A little help here please

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amber_grosjean

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ok, I just heard from a publisher who did like my overall story but turned the story down. They said they will accept it at a later time if I were to make a few changes in the story. They sent me a very personalized letter going into details of the changes they would like to see. The story was written in chapters and they said that there was enought that each chapter could be made into its own book which means I would have to make them all longer.

Should I make these changes and rewrite this series into more books and not use chapters? Should I make the changes they suggested? Everyone has turned this story down and this was the first time someone said do this and we'll accept it.

Thank you

Amber
 

Felicia Beasley

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I'm not sure I understand, but are you saying that they want each chapter to be a book? So then your first chapter would be your first book?

You could try to make the changes they suggested but you have to ask yourself a couple of things first. One, do you agree with the changes, as in does it improve the story YOU are trying to tell. If it doesn't, you are going to have to ask yourself if the chance to get it published is worth changing the story in a direction you don't want to.

If they said they want to see it again after changes, and you are excited about this, I say go for it. What do you have to lose?

(If there is something to lose that I am not seeing, please point it out cuz I don't want to give advice that will jeopardize anything.)
 

job

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What kind of publisher are we talking about here? Large New York print publisher? Small press? E-publisher?
 

Gillhoughly

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Who's the publisher? If it's a print house that can write you an advance check you may want to think things over. Print house editors don't have time for long critiques unless they see potential in a work.

Have you got a beta reader who can read your work and look at their comments and offer you an opinion one way or another?

You getting that much comment is surprising. All I ever got in feedback back in the day was at most a single line, no details.

Good luck!
 

kristie911

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It depends. (Don't you hate to hear that? :) ) Basically, you need to decide if this publisher means that much to you. And do you think they have a legitimate idea that you want to try? Do you look at their comments and think, "what the hell?" If you think they have a good idea and you want to try it, then go for it. :)
 

preyer

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i say if they're willing to pay you, make the changes. screw artistic integrity. bite the bullet, be a whore for a few daze, weeks, months, whatever, and tell your next publisher you're a professional writer so you can fight (within reason) against changes you're against. the opposite is be stubborn and refuse to make the changes, don't get that particular book published, and continue with your day job until your next book.
 

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The part about each chapter being a book in itself sounds awfully strange to me. I couldn't offer any advice without knowing exactly what kind of publisher we're talking about.
 

Nickie

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Having been in the publishing business myself, I think this is a really strange reaction. However, to be able to offer more advice, I would need to know what publisher we are talking about.


Nickie
 

amber_grosjean

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The way I wrote the book is by chapter, each one being a different story with a big story combining each smaller chapter story. I never thought of it being written that way but I can see it being done. I was 12 years old when I began writing this so I never imagined it being written differently.

The changes were really minor and did make sense. The main character was a waitress living in New York at the beginning of the story who loses her aunt and returns to the small town where she grew up. I had her being raised in a large castle which was haunted, cursed, and built on top of the gates of hell. The publisher suggested I turned the castle into a mansion and take out the curse which is pleasable.

There were a few places that my voice was unsure of. It was like I was unsure who my audience was which really is true and I never noticed that it showed through my writing. This was my first piece after all. It is defenitly YA but adults would enjoy it too.

Basically, my setting wasn't right for the story and a few details needed to be changed to make the story more believable. After reading the chapters I had sent to them, I realized where she was coming from. She did like the story idea and thought it was well written just missing a few things. Plus it was too close to Charmed lol. It was written before Charmed came out which I thought was pretty cool.

The publisher is Darker Intentions. They are new, small press. I like working with small presses for now because it helps me learn and grow. I can gain experience and then hit the big time publishers.

Thanks for all your replies. I will think it over and listed to what you all have to say in the mean time.

Amber
 

amber_grosjean

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Here is a copy of the email she sent me today......

Dear Amber:

My editor and I met to discuss your work. First off, let me tell you that you write well and if somethings could be changed we may be in a position to publish your work in the future.

