Do male readers get much from sex scenes in novels, or are they aimed at women?

BrokenSword · Sep 11, 2007

In reading the two recent 'sex scene' threads on this forum, I was discussing the theories of such with my gf and had a question I thought could use a bit of survey action;

For those that read novels which have sex/tease scenes in them, would it be fair to say that this is more the province of female readers? Understanding from my gf that about 90% of what she reads in that genre has some sort of sex/tease scene in it, I'm going to assume that the majority of readers exposed to sex/teases are women, yes? This would mean that the scenes are mainly catering toward what a woman sees as sexual. I would like to ask the male readers;

do the novels you read routinely carry such scenes and do they form part of the reason you enjoy the book or is such more the venue for imagery such as film and picutures. That is, my gf figures since most men are graphically oriented, such scenes in a novel are not going to affect male readership as much as they might female readership, meaning that the scenes I have in MY effort should be pointed toward women readers, not males.

I know that it is all about forwarding the storyline and after reading the couple of threads, agree to a point. I'm thinking on the various scenes contained within my attempt as I'm in edit mode and wondering how/if I need to pare/flesh out (no pun, please) such scenes and if there IS an audience that will be more enamored than than another.

I'd have to classify what I've written as fantasy historical romance, which makes it seem as if I've crossed a couple of genres, but that doesn't bother me much; I would hope I've created something which either/both genders can enjoy and only my beta readers are going to tell me this for sure. But I'm impatient and wanted to know from the readers here, how my thinking is perceived.

So, do most sex/tease scenes aim toward a predominantly female readership and affects male readers minimally?

I know if you're reading the piece for such scenes, it probably is a moot point, but I'm talking about those scenes which are not necessarily gratuitous and do enhance the story/read. Quite a bit of what I've read hasn't contained such scenes ( granted, it's mainly older novels) hence I don't have much feedback in this area, though the books my gf reads helps me in pondering this aspect.

Care to weigh in? I'm talking more substance and what readers want in a novel, relative to gender; in this case, sex/teaser scenes.

Michael

Bufty · Sep 12, 2007

Sorry, but taking this in conjunction with the thread title question, and your desire from some 'survey action', I'm lost.

BrokenSword said:
...Care to weigh in? I'm talking more substance and what readers want in a novel, relative to gender; in this case, sex/teaser scenes.
Michael

dclary · Sep 12, 2007

Without getting too gross...

The first time I *recognized* that puberty had changed me was the first time I read the scene in the novelization of The Empire Strikes Back where Han and Leia have their quiet moment in the Millenium Falcon whilst making repairs in the space slug's belly and became aroused.

So, yeah, maybe guys do get something out of it. We like a little T-n-A as much as the chick reading about throbbing manhoods and flowering womanhoods in romance novels.

KTC · Sep 12, 2007

You know what...I'm just looking for story, man. If it fits where you put it, I will feel appropriately. Reading is all about locking in your emotions with the story. I don't read to get aroused...that's just silly. I read to board a roller coaster and to feel. The novels I read are life unravelling. In life, there is sex...but, truly...it's at most glanced over. It's this ridiculous thing we do that feels great while we're doing it...but, come on. Put it where it belongs in the story...and don't think about it.

scarletpeaches · Sep 12, 2007

I can't say I like/dislike sex scenes any more or less than other types of scene. If it's superfluous, then I skim. But I'll skim anything that's superfluous. In fact if I find myself skimming, I'll more than likely abandon the book.

I know men are said to be more visually stimulated than women, but I'm not so sure that's true. It might be for some or even most, but it's not universal. Maybe some of the men here need to read Kama Sutra: The Pop-up Edition. (Yes it does exist; I saw it in Borders).

But really, the largest erogenous zone in the human body for either sex is the brain.

ErylRavenwell · Sep 12, 2007

If it fits the storyline, fine with me.

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2007

All the sex scenes I've read are in the story to serve the story. So they don't get my motor runnin' any more than a scene of someone getting killed gets me upset. It's all part of a story, that's all.

I suppose if I start reading Zane (not Zane Gray) then I can give you a different answer.

