Writing dialogue phonetically, or not?

OctoberRain · Sep 11, 2007

There was a thread earlier that sort of meandered onto this topic. What would be the best way to write dialogue in a way that shows the character speaks with an accent?

Could something like this work:

“How about another one?” Ray said.

It took Billy a moment to figure out what he was being asked. What he heard was, “How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

“Sure,” Billy said.

“Help yourself, then.”

And then just continue to write the dialogue for Ray (or whoever the character is that speaks differently) normally, with readers now knowing that Ray speaks a certain way. Or would readers miss this and eventually forget he has an accent? Or it not as effective as writing out Ray's accented speech phonetically every time, but in a subtle way?

I’m thinking back to Stephen King’s It, where one of the characters stutters and King writes his dialogue exactly as this character would sound the whole way through the book. I didn’t think it was bad at all, and it didn’t disrupt the flow or give me a headache trying to decipher it.

But I’ve also seen King do something like the example above, where he describes the accent initially (and sometimes again further into the story), while always writing the dialogue normally.

Thoughts?

kristie911 · Sep 11, 2007

I've seen both done well. However, it gets very tedious reading a lot of phonetic dialogue. A word here and there as the occasional reminder of how a character speaks is probably best.

Red Robin · Sep 11, 2007

I was about to scream NO! until I read your sample dialogue. That kind of thing is fine. I can only speak for myself, but I hate reading phonetics, particularly attempts at southern drawl.

What you've done is a good idea. After that, just write dialogue normally. If you feel a pressing need to remind the reader of an accent, try some very light phonetics such as - “How a-bout another one?” Ray said.

Rhea L · Sep 11, 2007

Jacqueline Carey did that in her Kushiel series not with dialogue, but with names - to indicate that they were, in fact, a foreign language to the character speaking them. It worked for me.

blacbird · Sep 11, 2007

OctoberRain said:
Could something like this work:

“How about another one?” Ray said.

It took Billy a moment to figure out what he was being asked. What he heard was, “How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

“Sure,” Billy said.

“Help yourself, then.”

And then just continue to write the dialogue for Ray (or whoever the character is that speaks differently) normally, with readers now knowing that Ray speaks a certain way.

Your example works perfectly for me. And following that exactly as you suggest would be perfect, as well.

As has been mentioned in other threads on this topic, phonetic pseudo-spelling of irregular or regional pronunciations used to be fashionable, but really hasn't been for half a century or so, with rare exceptions (Irvine Welsh comes to mind, with Trainspotting and even then, I hated it.)

If you want a couple of good instructive examples from earlier times, Huck Finn, of course is the classic on how to do it well. Twain pretty much invented the concept. Compare his really skillful work with the nearly contemporaneous try by Melville in The Confidence-Man. The latter is an important literary work, but compared to Twain's masterpiece, the use of phonetically-rendered dialect is truly atrocious and a big blemish on the thing as a whole.

caw

Wolvel · Sep 11, 2007

I really don't see a probelm with using the diffent speech the whole time.

Several of my characters come from the South so I write their speech with a touch of southern drawl, but I'm also from the South.

Example of what I use goes like this. "Somthin' ain't right, I'm goin' to check it out."

I don't go overboard trying to phonic the whole way of talking, I just use a small amount to remind the reader of the accent. Usually involves removing the G from words ending in ING.

I have seen some attempts on southern drawl be way over done, such as Ah'm for I'm and don't get me started on uontto (you want to) and awight (all right).

For me subtle is the way to go, it does not take much to pull off an accent, just the right balance.

Julie Worth · Sep 12, 2007

OctoberRain said:
Could something like this work:

“How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

Just my impression--when I read it, it came out really slow, like a very drunk Homer Simpson. If that's what you want, fine. But for fast readers, having to slow down to decode makes the dialogue sound slow and stupid.

cletus · Sep 12, 2007

Julie Worth said:
Just my impression--when I read it, it came out really slow, like a very drunk Homer Simpson. If that's what you want, fine. But for fast readers, having to slow down to decode makes the dialogue sound slow and stupid.

Which is why the OP is only doing it once to show that is how the character talks. The rest of that person's dialogue is then written normally. The reader knows the character talks like that, but is not held up trying to decipher everything that character says.

Indirectly · Sep 12, 2007

I think that's fine.