We read through all of the chapters that you sent me for this book and really like the premise and the stories. However, some of it reminded us of the show Charmed. Nevertheless, you have seized on a popular idea and it works in large part.

The tone of the book is indecisive. Are you talking to teens, children or adults? At times, there were some issues of voice and there was sense that you were talking at your audience and not with your audience.

The main character should be older. I think maturity would be the better answer. The main character should have some experience with life and the world. Being in NY as a waitress is not very convincing. You can't live in NY on waitress' salary (having lived that life for a time) unless you've got a side business going. Why not make her an aspiring actress who supplements her income as a waitress? She also needs group of friends who are skeptical of her move from NY to PA. The type that are in their twenties and think they know everything about the world and about life. The cynical kind are tested by her determination to move back to PA.

Also, her family history needs to be more credible. Why would a mother keep a second child secret if that child was from the same marriage? Why does the main character react so benignly to this news? I'd be angry or express some type of emotion if my mother dropped that bombshell on me. Why not have her know her sister growing up but not knowing the family secret? I'd find that more believable. When dealing with the supernatural, you have to work hard as suspending the reader's disbelief.

My other question is: is each chapter a separate story? They would make a great series of short stories or novellas. I see how you are trying to connect them. I think the curse of the house is too much. As she tries to solve the big mystery, she helps people along the way. Their needs to be a unifying story in all of the stories with the adventures as the "sub-stories."

Also, upon reflection, I don't think there should be a castle involved. An old mansion with a lot of hidden passageways is more believable. If they want castle like, I'd move the whole story to Upstate NY—maybe around Saratoga, NY. I think that's where many of the robber barons of the late 1800's built summer houses as well as Newport, RI. I'd believe this if it was outside of Pittsburgh. Outside of Philadelphia, you do get mansions but not castle-like as in The Breakers Cottage in Newport, RI.

Which begs my next question: if the family owns a "castle" why is she working as a waitress in NY? Why not make her an irresponsible socialite spending the family money? Or maybe her family disinherited her because she ran off with the her high school sweetheart who wasn't "good enough" for her?

My overall opinion is I like this alot but there needs to be many changes. . I think if you incorporated some of the suggestions and then make a decision as to where you want to take you audience it would be better and I would be willing to give it a second read and analysis. I think that you have to make a decision as to where you want to take this book, because each chapter could have been a separate book.

Thank you for sharing your work with me and while things didn't work out this time, please keep us in mind in the future.

Best,


Anna M. Lascurain
Publisher
Darker Intentions Press, LLC
 

Jamesaritchie

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Novel

It doesn't read to me as if they're saying each chapter should be made into a separate book, but that each chapter could be written into as a separate novel because each chapter has a separate idea. In other words, you didn't tie them together well enough. They certainly aren't asking you to not use chapters. They're saying you need to rewrite the novel so there's a solid thread tying every chapter together.

They are asking for a bunch of changes, and making these changes would be a lot of work, but they all sound like logical changes to me, and if you like this publisher, why not give it a shot?
 

Libbie

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I agree - their suggested changes seem to be well thought out and they make sense to me. It might be a good idea to go with the changes and resubmit!
 

Gillhoughly

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Good lord, you hit the jackpot, kid.

Pay attention to their point about the premise being derivative of Charmed. If they spotted it so will everyone else. You can be "inspired by," but make sure you file off the serial numbers. There's a paranormal out there where it is all too obvious the writer crossed Angel with Spike to create the hero. She sold it, but readers are snickering.

Go with Young Adult if you can for your target audience. It's a hot and growing market as one of my buds will confirm; she's just begun her 4th book for a YA series.

This is a very valid and clear feedback, better than my vague three-word margin comments back in the day.

Rework your story and get a check. A modest advance from a small press still has tons more clout than putting up a dozen e-books.

Good luck!
 

johnzakour

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Pros: their advice is good and they seem sincere.

