I thought all it meant was the surface that forms the stern of a boat

dclary · Sep 13, 2007

MidnightMuse said:
I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya!

And throw you over the tranny, and into the bay.

Now, see, I've been to San Francisco, where you have to pay $50 to be thrown over a tranny, into the bay.

ETA: thanks for the defs, guys. Would it also be like the little door that the thug looks through in all the speak-easy door scenes in every movie with a speak-easy?

Zoombie · Sep 13, 2007

Haven't any of these agents ever even heard of Brain Jacques?

blacbird · Sep 13, 2007

meldy said:
Stephen King made close to 3 million dollars before he ever even talked to an agent (sorry, reading "On Writing" right now lol)
Just a thought..........

And that was thirty-plus years ago. The "process" has changed a great deal since then. What happened to Stephen King early in his career has as much relevance to us today as does the fact that Cervantes wrote Don Quixote with a quill pen.

caw

C.bronco · Sep 13, 2007

Rllgthunder said:
It seemed like the proper description initially. My first query was rejected, so I rewrote it, and on that query Dan Lazar at Writer's House asked for the full MS. He passed, not high concept enough for him, but I subbed to other agents afterwards. Same exact query. It's been a steady stream of rejections since then.

I still have a list of agents to query but the problem seems to be it isn't exactly YA or MG. It might mean I have to strike the tag "anthropomorphic" or change the market genre. Anthropomorphic just seems to be a hard sell at the moment, as far as agents go.

Just call it a novel about (insert animal species of your choice) and let them categorize it.
I've heard that a lot about anthropomorphism, and it's a shame. Watership Down is my favorite novel.

RG570 · Sep 13, 2007

I wonder what someone who doesn't know what anthropomorphic means is doing in the book business.

I remember discussing the concept in like grade 9 English.

Over the transom. When does it become a good idea?

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