I Should Know This! (But I don't?)

Scrawler · Aug 29, 2007

I feel dumb. I don't know why I don't know this.

Writing numbers, manuscript format:
three hundred and eighty dollars, not $380
two fifteen, not 2:15
five past eight not 8:05 (or eight oh five)
January thirteenth, not January 13th
two thousand and seven, not 2007?
seventeen dollars (and?) nineteen cents, not $17.19
Right?
What else?

Shady Lane · Aug 29, 2007

Devil Ledbetter will agree that this is definitely one of my downfalls.

OverTheHills&FarAway · Aug 29, 2007

Is this true? I KNOW I've read books with actual number numbers in them.

Maybe it was YA. You can get away with a lot in YA.

(Or are we just talking manuscripts, and they magically become numbers when it becomes a book?

Scrawler · Aug 29, 2007

I don't know-- maybe I'm completely wrong? Maybe it's one of those wrong assumptions I've held onto for years..??

maestrowork · Aug 29, 2007

One-fifth instead of 1/5.

One and a quarter instead of 1 1/4.

One point six three instead of 1.63.

1,303,534 instead of one million three hundred and three thousand five hundred thirty four.

2007 instead of two thousand and seven.

Two in the morning instead of 2 A.M.

2 A.M. instead of two A.M.

OverTheHills&FarAway · Aug 29, 2007

Does this mean there really are no rules?

Or do you have to use that common sense thing again?

lkp · Aug 29, 2007

And for those without common sense, there's always the Chicago Manual of Style.

Devil Ledbetter · Aug 29, 2007

Shady Lane said:
Devil Ledbetter will agree that this is definitely one of my downfalls.

Indeed. Yet, which one of us is published?

job · Aug 29, 2007

As lkp says -- this is not a 'right or wrong' thingum. This is a 'what style does the publishing house use?' thingum

Pull out a copy of Chicago -- they'll have it in the library -- and treat it as a really annoying and arbitrary bible.

benbradley · Aug 29, 2007

lkp said:
And for those without common sense, there's always the Chicago Manual of Style.

There are a truckload of manuals of style, and apparently they don't quite agree on where numbers should be written as digits versus being spelled out. In college (admittedly a technical school, with an English department covering only the neccesary classes for a bachelor of science degree) I had two English teachers that taught different things as far as handling numbers and "numerals."

Then there could be other rules that trump the number rules. You may be able to say (not sure, but let's suppose you can):
"Something terrible happened at 2:47AM."
but not:
"2:47AM was when it all started."
because you're not supposed to have a digit starting a sentence. This would be:
"Two forty seven AM was when it all started."
or you could reword it so the number doesn't start the sentence, as in the first example.

I've got about a dozen style manuals, I've dipped into them off and on, and someday I may actually go through a few. Unfortunately they're not as entertaining as "The Elements of Style," and I can't pick that one up without thinking of "Charlotte's Web."

"That's a big 10-4, Good Buddy."

Novelhistorian · Aug 29, 2007

job said:
Pull out a copy of Chicago -- they'll have it in the library -- and treat it as a really annoying and arbitrary bible.

Not so annoying or arbitrary once you get used to it. Having made my living as a copyeditor for many years, I did get used to it, and the more common rules seem so natural that I don't feel stupid using them.

Will Lavender · Aug 29, 2007

When the Crown copyeditor went through my book, she left most numericals in number form out of dialogue, but spelled out all numbers inside dialogue.

I had never heard that rule before, and I taught college writing for a half-decade.

The moral here? I'm daft.

The other moral? It varies, house to house.

pconsidine · Aug 29, 2007

There are some general guidelines for writing numbers, but even then, it depends on the context. For example, a guideline I remember is to write out numbers from one to ninety-nine, but for 100 and up, you can use numerals. Currency is usually written as numerals, but as benbradley mentioned, not if it starts the sentence (or is the sentence).

Things like that are decent general rules of thumb, but as always, it pays to follow the house style of wherever you're submitting.