Cons: it will be a lot of work on your part, they don't pay an advance (according to their web site) so you aren't likely to make much money from this. (It's been my experience that more often than not, the higher my advances the better my books sell. But with one of my gift books I did go with a small print house with no advance and they did sell 10,000 copies of my book. So there always are exceptions.)

They do seem legit. I'm quite impressed with her critique and notes.
 
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amber_grosjean

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Thank you everyone! I really did like this house, even though it doesn't pay advance. I liked the idea of keeping the book with chapters. I think taking the other suggestions into consideration because I think my story is worth the hard work to keep it going so it will be accepted. I was very happy when this house asked for sample chapters and since they were the only ones who did request them, I think I want to give it a shot.

Hearing everyone share the same thoughts really helped me with my decision and I really thank everyone for that. This one is really my baby, my oldest baby and I didn't want to give up on it. I put most of my life into writing this one and as I grow older and learned more, it has improved 100%. If they still turn it down, at least I was able to turn my story into something better giving it a better shot in other places. I won't cross that bridge till I get there though. I want to stay positive lol.

Thanks again everyone! It means a lot to me that you helped me out.
Amber
 

amber_grosjean

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Ok, I made the changes. I sent the new chapters back and waited for comment. I even changed the synopsis. It appears they only read the synopsis which I know now wasn't written very well in the first place. I should have kept that the way I left it and just changed a little of it to show the changes I made in the manuscript.

Here is the new email. What should I do?


Hi Amber:
I have reviewed your material and at this time we are going to pass on the piece.
My editor has reviewed it and I am pasting her review into this email. I concur with her findings. She has made some suggestions which I think you will find helpful in seeing what publishers are looking for.
Best of luck to you, Anna
"I'm glad that the author incorporated the changes we requested. However, the change of person was unnecessary. Again the synopsis was "chock-full" of ideas and stories. I see where the author is taking this. It's too much for one book. It doesn't remind me of Charmed any more. One of the stories in the synopsis (the one without the sounds) is taken from an episode of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer. The Buffy episode was about the town of Sunnydale going completely mute. No one had the ability to talk to any one. The only way to communicate was through paper and pencil or if you were fortunate, sign language.

Other aspects of the update of this book is the change of person. I liked it third person better. It made more sense. With the change of person, the grammar has worsened.

At the end of the synopsis, I read how the father only wanted children to sacrifice to a cult. That's a little extreme even for young adults. Young people want their lives to be perfect: 2 parents, a house, cool friends and lots of fun. Not every child has that. I think a lot of children's authors try to address the angst of growing up. In the Harry Potter novels, the story was more about a boy's journey to who he really was. How many teens know who they are? He went through a lot of adventures and his friends died but he got through it. He was the classic orphan: no parents and who would love him? So to have dad actually try to sacrifice you is rather extreme. The father could be a child abuser or because he's a part of this cult, he's addicted to their way of life which calls for abuse of all those around him. It's whatever the author decides.

The whole story can be cut up into different books. All of the paragraphs to me represented a different story. Too many plots and subplots confuses the reader. My advice would be for the author to take one idea and develop it into a short story. It's harder to write a short story because there's a limit to how many words (10,000 words—and even that could be called a novella). The grammar must be worked on. It's very halting and lots of improper use of verbs and cases and tenses. I couldn't read the whole thing because of the grammar. I skimmed it and realized it was the same basic story.

Finally, the author should try and find a creative writing course or a writers group. She needs to see how a story is written. And also how the process works. Also, if she is into writing young adult fantasy, she should look into Madeline L'Engle. She recently passed away and her books will most certainly be prominently displayed at the local library or the bookstore. She wrote the classic A Wrinkle in Time. Or even Ursula K. LeGuin's the Earthsea novels. These two authors are most certainly in the local library. She needs to find a style that she likes. A good author will tell you that they're copying someone whenever they write and then add their own imagination to the process.