DeleyanLee · Sep 12, 2007

BrokenSword said:
So, do most sex/tease scenes aim toward a predominantly female readership and affects male readers minimally?

In all honesty, I think it depends more on what genre they're in and how they're written who's going to get the most appeal out of them.

Sex scenes in Genre Romance are (usually) focused heavily on the emotions and (hopefully) the conflict being dealt with during the actions of sex. The actual plumbing working can be secondary. In Erotic Romance (can't speak for Erotica, I've never read it), the plumbing has more prominance in the scene, but the emotional focus still should be there because it's still first and foremost a Genre Romance novel. This is, obviously, very appealing to women, however the male readership of Genre Romance (at least, if I'm remembering the last report I saw from RWA correctly) is growing noticeably over the last several years of the survey.

Sex scenes in other genres where the focus of the book's conflict is more external than interpersonal, can be all of a sentence long and still be as graphic (meaning that the sex happens on the page without a doubt) but not as explicit (meaning that the details of the sex are spelled out on the page) as Genre Romance. I see this a lot in SF, Fantasy, Thrillers and Mystery.

While women still make up the majority of any genre's readers on average, some genres are seen as more male-oriented whereas Genre Romance is about the only one seen as female-oriented. Women who primarily read other genres aren't necessarily looking for the heavy concentration on emotion, etc, that those kinds of sex scenes demands. While there are writers who are moving more Romance-standard emotionally oriented sex scenes into the other genres, it's not an overwhelming trend that I've noticed being heard talked about. Even authors like Laurel K. Hamilton, who's noted for very explicit sex scenes doesn't have the level of emotional conflict for every scene demanded of the average Romance novel, so I really don't see her work as geared for the (perceived) "average woman reader" as, say, Nora Roberts or Laura Kinsale.

Can it work for either gender? Sure. Individuals vary. But in general, I think it really depends on how it's written and where it's shelved what is going to be the reader expectation of its contents and whether or not it's considered arousing.

Shadow_Ferret · Sep 12, 2007

Personally, I don't want sex in my movies, television, or novels. Not as part of an overall story anyway. If I do run into it, I tend to skim it. It just doesn't interest me. I guess in a way I'm still like my kids. "Don't look. A kissing scene is coming up!"

Don Allen · Sep 12, 2007

I attend the church of "Sex is good all the time" and we believe you can't get enough. However, reading about it bores me because quite frankly, very few writers get it right. Sex for the first time, even with experianced pro's is usually at best awkward, and rarely "The most magnificent experiance" of a persons life as portrayed by zillions of authors. I like a passive mention, a little more if it relates to the plot, and then to move on...

JJ Cooper · Sep 12, 2007

I tend to read Thrillers and I don't ofter come across too many sex scenes. There was one Ludlem novel that I stopped reading when he had a brother and sister getting intimate. I don't know what he was thinking there.

I find in this Genre you get a lot of - tension between the couple, action, tension, action, man saves woman, action, tension, throw in some suspense, action, little bit of conflict, action, man gets a bit toey, tension, woman falls in love, action, they kiss, end chapter. New chapter, tension, action etc etc. That's how I've written mine anyway.

As a reader I don't need the full version.

JJ

Max Ingram · Sep 12, 2007

I think the majority of the time, if a man is looking for something a bit naughty, he turns to the old favorites; dirty magazines from the corner store, and the occasional whiz-bang video clip from the Internet. In my experience, women tend to be the main readers of novels falling into the category of "romantic."

It goes without saying that everyone is unique, but in terms of generality, men tend to gravitate toward the visual, while women will often steer toward the mental.

There are exceptions to this, however. I clearly remember being a boy of about 12 or 13 years of age, when I first ran across a science-fiction novel that alluded to a sexual encounter between the protagonist and his love interest. Having read mostly books written for Young Adults up to that point, I found the thinly-veiled description to be quite attention-catching.

Needless to say, I found myself skimming through the remainder of the book, searching for any other such enticing scenes. And the ones I found, I enjoyed reading quite thoroughly. In fact, discovering that book inspired me to begin searching the racks for any sort of fictional account that might contain similarly "interesting" events.