Southern_girl29 · Aug 29, 2007

I use the AP style guide, because it's what I use at work. Times are numbers, not spelled out, so 2:45 a.m. Use numbers for 10 and above but spell out one through nine.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's the one I use because it's the one I'm used to. I think as long as you are consistent, though, it should be fine.

Novelhistorian · Aug 29, 2007

pconsidine said:
There are some general guidelines for writing numbers, but even then, it depends on the context. For example, a guideline I remember is to write out numbers from one to ninety-nine, but for 100 and up, you can use numerals.

Yes, but when a sentence or paragraph has a ton of numbers, rather than spell them out, you should probably use figures. And when figures applying to the same general category (meaning they count the same kinds of things) appear, you should use figures for all, whether they're below or above a hundred.

Confused? Many copyeditors are.

Scrawler · Aug 29, 2007

It's one of those things-- I was fine until I became aware of it. Once I started thinking about it, nothing felt right. Gack.

Chasing the Horizon · Aug 30, 2007

There were numbers in the Stephen King book I just read. I remember because I'd thought you had to write out all the numbers too. Now I'm going through and changing some of the numbers to numbers (mainly years, which look funny written out). Basically, I'm changing everything that is awkward to read as words into the numbers. I figure it's as good a rule as any (all the numbers under one hundred look fine written out anyway). The editor will probably change things no matter what I do, but I figure it's best to have it in a format I like just in case they don't change it.

Stijn Hommes · Aug 30, 2007

lkp said:
And for those without common sense, there's always the Chicago Manual of Style.

That manual is primarily aimed at non-fiction texts. Spelling out small numbers has its place, but things like time and money totals aren't one of those.

Namatu · Aug 30, 2007

pconsidine said:
There are some general guidelines for writing numbers, but even then, it depends on the context. For example, a guideline I remember is to write out numbers from one to ninety-nine, but for 100 and up, you can use numerals. Currency is usually written as numerals, but as benbradley mentioned, not if it starts the sentence (or is the sentence).

I agree.

Stijn Hommes said:
That manual [Chicago] is primarily aimed at non-fiction texts. Spelling out small numbers has its place, but things like time and money totals aren't one of those.

I also agree.

Use what seems most appropriate for what you're writing. Don't stress over it. This is a little detail, as far as such details go, unless you're writing for a specific assignment, in which case you can ask the editor for a style sheet.

BarbJ · Aug 30, 2007

I agree with Namatu's agreement.

Some publishers have their preferences, but they'll change it - it won't make or break the acceptance.

And please don't spell out time unless it suits the context. Sometimes 11:55 is better than five to noon, sometimes not, but eleven fifty-five drives me nuts. (I'm easily driven.)

OverTheHills&FarAway · Aug 30, 2007

Am I the only one who has a hard time comprehending numbers when they're spelled out?

One million three hundred fifty-four thousand six hundred four and fifty-one one-hundredths.

Gibberish? Even eleven fifty-five throws me for a loop!

preyer · Aug 30, 2007

11:47 was the minute i started this, it'll be eleven forty-nine by the time i'll finish on this day, august 30, two thousand seven anno domini.

dclary · Aug 30, 2007

When I was at Black Belt, I don't think we followed any specific manual of style (although I think our rules were based initially on the AP Stylebook).

Our number rules were:

1-10, spell out. 11+ use the numeric form UNLESS starting a sentence with the number. And in that case, try to rewrite the sentence to not have to start with a number.

Dates, times, use the number (11:30, August 13).

Decimals, use the number (2.6)

Fractions, spell it out. (one-fifth)

These are the rules I still use in my every day writing. I fully expect that my agent or editor will have copy monkeys smart enough to change those values if they have issues with that.

Namatu · Aug 30, 2007

OverTheHills&FarAway said:
Am I the only one who has a hard time comprehending numbers when they're spelled out?

One million three hundred fifty-four thousand six hundred four and fifty-one one-hundredths.

Gibberish? Even eleven fifty-five throws me for a loop!

Numbers are part of the language of math. Math = bad. Math = brain explosion.

Kate Thornton · Aug 30, 2007

Math = the exquisite language in which the physics of the universe is written

I Should Know This! (But I don't?)

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