Also, the author needs to forget about the actual story and concentrate on themes. "





Anna M. Lascurain
Publisher
Darker Intentions Press, LLC
Thank you everyone! I ask you because you all have helped me before and I don't want to take this rejection personally even though I have a little. I put most of my life into writing this and people have read it, telling me they loved it and couldn't wait for it to be published.

Amber
 

Karen Junker

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Hi, Amber,

I think the most important thing to think about is how you can improve your grammar. Even if you have the greatest story idea in the world, it won't sell if you can't write it effectively.

I'm working on this myself. I have several books on grammar and I read parts of them each night to try and work on my own understanding of how it works.

I'm also getting a lot of input from my critique group, so they'll catch a lot of mistakes and let me know where I can make improvements. I'm learning quite a bit from catching their mistakes, too!

Good luck with your project!
 

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Hi, Amber.

That is a powerful sharp editor you're dealing with there. I wanted to talk (socially) with her just from reading the second letter. The Buffy knowledge didn't hurt either.

Give your changes some thought. Be slow and steady about it. You don't have to rush rush rush rush. Better to work it out into the thing it needs to be than to rush thorough for the sake of an editor.

I've never heard of this publisher either, but there are actually whole publishing companies in existence I've never heard of, if you can believe it. Based on that letter, though, I'm curious enough to go give them a look-over like John did.
 

amber_grosjean

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Thank you for your replies. I was a little hurt when I put all the changes they had requested and changed none of my writing only to find something else was wrong with the story. They said it was well written before but now seem to disagree with themselves after reading the synopsis.

I will take a break as I finish my other stories and get them sent out. Then I will return to my story and see what I can do to improve it. Should I change it to second person or keep it as the first person which is how its been since day one? I liked writing in first person because it felt more personal to me. Maybe it became too personal in the mean time.

Amber
 

Marian Perera

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This part confuses me.

A good author will tell you that they're copying someone whenever they write and then add their own imagination to the process.

Also, the author needs to forget about the actual story and concentrate on themes.

I'm not aware of copying someone whenever I write. I do have certain authors whose techniques and styles I admire, and I try to learn from them, but I wouldn't say I was copying them. Then again, maybe I'm just not a good enough author to do so yet.

And "forget about the actual story and concentrate on themes"? Does that mean that you're getting too caught up in the little nitty-gritty details and that you need to step back and look at the big picture?
 

Deirdre

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I'm quoting letter quotes, not Amber, btw.
It's harder to write a short story because there's a limit to how many words (10,000 words—and even that could be called a novella).

This has me really worried about this press -- they don't even know what a novella is! (17.5k - 40k, btw)
The grammar must be worked on. It's very halting and lots of improper use of verbs and cases and tenses. I couldn't read the whole thing because of the grammar. I skimmed it and realized it was the same basic story.

This confuses me -- first, there's too much stuff going on, now there's not enough?
She needs to find a style that she likes. A good author will tell you that they're copying someone whenever they write and then add their own imagination to the process.

No, they don't copy. Sheesh.
Also, the author needs to forget about the actual story and concentrate on themes.

I've read stuff where the theme came first, and it's usually awful. I vehemently disagree with this. Theme is something that emerges in the work. I don't agree with Stephen King on everything, but this is one where I'm right with him.
 

amber_grosjean

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Queen of Swords and Deirdre:

Thank you. You said some things that my hubby said. He said they didn't know what they were talking about. I did go into some detail but I used less detail in the beginning and they didn't read anything passed chapter 2, I used an introduction as a chapter, then chapter 1, and so on. I took out the chapter numbers in my rewrite and left the titles to show what that section of the story was about. I wanted to have something different. Yes, there is a lot going on in the story and yes, the MCs father is evil, but that doesn't mean YAs won't enjoy the story, not all of them anyways.

Thank you, you two. I will submit to more people (agents and publishers). And I kept both versions just in case.

Amber
 
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