How long is too long?

I wrote the books, now what?

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp I apologize if this post is a little long, but I need some help and wanted to give out the right information. If anyone one can share their thoughts, I would really appreciate it.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Last year, I finished writing my first novel. After editing, rewriting, and polishing, I felt it was ready for submittal. I composed a query letter, researched some agencies, and began the submission process. Thanks to websites like this one, I was able to weed out the scam artists. The response I received back from my queries seemed to have a common theme. "Your book sounds like fun, but it is too long and difficult to sell for a first time author."

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp You see, my book is on the long side at 335,000 words. Even though I think it is a good story, I can understand why agents wouldn't take a chance on an unknown commodity for such a long body of work. So, I put the book on the back burner for the time being.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp While waiting for the replies to my first novel, I wrote another one. Much shorter this time. I wrote a young adult novel of 85,000 words and went through the whole process again. This time I had more luck. I received quite a few nibbles and submitted my manuscript to two agents (not simultaneously).

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The first agent liked it, but decided he couldn't take it on at the time. He was nice enough to give me some advice which I took. The second agency loved it. The reader who screened it had me make some minor changes then submitted it to the head agent with a recommendation. There was even talk that this could be a series for young readers. For the record, this is a very reputable agency which I've even read good things about on this site.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The final manuscript was submitted around the beginning of April. The agency told me that I would hear from them in 4-6 weeks. I checked in once at the beginning of June just to see what was going on. They explained that things were a little busy, but they would let me know soon. At most another week or so. It is now mid-September and I haven't heard anything. I don't want to seem pushy because I know people can get busy and I don't want to tarnish my chances. I did send an email two weeks ago, another polite check-in, but didn't even get a reply to that one. As a rookie, I don't know the etiquette for this situation.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Also, getting back to my longer novel. I had planned on breaking into the industry with this short young adult novel and then thought it would be easier to solicit my longer work as a known commodity. I think this is a good plan, but now I am wondering if I am making a mistake. Am I not being aggressive enough with the first book by letting it sit in my drawer? Or should I show more patience with everything?

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp While waiting all this time, I've written another young adult sports novel (60,000 words) that I really don't want to submit yet until I see what happens with all of this. Should I get started on queries for that book?

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Again, I am sorry this post is a little long, but I wanted to explain it all. Hopefully, if you were patient enough to read all of this, I could get your thoughts.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp I'm already writing another while waiting, so you can see I don't mind doing the work. I love it. I just want to see if I am handling all of this correctly as a novice.

Chris

Re: I need a little help.

Should I get started on queries for that book?

Yes, start querying.

Meanwhile, another polite note to the agency that has your book wouldn't be out of line.

I'd go hard-copy rather than e-mail, if that's a question.

Re: I need a little help.

Hi Chris,

First off, as a publisher, I can tell you honestly that I'd pass out at a 335,000 word count submission, unless you write like Tolstoy.

It's hardly fair for me to say what other publishers may do, but as a small press, I would avoid it.

Why? You're unknown. While that won't force you to stand in the corner, getting a publisher to agree to produce this is hard because the page count is going to be quite high. High page count translates to a fairly hefty retail price. To pin a hefty retail price on an unknown author is a huge gamble for a traditional publisher. I can tell you our marketing department would eviscerate me, not to mention the evil things my editing department would do.

Again, why? Unless you have a pedigree a mile long, getting national exposure with the bookstores is really hard for a new author. Sales, therefore, become dependant upon local signings. Your book has an obsolescence factor by its daunting word count. That means it will take a huge marketing effort to convince buyers to shell out the bucks.

The combination of these variables forces the publisher’s scale begins to sway against you. Basically, it’s all a crapshoot. If the publisher has chosen wisely, everyone makes money. I think you’d be better served in splitting the book up. Releasing them at the same time, perhaps as a series set, or one at a time may get your more interest.

As for the agency, it isn’t unusual not to hear anything for a long, long time. You may have become part of a slush pile, or they’re weeding through the submissions. I’ve known many authors who didn’t hear anything for at least eight months to a year.

As for what you should do with your newest completed book, I know many authors who spread their work around to a number of publishing houses. There are a lot of great and honest publishers out there. Do your research and go with the one who you feel can best get your work out to readers.

But if you’re really bent on that first novel, I’d break it up. Again, these are strictly my opinions as a small press and it’s entirely possible I’m full of beans. I’ve been accused of that on more than one occasion. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_bigsmile.gif" /> I can only impart what our little company would do.

Best of luck to you.

Re: I need a little help.

You see real customer reluctance against buying books starting around $28, even for authors they know and enjoy.

Hence, you see real bookstore reluctance to shelve books above $28, except for superstars and specialty books.

Thus you won't see publishers put out a lot of books, especially by first-timers, where the cover price will be above $28.