Here's a grand example of What Not To Do (imo) a la George MacDonald's "Alec Forbes of Howglen":

"Is na Broonie a fine coo, Betty?" ... "Puir Broonie! Naebody midnit me, an' sae I cam to you, Broonie."

"Dinna tell auntie whaur I am, Betty. Lat me be. I'm best here wi' Broonie."

"Whaur's the bairn, Betty? At some mischeef or ither, I'll wad."

"Hoot! mem, the bairn's weel eneuch. Bairns maunna be followed like carr (calves)."

Okay if I type/read/look at any more of that, my mind will surely explode. If I were some sort of historical linguist, it might be fascinating, but as things stand, it's quite revolting. (And I adore George MacDonald - forgive me, dear.)

DeleyanLee · Sep 12, 2007

Indirectly said:
"Is na Broonie a fine coo, Betty?" ... "Puir Broonie! Naebody midnit me, an' sae I cam to you, Broonie."

"Dinna tell auntie whaur I am, Betty. Lat me be. I'm best here wi' Broonie."

"Whaur's the bairn, Betty? At some mischeef or ither, I'll wad."

"Hoot! mem, the bairn's weel eneuch. Bairns maunna be followed like carr (calves)."

I quite agree, Indi. This is the kind of stuff that just drives me batty and will guarantee I put a book down in about 3 pages if this is a major character. When I have to read dialogue out loud to have a clue what is being said, it's too much work.

I've also seen dialect that has a nice cadence to it written with normal words, but with the cadence intact. The Irish accent can be done well that way, and I've read entire books where even the narrative was done with an Irish cadence. But when you start messing with the spelling and sticking in apostrophes--sorry, I don't want to work that hard, as a reader or a writer.

Joe Moore · Sep 12, 2007

I think your example works fine. But I would avoid doing anything to excess that slows the reader's eye as it moves across the page. Also, ask yourself how many books you've read that used the same technique. Did you enjoy them? Did the technique enhance your experience? Or did it get in the way of the story? Be cautious of stepping outside the norm of what the reader is used to. If the reader has to work at it, they will put the book down and move on to something that requires less effort. Good luck.

maestrowork · Sep 12, 2007

Please don't write phonetically -- that makes my head hurt and takes me way out of the story because it's hard on the readers' brains. A little bit goes a long way, coupled with sentence structures, voice, style, word choices...

CaroGirl · Sep 12, 2007

I prefer the way it's done in a novel like Toni Morrison's Beloved, where it isn't so much the dialect itself that's on display, but a specific speech pattern.

"What churches around here? I ain't set foot in one in ten years."
"How come?"
"Wasn't none. I dislike the place I was before this last one, but I did get to church every Sunday some kind of way. I bet the Lord done forgot who I am by now."

Cranky · Sep 12, 2007

I loved CaroGirl's example...that's exactly right, imo.

Phonetically rendered dialog makes my head hurt, for the most part. I've dabbled with it from time to time, but it looked pretty amateurish and silly, in addition to being difficult to read and understand. But maybe that's because I'm a terrible writer, lol.

It never comes across to me the way it sounds in my head, either.

AllieB · Sep 12, 2007

Me, too...I tend to slow down/skip over/get a headache when I have to read too much phonetically spelled dialogue.

Azraelsbane · Sep 12, 2007

I'm not a fan of phonetic dialogue, although Caro's example works for me. Even the one in the OP jarred me, to tell you the truth. If you simply have to do it, I guess that's okay. I prefer to give hints in the pov chars thoughts (if the other person has a drunken slur). There are ways to get it across without having to make the reader stop and sound out the weird phonetic spelling (which to me, one word of it is just as jarring, if not more so, than a dialogue containing it).

As far as people "sounding uneducated," I hate stereotypical dialogue. Actions speak louder than words (look, ma, a cliche!). I like my dim chars to react poorly, rather than have dumbed down speech.

maestrowork · Sep 12, 2007

The only time I wrote something out phonetically was that the character had a speech impediment, and the 1st person narrator had trouble understanding her. So I wanted the readers to have trouble understand her, too.

Cranky · Sep 12, 2007

maestrowork said:
The only time I wrote something out phonetically was that the character had a speech impediment, and the 1st person narrator had trouble understanding her. So I wanted the readers have to trouble understand her, too.

Well, see, to me, that's legit. (Not that my opinion matters, lol)

If someone is uneducated, or has an accent, I think there are other ways of doing it other than phonetic dialog. With a speech impediment, I think it gets the point across much better. Like the example with the character in Stephen King's book. Especially because that speech impediment was used in an interesting way, too. In my opinion it was, anyway.