But of course, that represents the fascination of a young boy whom had yet to encounter anything as captivating as an actual pornographic magazine or film. If I were to read that same novel as an adult today, I'd likely barely notice it's presence.

Perks · Sep 12, 2007

This is a really interesting thread and I hope more guys weigh in on this. What I read and write doesn't usually have a lot of explicit sex in it, but I think the OP has an interesting point.

So far, it's as I would have predicted - written sex scenes don't draw as strong a reaction from male readers and they do female readers. It's probably a handy thing to know when you're noodling out how graphic to get.

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2007

I'm more or less in Shadow Ferret's category, in that depending on the book, I'll skim them. I said that I'd read them if they advance the story, which is true....but so often, they just don't.

You'll be reading a thriller and you get the Obligatory Sex Scene Payoff, and then the story goes on. You could cut the scene out and not be harmed by it one bit.

And outside of Genre Romance, all the sex scenes I encounter (the ones that don't help the story) are gushingly written to avoid actually getting down and dirty, as it were. Suddenly, in the middle of the clipped, boiled-down hard thriller novel, you get these gushing, flowing sentences about love and coming together like two passionate stars and meeting and....blech.

I like Neil Gaiman sex scenes. In Stardust, there's a sex scene...but unless you come to it with knowledge of sex, and sex scenes, that it's not there. (As in, if I gave the book to a kid who read it happily, they would not necessarily notice what that scene is).

Alternatively, in American Gods, a woman consumes a man during sex with her....erm....well, her lady parts, let's say.

That was a good scene.

Azraelsbane · Sep 12, 2007

Shadow_Ferret said:
Personally, I don't want sex in my movies, television, or novels. Not as part of an overall story anyway. If I do run into it, I tend to skim it. It just doesn't interest me. I guess in a way I'm still like my kids. "Don't look. A kissing scene is coming up!"

You sound like my husband. LoL. That man is ridiculous when it comes to "sex stuff." When we first hooked up he used to lecture me on the amorality of the porn I was watching... Yeah, he got over that, but I still can't get him to watch anything. His friends are always making fun of him because if there's a scene with a topless girl in a movie we're watching he goes all red and looks like he's about to die of embarrassment. *smacks forehead*

Just the other day I was talking about a sex scene in the book and made a joke about the author calling the guy's manhood some crazy thing or other and his eyes got wide "They actually write sex scenes in books? I thought it was just, you know... 'and they laid down and had sex.'"

*sigh* So yeah, as far as my husband goes, I don't think he likes sex scenes.

I'm fine with them if they further the plot, or it's been building and building to a nice climax, but most sex scenes are superfluous and far too purple for me.

Shane Fitzsimmons · Sep 12, 2007

Without really reading anything but the topic, I think it's worthwhile to note that studies have been done that women tend to take abstractions and words much more to heart than men do. Men prefer to keep things tangible. For instance, in love, women prefer men to show them love by saying "I love you," and giving them security and making them feel taken care of. Men prefer women to show them love by, well, having sex with them.

Sex scenes don't do anything for me in books. I can't really speak for the rest of men.

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
*sigh* So yeah, as far as my husband goes, I don't think he likes sex scenes. I'm fine with them if they further the plot, or it's been building and building to a nice climax, but most sex scenes are superfluous and far too purple for me.

Send your husband 'round these parts, we'll have a talk with him.

When they start giving weird names to Male Members in books, then it just gets too, too weird. And if the word "turgid" appears anywhere...

You know, come to think of it, very few of the books on my shelf actually have sex scenes in them. THere's the two Gaiman ones I mentioned, there a few brief references in Stephen King novels -- never much -- and that really seems to be about it. How interesting.

NeuroFizz · Sep 12, 2007

I agree this is an interesting thread. However, if any author is considering adjusting a sex scene to best appeal of a specific audience, I think the sex scene is being written for the wrong reason. Certainly, sex scenes shouldn't be written with a primary goal of titillation (except for erotica). If they achieve a proper literary goal of advancing the story and happen to arouse a reader, so much the better, but the former should be the author's goal, not the latter. This means the detail put into the sex scene should match the story's need or likely it will come off as gratuitous. In other words, pay attention to the story's need for the sex scene, not the reader's.