I've started to see a lot of books that have been split up into segments, but mostly those books aren't as satisfying as the ones that were an organic whole from the first writing.

So try marketing the shorter works first. If those get major readership, your longer work will be easier to sell.

Re: I need a little help.

335,000 words

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Wow. That is one long-ass book. There are trilogies out there that don't have that many words. Plus, is this 335,000 words of Word's word count, or did you did the publisher's word count, which (for me at least) is about 30% more?

My book is 155,000 words and people call it a "door-stopper" and a "brick."

I'm sure plenty of people will come on and say you can edit it down, bla bla bla, but have you thought about splitting it up into two or three books?

Re: I need a little help.

did you did the publisher's ...

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That's what I get for hanging out with 5-year-olds all day.

Re: I need a little help.

James, Lynn, and Matt,

First, thanks for your advice. I agree, the book is too long to be a sale for a first timer. I sort of got that sense when I started getting replies back from my queries. And it is 335,000 on MS Word, so maybe it is even longer than I thought.

Here is the funny thing, though. I tested the book on three diferent strangers of four different ages and genders. All of them thought it was long, but a fast read. They all enjoyed it without much desire to change anything. Tough to say about 330,000 words, I know, but most of the work is dialouge.

Anyway, I do think I should consider breaking it down. The book is about a group of 20-somethings who rent a house at Jersey Shore and takes place over 7 days, so I have conisdered breaking it down by one or two day intervals, having a few books for a series. Although my personal opinion, if not the most fiscal opinion, is to keep it whole.

But, what I am still leaning toward is waiting to see how the other (shorter) manuscript fairs with this agency. If they like it, then I will work from there. Using that as a stepping stone into the industry. I just wasn't sure if this was the right strategy or if I was being patient enough with the current agency.

Re: I need a little help.

Sounds to me like breaking up the book would be a good idea. It may be a "fast read" but going through characters' lives for 24/7 would get tiresome. And yeah, maybe try writing out a couple of those days, unless that would mean something important would be lost. But try to write your way around that.

As for bookstores and high-cost books: I once bought a book from a first-time author that cost $50. It was nonfiction, though, a very large book and filled with color photos from medical equipment. (From Conception to Birth, if you really need to know!) I've also seen another nonfiction book at a bookstore that cost $80.

But maybe it's different for NF books. I've rarely seen a novel that cost more than $28. A SK novel I bought my hubby was $25.

Re: I need a little help.

I've seen a few scifi books at 34 dollars, don't remember their titles.

little help

Just from a readers perspective I would say break down the longer story. The hefty price, for some, may persuade them against it, the long work may persuade others.

If you break it down I say do it by the day, since it is written that way. I don't know the name of your book but something like this would be kind of catchy...

Jersey Shores Day One....Two...etc.

You could use it as a publishing gimmick if done right. A word of advice though. If you can get them to release a book every six months do it. I have seen lots of series out there that wait a year or more to release a new book and I think it does damage to the story and alienates the readers. They have to go back and reread through the first story to remember what happened last and that can be a pain in the butt. Case in point, though just remember this is my perspective, is the Left Behind Series. When they were releasing a book every six months I was really into it, but when they dropped to a book a year I kind of fell out with the series as a whole. I forgot what happened in the other books, had to re-read them to remember crucial parts, the long wait was the major downer though. Nothing worse than waiting years for a new book in a series you love. Stephen King's Dark Tower Series is one that I have followed since the late 80's but was really bummed waiting five years for new books. Praise God it is done now though.

Kevin

Serial Publications

Does anyone remember how long it was between releases of the Green Mile--the original six part form?

Andrea eace

Re: Serial Publications

Monthly, I believe.

Re: Serial Publications

There are real problems with creating a seven-volume serial like Jersey Shores: Monday, Jersey Shores: Tuesday ... Jersey Shores: Sunday.

First, if for some reason book two doesn't sell very well, the printing orders on books three, four, five etc. will be decreased, and it's possible the series may be canceled.

If someone misses Tuesday, they may not buy Wednesday. Someone who didn't read Monday ... Thursday is unlikely to buy Friday.

More: When Monday comes out, lots of people won't buy it, figuring that they'll wait until Sunday is released to pick up the whole set. Reasons for this include sad experience with series where the later books don't come out at all (see remarks above) and the frustration of waiting between volumes if the story is good. Multi-volume novels aren't very commercial either. (The argument that Stephen King did it doesn't hold for anyone except Stephen King.)

With the vagaries of distribution, it's possible that any given bookstore will never even stock Wednesday, even though they had every other volume in stock. This will lead to high returns for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Again, not good for sales, not good for the career.

No, not a good bet. Hold off on this novel until later.

A good series is one that's loosely linked (same venue, same characters) but can be read in any order, and where each volume tells a complete story.