Sassee · Sep 12, 2007

Small hijack, somewhat related...

How would you write out someone's speech that stutters AND talks too fast? My work friend's husband has the absolute worst speech I've ever heard. It took me a few weeks of listening to him to finally understand what he was saying (she usually has to translate for other people). Now that I'm used to him I get the general gist of what he's trying to say, but dear God, I've never heard such a serious speech impediment in my life, and half the time I have to make him repeat himself. Even then I just guess. Mostly it sounds like rapid garble with a bit of inflection. To top it off his voice is loud and unpleasant to the ears (I don't know if it's tone or what, but it just grates on you).

The best part? He answers phones for a living.

As a writer that sort of speech fascinates me. It would be a real challenge to get him down on paper. Without me posting a link to his recorded voice, what would you guys suggest for that sort of character? How would you get that across in written dialogue? Or would you even try?

Indirectly · Sep 12, 2007

DeleyanLee said:
I quite agree, Indi. This is the kind of stuff that just drives me batty and will guarantee I put a book down in about 3 pages if this is a major character. When I have to read dialogue out loud to have a clue what is being said, it's too much work.

I've also seen dialect that has a nice cadence to it written with normal words, but with the cadence intact. The Irish accent can be done well that way, and I've read entire books where even the narrative was done with an Irish cadence. But when you start messing with the spelling and sticking in apostrophes--sorry, I don't want to work that hard, as a reader or a writer.

I agree. I made it to page five of that book and it's a 440 page book. The sad thing is, even though the dialogue doesn't stay that way it was still too much for me.

I have also seen dialogue that manages to carry the flavor or tempo of an accent or a foreign language without bogging down the reader.

I couldn't remember a fictional example off the top of my head, but here's a quote from a website showcasing a Russian museum (http://eng.polymus.ru/?s=22&d_id=67 ) which I can only assume was written by a native Russian speaker: "Siadristy could shoe ordinary flea with tiny golden horse shoes. He nailed each horse shoes by three steel nails." (At least, I hope it wasn't written by a native English speaker. >.>)

While perhaps not the best example, it still shows something readable, but different. (Of course each language will vary in terms of the common mistakes/structure.)

When authors nail it, it can be quite good, but if they can't, I would prefer no hint of accent/language. Otherwise, I wallbang the book.

Marian Perera · Sep 12, 2007

Cranky said:
If someone is uneducated, or has an accent, I think there are other ways of doing it other than phonetic dialog.

I have an uneducated character who needs to describe a criminal's behavior before a formal gathering of magistrates. Already feeling a bit nervous, she tells them how the criminal gave her a valuable gift, then apologized for its poor quality. "I didn't trust him because of that," she says. "He seemed so... so..."
"Obsequious?" suggests a magistrate.
"If that's a bad thing, yes."

Of course, if the character has a speech impediment, phonetic dialogue would be necessary, but I would personally be careful not to overuse this.

OctoberRain · Sep 12, 2007

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. The example passage is something I made up on the spot (it's not in my book, I would never write someone with a southern accent as I'm Canadian and have no real idea what it even sounds like). But one of my characters does speak with an accent and it's important that the readers know that to really get a feel for him. So I'm trying out different ways of getting across his way of speaking to the reader in a very quick way without bogging the book down with lots of phonetic speech, thinking that I could "cheat" by explaining it just once after introducing him into the story.

Wolvel · Sep 12, 2007

Well being from the South the general accent is where I do my work. usually with the removing of the g from the ing words gives it the southern drawl I'm accustom too.

But the example of Indirectly will give a body a headache.

Claudia Gray · Sep 13, 2007

For what it's worth, a friend of mine who's an editor at S&S was annoyed the other day b/c she'd gotten in a manuscript that had phonetic dialogue, and on the rewrite, she was going to have to make the writer take it all out. "We have to add back all the Gs," she said, referrin' to talkin' like this.

One editor's opinion, FWIW.

Indirectly · Sep 13, 2007

Wolvel said:
Well being from the South the general accent is where I do my work. usually with the removing of the g from the ing words gives it the southern drawl I'm accustom too.

But the example of Indirectly will give a body a headache.

I know it gave me one.

But, still, shows where the phonetic dialogue is a super bad idea in practice, no? *shudder*

Writing dialogue phonetically, or not?

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