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2007

Exactly. And even major authors (hi, Clive Cussler) fall too often into the gratuitous, obligatory sex scene trap.

She_wulf · Sep 12, 2007

OT Question: Where do you...

That headline is a bit misleading.

Being (slightly) new here, where would you post a portion (of a sex scene) for crit. The portion is R rated, but not R+ to X. AND it's told from a male POV (which, being a woman...well...I'd like input)

Romance...?

Erotica...?

In the genre it's written for...?

Azraelsbane · Sep 12, 2007

She_wulf said:
That headline is a bit misleading.

Being (slightly) new here, where would you post a portion (of a sex scene) for crit. The portion is R rated, but not R+ to X. AND it's told from a male POV (which, being a woman...well...I'd like input)

Romance...?

Erotica...?

In the genre it's written for...?

I think it depends on how in depth it is. I put a sex scene in fantasy/sci-fi (because that was the actual genre), and I didn't get any complaints. I just put a warning at the top of the piece. Then again, the chapter was 6k long and the sex scene was only about 200-300 words. If it's really graphic, it needs to go in erotica, which has an extra password.

Spiny Norman · Sep 12, 2007

Haha, a lot of this stuff is familiar and makes me laugh.

I'm still in the kinda utilitarian camp on this. I don't like to have it in there unless it does something, either plot-wise or character-wise. When there's some sex scene just stapled into a book for the obviously express purpose of getting your yah-yahs off, I hate it. And books do it all the time. I usually read it, half-interested, but don't think much of it and think less of the rest of the book after.

I don't consider the readership in that, I just consider the book.

maestrowork · Sep 12, 2007

From my own perspective... I only care for the sex scene if I'm reading erotica specifically. Otherwise, I do tend to skip it if it's just sex -- however, if there's actually a plot going on outside of people getting it on, then I'll pay attention and take notice.

In general (yeah, I'm generalizing here), men are visual and "reading" about sex just doesn't quite cut it in a normal setting, and... at least for me, my eyes just gloss over. Also, it depends on how it's written, too. If it's all flowery and obtuse, then forget it. I'd prefer simple, straightforward language -- just get down to it, so to speak. But still, men read sex for a specific purpose, so if the sex is part of the story, it tends to lose its allure.

Now romantic scenes are different... that lingering, parting-is-thy-sorrow kissing scene always gets me.

Cranky · Sep 12, 2007

Alas, I must confess that I am a prude that way. I used to absolutely gobble up sex scenes in romance novels, back when I was a teenager and had never had any. (Sex, that is) I got a thrill out of it, I guess, because it demystified the whole process for me.

Now, it either A) makes me yawn if done poorly or for no real reason or B)makes me squirm uncomfortably. I fast forward through those scenes in movies, too.

It's a weird thing, but there you are...and I'm a chick, so who knows? My mother still reads romance novels, and really enjoys them. I've never spoken to her about the sex scenes in them, but I suppose they might be part of the appeal. I don't know, and I'm not about to ask.

For myself, I tend to write stuff that doesn't require them. Not on purpose, but because they don't do anything for the story. Profanity is a bigger problem for me...all my characters want to curse and smoke and drink too much, lol.

Azraelsbane · Sep 12, 2007

Cranky said:
Alas, I must confess that I am a prude that way. I used to absolutely gobble up sex scenes in romance novels, back when I was a teenager and had never had any. (Sex, that is) I got a thrill out of it, I guess, because it demystified the whole process for me.

Now, it either A) makes me yawn if done poorly or for no real reason or B)makes me squirm uncomfortably. I fast forward through those scenes in movies, too.

It's a weird thing, but there you are...and I'm a chick, so who knows?

For myself, I tend to write stuff that doesn't require them. Not on purpose, but because they don't do anything for the story. Profanity is a bigger problem for me...all my characters want to curse and smoke and drink too much, lol.

Cranky is a chick!

Anyway, I know how you feel about the cursing characters... Most of my characters are pretty formal, and then there's the middle of the road guy, and then there's Morghan... She makes every scene a train wreck. LoL.

Do male readers get much from sex scenes in novels, or are they aimed at women?

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