Re: Serial Publications

To toss some more King into the discussion, think of the Castle Rock books. They were mostly separate and distinct novels (maybe two novellas as well). They had overlapping characters and cross-linked references and incidents. For example, you could read Cujo, Needful Things and/or Pet Semetary by themselves without missing anything by not having read any of the others.

But you must read all of Uncle Jim's novels in order because its just more fun that way. :thumbs

Andrea eace

Gee, maybe I should ask Jenna to include some sort of lip emoticon. Funny, I have a few in my collection.

Re: Serial Publications

From the reader's perspective:

I just bought an author's first novel. It weighs in (literally) at 782 pages, which by my rough estimate is right around 400K words. The point being that first time novelists do sell huge books, but it's probably quite rare. However, this one is not mainstream. It's more like Harry Potter for grown-ups. Perhaps this genre is kinder longer works? I don't know. I did note, though, that the cover price is $27.95, which agrees with Uncle Jim's post about maximum pricing for fiction. I paid $19.57 at Barnes and Nobles. I would have paid full price. Why? Because the publisher is marketing this book. Displays in the store, author interviews, etc. Would I have bought it otherwise? No, probably not. I would have waited for the paperback.

I suppose I should also say that this author has contacts in the publishing world. She worked for many years as an editor of cook books. Obviously not the same game, but I'm sure it didn't hurt.

Just my $0.02.

Re: Serial Publications

I'm guessing that Cindy is talking about Susanna Clark's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, a fantasy novel that most unusually has not been stuffed into the genre ghetto, but released by a mainstream imprint with a mainstream-style print run and mainstream-style publicity. Books that are hugely hyped by their publishers in an effort to build them into enormous sales successes are, like Stephen King, an exception to the rules that apply to normal authors (though even so, they can flop) (and also, I understand that this is a very good book).

Upstream, Jim mentioned that some longer books by midlist authors are now being split into segments, and that this doesn't always serve the book. I emphatically agree. I just got the first half of one of these segmented novels for review, and it read exactly like what it is: half a book (as opposed to the first installment of a duology: a subtle difference, but a crucial one). In fairness to the author, I'm going to wait for the other half before I write the review.

- Victoria

Re: Serial Publications

Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell also got a very nice full-page review in the New York Times Book Review (so much for them not reviewing fantasy). The author has previous short story credits in genre markets, BTW, and some very nice thanks to folks who helped her at the end of the book.

Re: Serial Publications

Wow, now I'm going to have to check that book out. Might be worth the price. I'm always looking for something new to read outside of my YA research.

Re: Serial Publications

I'm guessing that Cindy is talking about Susanna Clark's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

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Guess I shoulda said that. :smack

It is an excellent book, BTW. Very well written with a lyrical quality that makes it a joy to read.

a fantasy novel that most unusually has not been stuffed into the genre ghetto, released by a mainstream imprint with a mainstream-style print run

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I didn't realize the publisher is mainstream. I'd actually never heard of them before.

Re: Serial Publications

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> I didn't realize the publisher is mainstream. I'd actually never heard of them before.<hr></blockquote>
Yes, Cindy, Bloomsbury is a very big, well-known outfit. One of our editors has several books published by them.

Re: Serial Publications

Bloomsbury published Harry Potter in England, then sold the US rights to Scholastic. Scholastic raked in big money from the American market, and Bloomsbury feels like it missed out.

So they're trying a Harry Potter for adults.

Did anyone read the NYTimes profile on Susanna Clarke? Glowing is putting it mildly. I had to read it with sunglasses.

Re: I need a little help.

At Book Expo America this year, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell was THE book of the show. They were giving away hundreds of ARCs, had huge banners all over the halls and apparently Bloomsbury USA spent $250,000 in prepub marketing/publicity.

It's huge and pretty intimidating looking, but is actually a terrific book. I brought home a copy from BEA and read it while I was on vacation. I think it could have had some cuts in a couple of places and not lost any of the great narrative, but it really is a remarkable book.

Lauri at Nomad

Re: I need a little help.

I just wanted to thank you guys for all your help. The consensus seems to be that I should wait to see what happens with my shorter book then take it from there.

Also, I think everyone feels I should find some way to break the long book down. Maybe not 7 books, but at least two or three. I'll have to sit down and think about how to do it.

One more quick question. Since my book is long, but a lot of character interaction/dialogue as oppsoed to description, I was toying with the idea of screen writing. Maybe a series of some sort. How would a novel of roughly 335,000 words translate into a half hour or hour TV show. Just a rough estimate of shows. I really have no idea what a word count on a TV show or mini-series would be. Thanks.

Oo, guess what...

Just as an epilogue to this thread, my aunt just bought Jonathan Strange... She's going to leave it for me when she goes home to England, since she already ordered another copy to have sent to her there.

Ah... gotta love librarians.

Re: I need a little help.

Well, if the actors talk real fast, you've got a 15-minute show.

Okay, just kidding.